Off-topic uniform rants

Started by LSThiker, May 07, 2018, 03:49:37 AM

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ColonelJack

I've said this before, and I'll say it again (and probably more times in the future), and I am not addressing any one individual:

I cannot understand why people join an organization like CAP - which wears uniforms and has a military-style grade structure - and then do every single thing that they can do to avoid wearing uniforms and possessing military-style grade.

If you really want to just get by with not even wearing the minimum uniform called for in our regulations - the regulations you agreed to when you joined - then why did you join in the first place?

Bob's right.  CAP needs members who are in for the whole program.

If all you want to do is fly SAR and/or traipse through woods on ES missions, aren't there far more suitable organizations to be a part of?  Ones that don't require (again with those pesky regs that you agreed to abide by when you signed up) you to feel as if you're playing military?

Good grief.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Luis R. Ramos

Saying that otherwise:

People move to live near airports, then complain about the noise. If you do not like airplane noise, why move near an airport?


Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Fubar

Quote from: ColonelJack on May 11, 2018, 04:21:21 PM
I cannot understand why people join an organization like CAP - which wears uniforms and has a military-style grade structure - and then do every single thing that they can do to avoid wearing uniforms and possessing military-style grade.

We're desperate for members. New folks wander in, hear about all the great opportunities CAP has to offer and then notice a couple of cadets marching around in some sort of military-style uniform. The prospective member raises an eyebrow and asks if everyone has to do that. The answer is, "Don't worry about it, all you need is a polo shirt and you'll just have to worry about flying and helping out in some sort of staff job that helps keep the unit running."

Most people I know that have joined CAP had some variation of that conversation (or joined a senior-only squadron which is essentially a flying club). That's why people join an organization like CAP without being interested in uniforms and military stuff. I don't think people like me are join and then immediately start scheming how to avoid the aspects of CAP we aren't interested in, we're told up front not to worry about it.

Once you're in and you start to run into people who joined specifically for uniforms and behaving as if they're in the military, it's easy to see where conflict arises. As long as there is a CAP polo shirt uniform, you'll have members who aren't interested in the military dress up.

As for the grade structure, since it doesn't actually mean anything (especially when someone can walk in from the military and be granted advanced grade with no CAP knowledge), people who aren't military aficionados are going to have a hard time caring about it since it doesn't directly affect their mission success (flying missions, serving as the squadron DO, preparing safety briefings, etc). If you want me to care about the grade structure, have it mean something.

QuoteIf you really want to just get by with not even wearing the minimum uniform called for in our regulations - the regulations you agreed to when you joined - then why did you join in the first place?

I certainly wouldn't advocate not wearing a uniform at all, even though they're only required during specific circumstances (flying for one). If I was required to wear something more than a polo shirt, I'd probably consider it, depending on what's involved, cost, and so forth.

QuoteBob's right.  CAP needs members who are in for the whole program.

I feel as though I am in for the whole program. I work part-time like hours on CAP and for the most part, it's fun or I wouldn't do it. I certainly adhere to everything this program requires me to do. I don't understand why there are people out there who don't think that's enough.

kwe1009

Quote from: Fubar on May 11, 2018, 05:58:18 PM
QuoteIf you really want to just get by with not even wearing the minimum uniform called for in our regulations - the regulations you agreed to when you joined - then why did you join in the first place?

I certainly wouldn't advocate not wearing a uniform at all, even though they're only required during specific circumstances (flying for one). If I was required to wear something more than a polo shirt, I'd probably consider it, depending on what's involved, cost, and so forth.

The minimum required uniform for Senior Members is the gray/whites or USAF-style blues per CAPM 39-1 so you are required to have something more than the polo shirt.  The polo combination is a utility uniform and is optional.

etodd

Quote from: kwe1009 on May 11, 2018, 06:58:36 PM

The minimum required uniform for Senior Members is the gray/whites or USAF-style blues per CAPM 39-1 so you are required to have something more than the polo shirt.


Yep.  I own it as required.

QuoteThe polo combination is a utility uniform and is optional.

Has been listed as one of the UOD at every event I've ever attended, including tomorrow's event where I'll fly 8 sorties.

All is good.  All is by the book. :)

Some folks' problem isn't with me, and those like me .... its with the Regs. If there are certain uniforms you just can't stand, then take it up the chain and get the Regs changed. Until such time as that occurs ... you're fussing at the wrong people.  Look up higher in the chain. ;)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on May 11, 2018, 08:01:19 PM
Quote from: kwe1009 on May 11, 2018, 06:58:36 PM

The minimum required uniform for Senior Members is the gray/whites or USAF-style blues per CAPM 39-1 so you are required to have something more than the polo shirt.


Yep.  I own it as required.

QuoteThe polo combination is a utility uniform and is optional.

Has been listed as one of the UOD at every event I've ever attended, including tomorrow's event where I'll fly 8 sorties.

All is good.  All is by the book. :)

Some folks' problem isn't with me, and those like me .... its with the Regs. If there are certain uniforms you just can't stand, then take it up the chain and get the Regs changed. Until such time as that occurs ... you're fussing at the wrong people.  Look up higher in the chain. ;)

Well, when you signed that membership application you agreed to follow all the regulations, not just the ones you like.

etodd

Quote from: PHall on May 12, 2018, 01:35:14 AM

Well, when you signed that membership application you agreed to follow all the regulations, not just the ones you like.

Did you not see where I said "all is by the book"?  I think you would be hard pressed to find me in violation of anything.
Go ahead ... try one. :)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

SarDragon

OK, I think we've worn this one out. I moved it in the first place because there was some residual benefit with regard to attention to detail. Since that even got off track ...
Click!
Dave Bowles
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