Active Member or Inactive Member?

[jeders]

Why should he have the bene3fits others do?

He pays his dues and keeps current. How is he doing any more harm than the member who comes to meetings once every two months, doesn't stay safety current, and is never available for a mission?

At least this guy is staying current. If he talked to the previous commander, try and get contact info for him from the previous commander. Re-engage him or help him find a unit closer to him.

[Luis R. Ramos]

HOW do we contact this member?

He IGNORES calls and messages sent to him through TWO telephone contacts and email! His address of record is CITY/STATE/ZIP so he cannot be reached by mail. By the way, his CITY is the SAME city our squadron meets.

Our commander has already transferred all Patron members. He wants to do the same with those that do not come to meetings.

[EMT-83]

000, in a heartbeat. Being a member involves more than sending in a check; running a squadron means every member does their share. The elderly guy/gal in a nursing home is obviously different.

We had a guy that didn't show for almost two years. Just like he fell off the face of the earth, except he renewed his membership. He called to complain after being transferred to 000, and was invited to meet with the membership committee to discuss his status. Still haven't seen him, still don't miss him.

[jeders]

HOW do we contact this member?

He IGNORES calls and messages sent to him through TWO telephone contacts and email! His address of record is CITY/STATE/ZIP so he cannot be reached by mail. By the way, his CITY is the SAME city our squadron meets.

Our commander has already transferred all Patron members. He wants to do the same with those that do not come to meetings.

If you have access to the Personnel Info restricted app in eServices, you will have his actual street address. Failing that, you can get his last known address from National, or any number of places including paperwork that may be in his personnel file. Then just go knock on his door.

But if your commander really wants to transfer him, I know of several squadrons that will gladly take any safety current warm body that they can get. If for no other reason than to keep there charter.

[PHall]

Lets see, this member is current in all of the required training. And is current on their dues.
So how exactly is he hurting your unit?

[Eclipse]

But if your commander really wants to transfer him, I know of several squadrons that will gladly take any safety current warm body that they can get. If for no other reason than to keep there charter.

Any Charter which cannot be sustained without "shopping zeros" should be retired.

Any Commander caught "shopping zeros" should be relieved immediately and the charter considered for retirement.

[flyboy53]

HOW do we contact this member?

He IGNORES calls and messages sent to him through TWO telephone contacts and email! His address of record is CITY/STATE/ZIP so he cannot be reached by mail. By the way, his CITY is the SAME city our squadron meets.

Our commander has already transferred all Patron members. He wants to do the same with those that do not come to meetings.

I don't understand all the hype about moving an individual to patron status when the individual maintains membership and remains current. This is clearly an issue between the current and former commanders -- not you -- and you shouldn't be debating it in this forum when your current commander only has to pick up the phone, so to say, and get input from the former commander who put the member there or higher headquarters.

Afterall, we've only herd your comments, not your commander's. Even then, your commander only has to seek the advice of those commanders up the food chain. Maybe some other unit would be more than happy to have this person, and then where are you?

Respect the individual's privacy and leave him or her alone; or are you on some sort of a witch hunt to make a point? I just don't understand what's the big deal.

If you have an issue with it, then become the unit commander, take action and then take responsibility for your decision.

[Critical AOA]

Flyer333555, There could be all sorts of reasons why someone might do his or her best to stay current but not attend meetings and I realize that my words might be a bit repetitious of what others have written.

Maybe they are very ill and must stay at home but have the hope that they will regain their health and be able to resume their prior activities.

Maybe their work schedule is such that they cannot attend the meetings.  It might come as a surprise to some but not everyone works M-F dayshift banker's hours.  I attend far less meetings and activities than I would like for this very reason.  Perhaps I should be forced out??

Maybe he is a single dad with very young children and finds it impossible to get out and do things.

Since he was a former cadet, maybe he is at college in another state or in the military and the address you have on file is that of his parents.

There are probably dozens of other reasons as well but the fact is that this person obviously likes CAP and wants to remain involved at some level.  He is paying his dues and taking courses.  No small thing for many folks.

I must ask however, what is your stake in this issue?  What position do you hold in the unit that has put you on this mission that you are on to dig into this member's business?

I do agree that he should be more forthcoming (if possible) and that the current commander should be able to know his status / situation.  You did write that the former commander allowed him to become a virtual member. Do you know why?  Does your commander?  Perhaps your current commander, not you, needs to find out the particulars and then either let it go as is or seek out wing's advice. 

Leave it to you chain of command.

[Eclipse]

The reason is irrelevant - either you're participating or you aren't, and all those excuses you list are the exact reason for putting people into Patron status - they basically "freeze" in place while relieving the burden from themselves and their units from paying attention to them, and when they come back, they have to be re-checked by the FBI.  That's a good thing.  As mentioned, sometimes people go inactive for reasons we need to be aware of.

