Wearing you beret from NBB outside of NBB?

[SarDragon]

Grumpy's olde. That's the only excuse he needs. 

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

What will be done to the cadet who makes a false official statement (wearing items on uniform not earned is serious).  Airmen should have their hands slapped, NCOs demoted, senior cadets, 2b'd.

Let's look for training moments and uphold moral and ethical standards.

Make CAP work and a proud organization to work in.

My 2-cents

D2

[Garibaldi]

I had a cadet when I took over the DCC job in my unit in 2000 who absolutely REFUSED to wear his uniform properly, if at all. He went to NBB and got his beret and wore it everywhere, including meetings. I read the regs, found he was not in the right and told him so. He boldly told me to point it out to him, which I did, and he still refused to take the thing off, saying he was told by staff at NBB that he was authorized to wear it anytime. The regs, at the time, stated the beret would only be worn at NBB. This was one of many problems we had with him, and eventually his mother, who the CC fired for nepotism when she was DCC tried to bully her way through "for her son", tried to sue the CC and me for trying to ruin her child.

Anyway, this situation got way out of hand because no one wanted to try and work with him before I came along, and when I set my foot down, he rebelled in a major way. We eventually had no choice but to suspend him, and he never came back.

Cadets are all subject to our core values. Any cadet who makes false statements, falsifies records, etc. should be first counseled, and if that fails, suspended and/or 2b'd. Impressing on the cadet in question that the core values aren't just a bunch of words is a good start.

[Maj. Joe Mora]

Frankly, it depends on the wing.
the FLWG issued a supplement that in part reads;

"Line 4, Added: As authorized by National Board amendment to CAPM 39-1 dated August 2006 and
National Headquarters Interim Change Letter dated 12 March 2012, the Blue Beret will be worn only by
members who have completed the National Blue Beret Encampment and have proper documentation to
support such attendance. The Blue Beret may be worn with either the green BDU's or blue utility uniform
but is not authorized with any combination of blue Air Force style service uniform. Wear of the Blue
Beret is PROHIBITED when on a military installations within Florida Wing. "

my cadets aren't happy, as we meet on a USAF Installation...

[cpyahoo]

-YAWN-  More debate on hats and patches.  -SIGH-

[Майор Хаткевич]

Did you have to come 8 days after the last post just to say that? Seems like you have more of an obsession with these threads than those who post in them.

[Garibaldi]

Did you have to come 8 days after the last post just to say that? Seems like you have more of an obsession with these threads than those who post in them.

Let's see if he starts in on polo's and g/w's as the official CAP uniform. Then, and only then, will we know...if he's radioman reincarnated!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It doesn't matter if you earned your b___ b____ at NBB or wherever.

If, back at your home unit, your squadron CC tells you not to wear it, you don't wear it!

[Storm Chaser]

These debates about the Blue Beret are as old as I can remember; I joined CAP as a cadet back in 1987. We had one cadet that wore a  beret from NBB (i think they called something else back then) and others that wore berets that were locally approved. We never had problems with neither of them; the Blue Beret cadet went on to earn his Spaatz and later got a commission with the Navy and became a Naval Aviator.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. At one point NHQ decided they didn't want berets and they practically got rid of them. Then they brought them back. In recent years they went as far a approving them for use with the BDU outside of NBB. I hear issues about attitudes from those who attended NBB, which may be valid, but have nothing to do with a piece of headgear (those that think they're better than others would do so with or without the beret). Others complaint about how ugly it is; ok, don't wear it then. It's obvious (as have been discussed a million times on these forums) that activity commanders/directors can set what the uniform of the day is going to be. Period. Unit commanders can do the same.

But other than situations requiring a specific headgear, why does it matter that a cadet wears a beret that NHQ approves after they have completed NBB? In our squadron, we set a uniform of the day for every meeting as appropriate, but don't go out of our ways to ensure no one wears a uniform item that they're authorized to wear. I think it's silly that we spend so much effort arguing about Blue Berets. If it's such a problem, submit a uniform change through the appropriate channels. Otherwise, let's be professional and drop the drama. They've earned it (just as we've earned other insignias and uniform items), so they should be able to wear it within reason.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Rsalort-

You are skirting the issue.

The issue on this thread, is that the consensus is the Blue Beret, is not approved for wear at the squadron!

[RogueLeader]

They've earned it (just as we've earned other insignias and uniform items), so they should be able to wear it within reason.

