ABU uniform for Civil Air Patrol

[Extremepredjudice]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

If they won't play nice, take away their big toys.

If they won't give O-rides, or help other squadrons, than that plane should go somewhere else.

[NCRblues]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

If they won't play nice, take away their big toys.

If they won't give O-rides, or help other squadrons, than that plane should go somewhere else.

Unfortunately, CAP in general has trouble telling SM's who volunteer their time "NO". So... if you can find a commander that is willing to take away toys and slap hands than great. Just be ready for when that commander resigns and walks away from the  BS or gets suspended over an IG complaint because he took the wrong persons toy away.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^Or if said commander honks off the "wrong" person somewhere at Group or Wing level and finds a 2B staring them in the face.

All this is symptomatic of greater issues within the organisation than just whether or not we're going to get ABU's, whether or not we're going to wear grey or blue...

Frankly, it comes down to what is our raison d'etre?

[AngelWings]

Weird. All threads not about uniform items go to uniform items, and threads about uniform items go to the whacky ducks whose wings of lead try to hold down our organization.

[fearedskill]

I think the whole ABU is a good idea. But the blue tapes must go! Professional uniform with funky looking name tapes just isn't right.

[LTC Don]

So what?  All three of those are Congressionally-mandated.  They are not optional.

Genuinely asking because I haven't seen it(them), but can you post the actual USC that specifies the specifics of these 'mandated' programs?

I know there are 'ambiguous' provisions in Title 10, and 36 but I haven't seen specifics naming the big three verbatim.

[lordmonar]

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C403.txt

Sec. 40302. Purposes

-STATUTE-
      The purposes of the corporation are as follows:
        (1) To provide an organization to -
          (A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in
        contributing their efforts, services, and resources in
        developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and
          (B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary
        contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

        (2) To provide aviation education and training especially to
      its senior and cadet members.
        (3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local
      communities.
        (4) To provide an organization of private citizens with
      adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national
      emergencies.
        (5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its
      noncombat programs and missions.

[ol'fido]

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C403.txt

Sec. 40302. Purposes

-STATUTE-
      The purposes of the corporation are as follows:
        (1) To provide an organization to -
          (A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in
        contributing their efforts, services, and resources in
        developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and
          (B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary
        contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

        (2) To provide aviation education and training especially to
      its senior and cadet members.
        (3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local
      communities.
        (4) To provide an organization of private citizens with
      adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national
      emergencies.
        (5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its
      noncombat programs and missions.

There you go folks. It's official ......

Fonzie Jumps the Shark

[flyboy53]

In fact, we are going to go away from a USAF style uniform altogether to comply with new DoD regulations about control of supply of digital uniforms.

I'm not sure that's really relevant.  We are not part of the DoD and wouldn't be receiving them from the Air Force anyway.  We would have to buy them from a third party vendor like we do now.  We would just be changing the pattern of the uniform.

Sorry, I disagree.

Don't be surprised if CAP moves completely into the relm of blue BDUs and jump suits like those courrently offered. There's really no reason to be wearing even the BDU -- other than it is coming free from rapidly exhausted DoD stockpiles and dumpsters. We don't do combat so wy an ACU?

Our ES mission has changed away from SAR and more photography and things like disaster recovery. The common uniform among those involved in those types of things is a blue BDU. It's already being worn, anyway.

[cap235629]

Our ES mission has changed away from SAR and more photography and things like disaster recovery. The common uniform among those involved in those types of things is a blue BDU. It's already being worn, anyway.

Uh, nope.  SAR is still a big part of our mission. 

Anyway we NEED a camouflage uniform when on the ground so we can hide in the bushes from those people we are searching for. Plus it makes so much sense to dress like a bush and then put on one of those ANSI class 2 vests and really look tactikewl!

[usafcap1]

I priced mine if we ever go ABUs it would cost me $307

[Luis R. Ramos]

USAF CAP-

If your BDU is getting old, there are places where you can buy a new one...



Flyer

[tsrup]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

If they won't play nice, take away their big toys.

If they won't give O-rides, or help other squadrons, than that plane should go somewhere else.

There's a lot more to it than that.

In order for a plane to be moved there has to be hanger space and someone willing to do maintenance at the field you are moving toward.  These places also need to have adequate liability insurance as well. 

A plane does not simple just get parked in a new location.


I do agree with the sentiment though.  In a perfect world that would be what happens, and for the most part it does.

[RADIOMAN015]

See:  http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

Specifically:
9.12.2.1. Uniforms indicate combatant status under the international laws of armed
conflict by distinguishing military members of the armed forces from civilians and other
noncombatants.

