New Summer Powered Flight Uniform Voted Down

[Pumbaa]

Look at how people have dressed say over the last 40+ years... Men used to be in suits as a standard attire back in the 50's and early 60's, even at home they had lounge wear...  then it switched to just ties for men, still at home the men would wear a tie... Ozzy and Harriet... then open collar in the 70's, polo's in the 80's and soon there after we have morphed into t-shirts and backwards ball caps.

Looking at the trend in society we have become a more leisure oriented, comfort/ play society.  This is transcending into the professional ranks.

I work at what was once called IBM Federal Division.. Look up how IBM'rs used to dress. It was well known.. WHITE shirt!!!! tie, polished shoes etc....  Now (as Lockheed) we are business casual for the most part.  Even the surviving IBM plants have changed too...

I wear an open collar oxford shirt, once in a while a tie.  Only upper management wears suits.  Though at Lockheed, our young management classes are telling these college grads to wear a suit and tie so they can look professional...  So they are encouraging a certain look to be brought back...

Overall I see the attitude expressed here as a reflection of what has happened in our society, both public and business.  it's really a selfish/ 'me' oriented attitude.

I still say that the outward appearance is a reflection of the inward condition.  People *DO* judge a book by it's cover (right or wrong).  We want to appear professional as others appear professional.

[stratoflyer]

^Couldn't have said it better myself. Basically, "Wear your attitude!"

Never, not once in 6 years of flying have I ever flown with shorts, or 'jesus-sandals'. Because when I'm flying, my attitude is way different than when at the beach lounging around. And I choose to reflect that on my person by dressing accordingly, thereby letting others who see me know that I mean business--that when I assume the duties and responsibilities of PIC, I am serious. But then again, aviation is my career.

If you own your plane and are taking a VFR flight over the coast to go to a BBQ fly-in, hey, be safe and wear what you will. Nothing wrong with that. But if you are participating in an ES mission, look the part and send out the message that you are here with a reason to accomplish said mission.

I am actively trying to make an investment in a flighsuit because I feel that this is the standard and that I should show my seriousness and dedication and 'wear my attitude'. I could continue wearing my grey's, or go a little bit further and go for the golf shirt (even the name says it GOLF ).

There are those among us who view what we do differently, and believe a discussion about shorts is really serious. There are those of us who would rather comfort. There are those of us who make excuses.

I hate the blue nametapes on the BDU's, but I follow rules and I make sure that they look as sharp as hell. And I make sure there is only 1/8" around rank and badges. The key is to look professional.

I would really like to see more discussion and ideas on things like CP or AE working toward solutions in CAP, not just merely meandering around a mute point such as uniforms.  Hey fellers, after a while, it gets tiresome. Ask how to wear it properly, where to buy it, and help others improve the image of CAP.

But please, no more begging to go on a ES mission looking like this:

[jb512]

So because I like to be comfortable when I fly (like when I was at NESA), I am now part of a flying club, don't like water, have my ass stuck on a couch, have the professionalism of Donald Duck, and need to grow a pair?

I salute your professionalism. 

We return your salute.

And you don't have to iron your flight suit, but don't leave it in a ball on the floor for two months between flights.

[Flying Pig]

I can say if CAP showed up on a search with any other professional SAR organization, and a pilot and observer climbed out of their plane in khaki shorts, you would openly hear the laughter.  At work or CAP, I wear a flight suit.  Even on 113 degree days in August.

I even lightly press out my flight suit for work and crease the sleeves and polish my leather boots. Nobody sees it but me and the guys I fly with.

As far as pilots refusing to fly when its hot?  Maybe later in the day if you have a few sorties under your belt already.  Drink water and stay in shape.  If you come out to a search and your a chain smoker and drink 10 cups  of coffee for breakfast, then you may have some issues.   When I fly, if it gets hot, Ill just climb up to 5-6000 feet for a while, open the windows and let everyone cool off.  Then, back down we go.

[SilverEagle2]

When I fly, if it gets hot, Ill just climb up to 5-6000 feet for a while, open the windows and let everyone cool off.

That crazy. My TPA at my airport is 5400 MSL. I can tell you that here, it is still hot there.

I have to climb to 9500 to get any relief.

Yesterday I flew into my meeting in the polo and slacks and was fairly comfortable. It was 90 degrees OAT at altitude. Seems OK to me.

