ABU uniform for Civil Air Patrol

[shoresfinest]

At least JROTC is wearing them!  Nice to see a bunch of fat kids wearing ABU's outside of school, making fools of themselves at McDonald's.
It makes me think CAP is the Air Force's "oh ya them" organization or the forgotten project the crazy-eyed scientist left locked in his laboratory.

Is it any wonder why we are performing less AFAM's or loosing more Air Force Civilian employment positions at Liaison Region level than JROTC.

The Air Force knows the future is the JROTC program.  They will eventually move themselves as far as possible from CAP, until we collectively fold due to lack of support. 

It really is time to move CAP into the Parent Services uniform.  Enough beating around the bush and ask the Secretary for approval to begin transitioning.  It will begin costing members more money to stay in BDU's instead of transitioning to ABU's.

This is just another example of the Air Force (specifically CAP-USAF) doing nothing for the true volunteer Airman of this country!

oops! jrotc is allowed to wear them, and i would like an apology since i am in JROTC and i am not one of these "fat kids" i wrestle run track and play lacrosse and have most of my unit in my local cap squadron. CAP complained about JROTC and the ABU so we're on standby until august when AFOATS and CAP meet with the usaf about the issue

[RogueLeader]

^ a little punctuation is helpful, as I have no clear idea of what you were trying to say.

[SarDragon]

PM sent.

[AngelWings]

At least JROTC is wearing them!  Nice to see a bunch of fat kids wearing ABU's outside of school, making fools of themselves at McDonald's.
It makes me think CAP is the Air Force's "oh ya them" organization or the forgotten project the crazy-eyed scientist left locked in his laboratory.

Is it any wonder why we are performing less AFAM's or loosing more Air Force Civilian employment positions at Liaison Region level than JROTC.

The Air Force knows the future is the JROTC program.  They will eventually move themselves as far as possible from CAP, until we collectively fold due to lack of support. 

It really is time to move CAP into the Parent Services uniform.  Enough beating around the bush and ask the Secretary for approval to begin transitioning.  It will begin costing members more money to stay in BDU's instead of transitioning to ABU's.

This is just another example of the Air Force (specifically CAP-USAF) doing nothing for the true volunteer Airman of this country!

I am happy to know now that I am really a fat kid who makes a fool out of himself if/when I got to Micky D's. Just the other day I got a physical (which brought my doctor to tears over my sheer improvement of the past 2 years) and lost a huge portion of BMI, improved on my mile run from 15:00 to 8:00, and have improved my upper body strength a great deal. I must really be a fat kid who makes a fool out of himself because you say so. Do not generalize JROTC (which by the way is the common name for US Army JROTC, which I am a part of, you're looking for AFJROTC) as a bunch of fat kids.

There is a signifigant difference between CAP and AFJROTC, mission wise. We have three missions in CAP, which are CP, ES, and AE. AFJROTC is more centered on making better community citizens. Their chain of command is going to be different because of this. AFJROTC needs more liaison to help them complete their mission to standard (which is "Develop citizens of character dedicated to serving their nation and community"). We do not need all of what AFJROTC needs, and I bet their liasions have to kick and scream to get what they need to keep afloat just as much as we do, if not more.

If the USAF didn't want or like us, we already would have been dropped. Times are too tough to keep around unwanted programs. We provide a very valuable mission to the community, ES. They got benifits from the cadet programs inspiring more kids to enlist and commision into the USAF, and the AE classes suppliment this. Look at the USAFA, they have one out of ten people their being former or current members of CAP. If that doesn't speak for the worthiness of the CP, than I do not know what does.

I completely agree with you on the fact we need to be in ABU's ASAP. Also, we need to update the regs to allow us to wear the sand undershirts and sage green boots with the USAF style flightsuit, too. The more we wear the BDU's, the less of a click we make with the community has part of the USAF family.

[abdsp51]

I see a little animosity here.  From what I can see NHQ hasn't asked to wear them so give them the opportunity if it's not in the works already.  AFJROTC is a separate program and governed differently so to complain about them wearing ABUs and CAP not wearing them is a moot point.  ABUs are not cheap by any means at all and BDUs are way cheaper in the long run especially if you shop around.

[shoresfinest]

AFJROTC doesn't wear them. They are not allowed until AFOATS, CAP, and USAF uniform committee meet in august. Then AFJROTC will have the official go/no go on the ABU's

[biomed441]

The more we wear the BDU's, the less of a click we make with the community has part of the USAF family.

Some in the CAP community would actually prefer we don't make that click.  I'm not one of them, but there are quite a few who would love nothing more than to see any uniform connection we have with the USAF disappear.  That is a dead horse severely beaten though and probably not worth further discussion.

I will say this though, I've been confused more and more as "foreign" than USAF due to the use of BDU's...