I don't think CAP members wearing the Airman Battle Uniform (or even the Battle Dress Uniform) in low light conditions, meet/would meet the provision of the AF regulation of distinguishing us as civilians/non combatants.

CAP's field uniform should be distinct with appropriate bright colors with no indication of attempt to conceal the member.  Neither current or proposed utility uniform meets this criteria.   Remember that we are non combat civilians.
RM

[manfredvonrichthofen]

See:  http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

Specifically:
9.12.2.1. Uniforms indicate combatant status under the international laws of armed
conflict by distinguishing military members of the armed forces from civilians and other
noncombatants.

I don't think CAP members wearing the Airman Battle Uniform (or even the Battle Dress Uniform) in low light conditions, meet/would meet the provision of the AF regulation of distinguishing us as civilians/non combatants.

CAP's field uniform should be distinct with appropriate bright colors with no indication of attempt to conceal the member.  Neither current or proposed utility uniform meets this criteria.   Remember that we are non combat civilians.
RM

have you not said that enough times already?  WE KNOW.

[Garibaldi]

See:  http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

Specifically:
9.12.2.1. Uniforms indicate combatant status under the international laws of armed
conflict by distinguishing military members of the armed forces from civilians and other
noncombatants.

I don't think CAP members wearing the Airman Battle Uniform (or even the Battle Dress Uniform) in low light conditions, meet/would meet the provision of the AF regulation of distinguishing us as civilians/non combatants.

CAP's field uniform should be distinct with appropriate bright colors with no indication of attempt to conceal the member.  Neither current or proposed utility uniform meets this criteria.   Remember that we are non combat civilians.
RM

have you not said that enough times already?  WE KNOW.

where is that thing...oh. here it is:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't think CAP members wearing the Airman Battle Uniform (or even the Battle Dress Uniform) in low light conditions, meet/would meet the provision of the AF regulation of distinguishing us as civilians/non combatants.

CAP's field uniform should be distinct with appropriate bright colors with no indication of attempt to conceal the member.  Neither current or proposed utility uniform meets this criteria.   Remember that we are non combat civilians.
RM

At the risk of going against the admonition of "stop engaging miserable posters..."

What do you get out of riding this same horse over and over?

I think most people in CAP know that "low-light/at-a-distance" dictum is at best absurd and ill-defined, and at worst unenforceable.

You are NOT going to get your wish of CAP looking like the Salvation Army, so why keep flogging it and pissing people off?

[Garibaldi]

I thought to myself earlier, after one of my "fights" with RM, that I could just do the sensible thing and block him, but, if I did that, I'd miss out on 75% of the posts here.

Who is up for putting ABU on the profanity list? I am! I've resigned myself to the fact that it probably will not happen in the near future, and the more that I look at the set I have in my closet, the more I wonder why I wanted them so badly.

Low light? Put all sorts of reflective stuff on your gear. If you go out in the field at night in nothing but your BDUs you're just asking for trouble anyway.

Distinctiveness? I think the bright blue-and-white is distinctive enough. I do NOT want to go through another uniform item change again like we did in the 90s with the maroon epaulets and the silver sleeve braid. The Air Force has agreed to the current uniform. I see no need to change it further to satisfy some whim.

Too many uniform options? We have the AF style, CAP corporate, 2 or 3 colors of flight suits, golf shirt, mess dress, and blazer. Sure, just a few more combinations than the Air Force, but look at the Army, with 4 different DRESS UNIFORM COMBINATIONS alone: Greens, whites, blues, and ceremonial. Am I wrong on this part?

Our uniforms are what they are, agreed upon by both CAP and the Air Force to provide distinctiveness and utility. I grant you that not every uniform is as utilitarian as it should be, but I've asked a few AD Army and Air Force personnel, and they have all said that the ACU and ABU are not as good as the BDU.

I would not be averse to staying in BDUs for a few more years. My love affair with the ABU, I sadly say, is over.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Greens are no longer around except for veterans like myself who Were in when they Were worn. I got lucky and was in during both greens and blues so I can wear either one on those appropriate days...

But the Army still uses every uniform they have ever worn, in ceremony of course, but everything from colonial reds to Vietnam tigers, the current and everything between. so... Yeah, the Army has A Lot of uniforms.

[68w20]

Greens are no longer around except for veterans like myself who Were in when they Were worn. I got lucky and was in during both greens and blues so I can wear either one on those appropriate days...

I hate to be that guy, but not quite:

"THE WEAR OUT DATE FOR THE ARMY GREEN SERVICE UNIFORM WITH ACCESSORIES IS THE 4TH QUARTER OF FY 2014."
http://www.army.mil/asu/alaract.html

While the ASU IS being issued as a clothing bag item to IET Soldiers, Greens are still authorized for wear.