I just finished up my AF Flight Suit for mission wear. We'll see what that feels like soon.

I agree that shorts have no place in a professional organization that is open to public view. Especially given the missions we fly.

[Flying Pig]

Ummmm....OK, so climb to 9500 then.

[SilverEagle2]

Just noting the interesting difference is all. 

[davidsinn]

Ummmm....OK, so climb to 9500 then.

I think you need to get 4-5k AGL for the difference. The Earth radiates heat.

[Flying Pig]

OK....ENOUGH ON THE ALTITUDES!

[Smokey]

I was at NESA this summer and I was the only one in a green zoom bag. I just can't see wearing anything other than that while representing CAP-USAF Aux. while flying.

Was I hot, yeah, but I sucked it up.

I've been in a flightsuit during space shuttle landings on hot tarmac in the middle of summer at Edwards AFB...which is in the Mojave desert.  EVERY flight crew member from AF, Army & Navy wore a flightsuit.  Not one was wearing shorts and a shirt.  I was in a Blackhawk helicopter (where I fly with the AirBoss) on the tarmac, in the sun, for almost 3 hours prior to the landing. Then I've spent an hour or more hovering at 1,000 agl in the same heat.  Trust me, there is no air conditioning in a Blackhawk.

My crew, all of whom were in flightsuits, were in the GA-8 at 2,000 agl.  I didn't hear one complaint from them-true professionals.

In my full time job I wear a uniform that has wool pants, a ballistic vest and a gunbelt.  Am I hot...sure ( I did it both in Illinois [heat & humity] and California temps over 100) But I didn't whine about it and tell the chief/sheriff I wanted shorts. And my agency requires those with arm tattoos to wear long sleeve shirts year round. Those are wool shirts also.  (Glad I don't have tattoos )

So folks, we are a professional organization that represents the Air Force. Shorts, sneakers, etc are for flying clubs.  Not professionals.

[SJFedor]

I was at NESA this summer and I was the only one in a green zoom bag. I just can't see wearing anything other than that while representing CAP-USAF Aux. while flying.

Was I hot, yeah, but I sucked it up.

I've been in a flightsuit during space shuttle landings on hot tarmac in the middle of summer at Edwards AFB...which is in the Mojave desert.  EVERY flight crew member from AF, Army & Navy wore a flightsuit.  Not one was wearing shorts and a shirt.  I was in a Blackhawk helicopter (where I fly with the AirBoss) on the tarmac, in the sun, for almost 3 hours prior to the landing. Then I've spent an hour or more hovering at 1,000 agl in the same heat.  Trust me, there is no air conditioning in a Blackhawk.

My crew, all of whom were in flightsuits, were in the GA-8 at 2,000 agl.  I didn't hear one complaint from them-true professionals.

In my full time job I wear a uniform that has wool pants, a ballistic vest and a gunbelt.  Am I hot...sure ( I did it both in Illinois [heat & humity] and California temps over 100) But I didn't whine about it and tell the chief/sheriff I wanted shorts. And my agency requires those with arm tattoos to wear long sleeve shirts year round. Those are wool shirts also.  (Glad I don't have tattoos )

So folks, we are a professional organization that represents the Air Force. Shorts, sneakers, etc are for flying clubs.  Not professionals.

You obviously didn't notice the other half a dozen people wearing their zoombags every day as well, myself included. I wore the shorts/shirt combo one day, just for the novelty of it. And I KNOW not everyone in the GA-8 at NESA was in flight suits, as neither of the GA-8 pilots that were supporting the advanced school EVER wore anything other then the blue/grey polo combo (picture day) or the shorts/shirt combo.

Not trying to shoot you down or anything, just making sure you were at the same NESA I was instructing at.


Anywho...
If you guys enjoy doing the neat things we currently get to do (supporting shuttle launches/landings, DEA/counterdrug, etc etc) we're able to do that mainly because we're "professional volunteers" (yes, like military intelligence). I know if I was someone from the state or feds deciding whether or not I wanted CAP's support, i'd be much more willing to request it from them if I saw them in flight suits and service dress then a bunch of people who look like they just came off the golf course.

[Gunner C]

I was at NESA this summer and I was the only one in a green zoom bag. I just can't see wearing anything other than that while representing CAP-USAF Aux. while flying.