Why is it a big deal?  For starters CAP-USAF identified the issue of "real' manpower strength as an issue several years ago.  This isn't AOPA or the AMA where your check and a sticker on your rear window mean you're "active".

The only value an empty-shirt member provides to CAP is financial, and there are several ways they can continue that support without being counted as a full member.

Active members have access to any number of resources and facilities, CAP and military.  As a commander, the last thing I want is someone I've never met wandering around with an active ID and my being responsible for his CAP activities - because that's the deal - despite many commanders and members acting otherwise, Unit CC's are supposed to be held responsible for the actions of their members.

And "current" doesn't mean you took the "Heat Stress" safety briefing in January - just because you take a monthly, or annual safety test doesn't make you "current" in regards to either national or local ops by a long shot.  CAP is such a moving target that when you miss a meeting or two you're out of the loop.

As to the "Why do you care internet arguments?"  It would appear he's in a position to have discussed this with his CC and is looking for how others handle this.

[RiverAux]

Just what is the argument FOR keeping him in the unit?

[Garibaldi]

Just what is the argument FOR keeping him in the unit?

Might be the difference between a unit turning from a squadron to a flight. I dunno. I don't get into that kind of stuff, even after 20 years, but I remember my old unit in WIWG going over MMLs and trying to decide if we should turf some folks who were living out of state and not contributing anything but money to NATHQ in the form of dues. The deciding factor was that if we kept more than 12 members on the roster we would retain squadron standing and not go down to flight status. Which was bad, apparently. I could be wrong on the specifics but that's what I remember.

[Eclipse]

Might be the difference between a unit turning from a squadron to a flight.

What's the point of that?

Again, shopping zeros to maintain a charter flies in the face of the core values.

[lordmonar]

I don't often agree with Eclipse....but when I do.

It is six of one, half dozen of the other.

Keep him or lose him.....it depends on your commander.

We have several "empty shirts" in our unit......but we know them and we know why they are not as active as the "active" members.  The all answer the e-mail and they all stay current and make appearance at the squadron when asked and able.

If you really don't know this guy....don't see him....and he refuses to communicate with you......then it is time to look into it and take the approprate action.

Bottom line...if he belongs to your squadron.....then he is your squadron commander's responsibility.   

[Private Investigator]

it appears this is a former cadet who contacted the previous commander. She allowed him to be a "virtual member," she calls it. This member IS NOT deployed, is living IN THE STATE. Does not contact the unit, does not participate except to take classes or stay safety current. Why should he have the bene3fits others do?

Well mystery solved? You do have his personnel file?

I think let things be. You still have no ideal what his health issues are or what his circumstances are.

[Eclipse]

You still have no ideal what his health issues are or what his circumstances are.

How is "health or circumstance" relevant?

[Private Investigator]

Eclipse, if you were struck down with a serious health issue and have to be in a nursing home for two years, for example. I would hope your brothers and sisters in CAP would not transfer you to 000 or 2B you. JMHO.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, if you were struck down with a serious health issue and have to be in a nursing home for two years, for example. I would hope your brothers and sisters in CAP would not transfer you to 000 or 2B you. JMHO.

Assuming that happened, my Commander would be fully aware of the circumstance and in contact with my family, if for no other reason then to get all the fancy issued toys I have.  The last thing I or they would be concerned about would be CAP.  It's doubtful they would even continue to pay for my membership, which would be fine.

Once I awoke in the future with cybernetic implants and the strength of 10 men, I would have no issue if the put me in patron status for the time I was
locked in the basement at Area 57.

This business of "I got super busy / sick / other..." "...so I dropped off the radar what's it to you?..." Doesn't fly.

[lordmonar]

Eclipse, if you were struck down with a serious health issue and have to be in a nursing home for two years, for example. I would hope your brothers and sisters in CAP would not transfer you to 000 or 2B you. JMHO.

I see your concern......but really.......do we assume that everyone who keeps safety current, pays his dues and refuses to answere e-mail, phone calls and mail as just too sick?
0000
Failing to respond to communications is grounds for 2b.  If you just want the card and get the volunteer......well we got patron status for that.

As I said before....there are circumstances where you could/should keep an empty shirt......but if you don't know him and he refuses to communicate......000 or 2b are options that should be considered.

[Garibaldi]

Once I awoke in the future with cybernetic implants and the strength of 10 men, I would have no issue if the put me in patron status for the time I was
locked in the basement at Area 57.

Is that CAP's super-secret research facility?

[Eclipse]

Is that CAP's super-secret research facility?

Need to know.

I will say there's a lot of gray signs in the hallways.