Can I wear my Maroon Beret?  There's no doubt that I earned it.

[Extremepredjudice]

Rsalort-

You are skirting the issue.

The issue on this thread, is that the consensus is the Blue Beret, is not approved for wear at the squadron!

According to the 39-1 ICL it is authorized

[Storm Chaser]

Rsalort-

You are skirting the issue.

The issue on this thread, is that the consensus is the Blue Beret, is not approved for wear at the squadron!

With all due respect, you are mistaken.

The original post ask the following:

Are you allowed to wear your blue beret after NBB? Let's say I was to go back to Utah and wear in with my BDU's at squadron meeting... is that allowed?

And the simple answer to that question is yes. And as an added clarification, unit commanders and/or activities directors can set a uniform of the day that does not include use of the beret for operational, safety and/or uniformity reasons. It's not a matter of consensus. The rules are pretty clear.

[Storm Chaser]

They've earned it (just as we've earned other insignias and uniform items), so they should be able to wear it within reason.

Can I wear my Maroon Beret?  There's no doubt that I earned it.

So you decided to misquote me in order to get your point across. How original. You missed the part where NHQ approves the use of the blue beret with BDUs by those who successfully completed NBB. CAPM 39-1 also states that only blue berets are authorized. But of course, you already knew that. I also stated that they should be able to wear their berets within reason. If I was authorized to wear a CAP blue beret (which I'm not), I wouldn't expect to wear it to an encampment or other special activity where the uniform of the day clearly stated a different headgear.

[Luis R. Ramos]

RSalort, again, you are the one that is mistaken.

CAP regulations state they are not to be modified at the unit level.

39-1 does not authorize wear of the beret other than at Blue Beret.

Many people in CAP do not read the regulations, decide on their own there are holes on them or that they are outdated, and decide that they can issue changes.

Thus, we have commanders allowing wear of the beret, as an example, in New Jersey, Delaware, and Indiana, but not in Illinois, Maryland, New York. And the same for the NRA badge. Some Groups in Wing allow XYZ, other Groups do not.

And here we are, rehashing again something that should be so simple if everyone would read and follow the regulations as written.

39-1 says "you do not wear the beret," members should say "that is right, we wear the beret only for that activity."

No looking for "holes in the manuals."

End of discussion.

Flyer

[NCRblues]

RSalort, again, you are the one that is mistaken.

CAP regulations state they are not to be modified at the unit level.

39-1 does not authorize wear of the beret other than at Blue Beret.

Many people in CAP do not read the regulations, decide on their own there are holes on them or that they are outdated, and decide that they can issue changes.

Thus, we have commanders allowing wear of the beret, as an example, in New Jersey, Delaware, and Indiana, but not in Illinois, Maryland, New York. And the same for the NRA badge. Some Groups in Wing allow XYZ, other Groups do not.

And here we are, rehashing again something that should be so simple if everyone would read and follow the regulations as written.

39-1 says "you do not wear the beret," members should say "that is right, we wear the beret only for that activity."

No looking for "holes in the manuals."

End of discussion.

Flyer

Nope, you are wrong.. see item J on this recent ICL

http://capmembers.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf

[Eclipse]

Nope, you are wrong.. see item J on this recent ICL

http://capmembers.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf

And "by the regs", that expired in June.

[Storm Chaser]

As pointed out already, Interim Change Letter to CAPM 39-1, dated 12 March 2012, states the following:

The standard AF blue beret with the Blue Beret activity hat device may be worn with the BDU uniform after the completion of the activity.

What do you think "after the completion of the activity" means?

[Storm Chaser]

Nope, you are wrong.. see item J on this recent ICL

http://capmembers.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf

And "by the regs", that expired in June.

That's a different issue. Everyone knows that CAPM 39-1 is way overdue for an update.

[Eclipse]

That's a different issue. Everyone knows that CAPM 39-1 is way overdue for an update.

No, that's precisely the issue - that NHQ issues memorandums and ICLs which conflict with existing regulations, but
no one follows up, despite the fact that the regs on ICL expirations have always been very clear, and were updated last month.

CAPR 5-4 specifies that ICL's intended for permanent incorporation expire after 90 days.
You can't just ignore that fact and still point to the memo as in force.

I personally have no issue with using ICLs as necessary, but then I don't understand why, when they were updating 5-4 anyway, they
didn't change the verbiage to remove the expiration dates.  Clearly as recently as 3 weeks ago, NHQ concurred that ICLs do, in fact, expire.