I know if I was someone from the state or feds deciding whether or not I wanted CAP's support, i'd be much more willing to request it from them if I saw them in flight suits and service dress then a bunch of people who look like they just came off the golf course.

:clap:

When I see the pictures of the WW2 aircrews getting ready to fly anti-sub missions, I don't see ANYONE in civies - they were ALL in uniform.  They were proud to wear the uniform and proud to serve.  They flew, they fought, and they died wearing their nation's uniform.  If we could only recapture that.
GC

[CadetProgramGuy]

[FW]

The reasons the NB overwhelmingly voted against the proposal for the "summer uniform" alternative:

1.  No ones legs looked good enough.
2.  No one wanted to spend the $200+ for "Air Jordan's"
3.  No one wanted to be asked to help with the luggage at FBO's
4.  No one wanted to stick to the upholstery
5.  Can't put charts in socks.  Need pockets.
6.  Not enough pockets
7.  Can't we get more pockets?

[Major Carrales]

I was reading a June 2008 article in one of the professional aviation magazines while I was waiting for an Airport Manager to help address an ELT.  It was talking about surivial skills for aviators.  One issue it pointed out was that pilots don't prepare to crash.  Thus, they get in an aircraft in a teeshirt and then end up crashed in some desert (where the cold and exposure gets them at night and burns get them by day)

So, it would seem that the "safety" issue cuts both ways these days.  And if you need documentation...ta-da!!!


Plane & Pilot Magazine  - June 2008

Getting Out Alive 
Survival experts show pilots what to do when the propeller stops spinning
By Marc C. Lee
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/proficiency/pilot-skills/getting-out-alive.html

Few topics in aviation are as popular as that of survival after a forced landing. Since the tragic September 2007 disappearance of adventurer Steve Fossett, the topic has been the subject of countless hangar flying sessions and pilot's lounge discussions.

As aviators, we share a unique experience in that we operate over moderately long distances and fly over a wide variety of landforms. Even those of us who routinely fly out of well-populated areas sometimes traverse relatively remote expanses. Still, few pilots adequately plan for sudden exposure to Mother Nature, and a true survival situation could be as close as your next flight.

We spoke with two experts on the subject of survival. Tim Smith is the founder of Jack Mountain Bushcraft & Guide Service in Wolfeboro, N.H. He's a survival instructor, licensed guide, trapper and hunter with experience in Canada, Alaska, Florida and the upper Northeast. Tim is also a survival consultant for the Man vs. Wild television show.

Les Stroud is the star and survival expert on the Discovery Channel's popular Survivorman television series. He has more than 20 years experience as a naturalist, outdoor adventurer and instructor in survival, white-water rafting, sea kayaking, hiking, dog sledding and winter travel. His documentary film, Snowshoes and Solitude, about the year he and his wife spent living in the remote Boreal Forest of Northern Ontario, has won numerous independent awards.

The Reality Of Being Found
The FAA keeps statistics on how long it takes search-and-rescue (SAR) teams to find a downed aircraft. These figures are a good indication of how long a person would need to survive before help arrives. The important thing to remember is that these statistics are only averages. Many pilots have had to wait far longer than the times listed. The data also reflects certain flight characteristics, such as ATC knowing your last-known position with accuracy and the presence of a working ELT in your plane.

Current FAA statistics for length of time from last-known position (LKP) to rescue are: 13 hours for an IFR flight, 37 hours for a VFR flight with a filed flight plan and 42 hours for a flight with no flight plan. The Fossett disappearance shows that even 42 hours could be optimistic given difficult or obscured terrain and lack of a signaling device.

Surviving the forced landing is, of course, the first hurdle. The velocities and altitudes involved in flying an aircraft are such that you may survive, but be at least moderately injured with broken bones, lacerations and/or burns. According to survival experts, your ability to survive with serious injuries starts to diminish after the first 24 hours. Thus, the clock is ticking.

Physiology & Survival
The needs of the human body are surprising. According to survival instructor Smith, food is a low priority. "The average human can go 40 days without eating without ill effect," Smith says. "In a situation where two people of identical build are put in a survival situation where one completely fasts and the other eats sporadically, the one who fasts will exhibit better performance and live longer than the one who eats little bits."

Smith further explains that, "You don't really need to eat anything because the ratio of carbohydrates to calories burned changes when your body enters a fasting state." If you can eat, then fat and protein are key. "Fat allows your body to generate warmth, and protein gives you strength," says Stroud. "Meat is the best source for both. You have to be careful, though, because rabbits have no fat and it's possible to actually starve your body by only eating rabbits."