[abdsp51]

Irregardless of whether or not one group or another wears what uniform.  AFJROTC and CAP play by separate rules and separate funding.  It's apples to oranges.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Irregardless of whether or not one group or another wears what uniform.  AFJROTC and CAP play by separate rules and separate funding.  It's apples to oranges.

Which is really, really senseless.

Some in the CAP community would actually prefer we don't make that click.  I'm not one of them, but there are quite a few who would love nothing more than to see any uniform connection we have with the USAF disappear.  That is a dead house severely beaten though and probably not worth further discussion.

Those you refer to - and they know who they are ("we're a flying ES club," "all ES, all the time," "the uniform makes us a bunch of wannabes") - are largely responsible for the destruction of Civil Air Patrol esprit de corps.

[EMT-83]

Those you refer to - and they know who they are ("we're a flying ES club," "all ES, all the time," "the uniform makes us a bunch of wannabes") - are largely responsible for the destruction of Civil Air Patrol esprit de corps.

I've never seen this. Not once, not ever.

[NCRblues]

I've never seen this. Not once, not ever.

Not to sound like I am trolling, but honestly, you have never seen this?

Never seen a Senior squadron that wants nothing to do with anything other than flying?

Never seen the unit that does ES all the time and pencil whips or ignores the CP and AE portion of CAP?

Never seen the Composite squadron that does CP all the time and never touches ES or AE (other than the required AE to promote)?

I really am just shocked if you are being honest. I can show you each squadrons within 30 minutes of my home. I was even told by one pilot at the local Senior squadron that "CP is optional, and if they ever make it not optional I would leave and never return. I am here to fly, that's all."

[lordmonar]

Those you refer to - and they know who they are ("we're a flying ES club," "all ES, all the time," "the uniform makes us a bunch of wannabes") - are largely responsible for the destruction of Civil Air Patrol esprit de corps.

I've never seen this. Not once, not ever.

What?  Is this sarcasm?  You have never seen the uniform haters....or you have never seen the poor seprit de corps? 

[EMT-83]

I have never seen the attitude that the organization is going to hell in a hand basket because of uniforms.

I have never seen the flying club mentality destroy the esprit de corps. A member of a senior squadron doesn't want to participate in CP? Sounds like he's in the right unit.

There are units that are heavily into ES, others into AE or cadet programs that never see an aircraft or an Elper. So what?

Sorry if you guys are so miserable. Most CAP members I know actually like the organization.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have never seen the attitude that the organization is going to hell in a hand basket because of uniforms.

I have seen it occasionally expressed right here on CT...with those who are proud of the AF uniform traditions labelled as "wannabes."

I have never seen the flying club mentality destroy the esprit de corps. A member of a senior squadron doesn't want to participate in CP? Sounds like he's in the right unit.

I have been a member of such a squadron, where non-pilots were treated as "excess baggage," and where members would BMW when asked by Wing to participate in cadet O-rides.  Not coincidentally, they would also BMW when taking part in an activity outside the unit calling for a certain order of dress.

There are units that are heavily into ES, others into AE or cadet programs that never see an aircraft or an Elper. So what?

So what?  All three of those are Congressionally-mandated.  They are not optional.

Sorry if you guys are so miserable. Most CAP members I know actually like the organization.

It's not a matter of "liking" or "not liking."  It's the matter that the organisation is increasingly dividing into the "corporate/ES" crowd and the more traditional membership.

[titanII]

That is a dead house severely beaten

Care to rephrase, Sir?   

[biomed441]

^^

What, you've never seen someone beat a dead house before 

Rephrased per your request. 

[lordmonar]

I have never seen the attitude that the organization is going to hell in a hand basket because of uniforms.

I have never seen the flying club mentality destroy the esprit de corps. A member of a senior squadron doesn't want to participate in CP? Sounds like he's in the right unit.

There are units that are heavily into ES, others into AE or cadet programs that never see an aircraft or an Elper. So what?

Sorry if you guys are so miserable. Most CAP members I know actually like the organization.

Oh.....okay...I agree with you.  I see the NO CP seniors and the CP only seniors and the polo only and the if you are not in a flight suit we don't want you guys.

But yes.....I agree with you that the members and organsiaiton are not being distroyed by it.

[lordmonar]

CyBorg....All three of those missions are mandated....for CAP to do......not mandated for each and every squadron and individual to do.

The USAF mission is has many many different parts....that cannot be accomplished by a single squadron and sometimes a single wing.

So....that argument is right out the door.
Squadrons come in all flavors and styles....it is up to the wing to make sure that our missions and customers are being properly served.

[Extremepredjudice]

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[SarDragon]

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It's clique, not click.

There are still GOB flying club squadrons out there. There's one in my group. It's one thing to not want to be involved on a week to week basis. It's entirely another to want to totally eschew contact with cadets, to the extent of not even wanting do do O-rides unless absolutely forced by the group commander.
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