Both instructors point to water as your body's critical need. "You won't survive more than maybe three or four days without water," says Stroud, "and by day three, your mind starts going." Smith adds, "As you dehydrate, your brain and thinking change. Because our bodies are basically bags of salt water, lack of water causes serious effects long before you actually die."

Priorities
In the immediate aftermath of a forced landing, there are priorities that must be set. Survival experts agree that establishing a "survival" state of mind is one of the most crucial elements of staying alive.

Stroud says that calming down is the first thing he advises once a person is free of the aircraft. "The first priority is to calm yourself down and then deal with first aid. Too many people panic and it kills them," he says. "You have to establish a mind-set that you'll get out of this and stay rational."

Roger Storey is a survival instructor with the FAA's Civil Aeromedical Institute. Storey agrees that attitude is key: "One thing is for certain—without a will to survive, there can be no survival. If you don't have a desire to survive, there's no equipment made that will help you survive."

Stroud suggests four simple priorities: "First, assess your situation. Are you in immediate danger? Second, find out what you have with you, in your pockets and in the plane. Third, begin addressing your basic needs of water, shelter and fire. Finally, think about what you have available for signaling for help."

Smith stresses basics: "There are three things it takes not to die: 1) Keep your body's core temperature in the very narrow range needed to function properly; 2) Drink enough water; 3) Get enough sleep to remain rational. I can't overstate the importance of maintaining core body temperature and getting enough rest." Smith instructs pilots to use the fuselage of the airplane for shelter and to be inventive in their thinking: "Look at everything around you. Use everything there."

Psychologically, all survival experts agree that fire is your best friend. "Fire is an unbelievable psychological boost in keeping you alive," says Stroud. Fire is important enough that he suggests carrying three fire-making tools at all times. "It keeps the bogeyman away," he laughs. Smith adds that, "Boredom can also be a problem, so performing regular tasks helps."

Real Survival Gear
Pilots are especially vulnerable because they don't plan for survival situations when planning a flying trip. They can go from sitting in a warm cockpit wearing a T-shirt to being in an open desert or frozen mountainside in minutes. What gear should pilots carry?

Expert opinions vary, but certain items top their lists. Smith recommends a basic approach: "The key item for pilots to carry is a top-quality, down sleeping bag. Two are even better. These answer the need for shelter and warmth and, if you include water and start a fire, you can survive for a long time with only that."

Stroud doesn't hesitate to start his list off with a quality belt knife. He says, "A good knife or multi-tool with a serrated back is worth its weight in gold."

Both Stroud and Smith have strong opinions about survival kits. "Most survival kits on the market are designed to make a profit, not save your life," says Stroud. Smith adds, "Most survival kits are garbage. Make your own."

"My survival kit starts in my pocket," explains Stroud. "If you survive the crash, then what you have in your pockets will stay with you." Recommended kit items include a signaling mirror and whistle, compass, multiple fire-starting tools and, most importantly, a good first-aid kit. "First aid will be the first thing you attend to after the forced landing," says Stroud.

"Those 'space blankets' are not blankets," adds Stroud. Both men explain that these silvery Mylar sheets are useful for reflecting radiant energy or signaling by reflecting light. "But Mylar isn't a blanket," says Smith.

Prepare Early
Finally, all of our survival experts recommend that pilots prepare early by gaining knowledge before they're forced down in an emergency.

Storey explains preparation steps, "The first is to admit to yourself that 'it can happen to me.' The next step is to prepare both mentally and physically. By improving your knowledge and physical capabilities, you'll also increase your confidence. The more informed you are about your own capabilities, and about the climate and terrain over which you fly, the easier it will be to decide which equipment to take aboard your aircraft."

Both Stroud and Smith suggest that pilots "stick to the basics." Stroud concludes, "Survival isn't about building fancy shelters and tying complicated knots. It's about getting out alive."

Survivorman Stroud agrees and adds that, "Of course, after day four or five, your energy will take a dive." Stroud comments on the fact that the face of hunger changes as your body gets used to a lack of food. "Because you're in a panic stage, you won't be hungry. If you don't focus on or think about the lack of food, your mind will go into an almost Zen-like state. It's different from normal hunger."

[Pumbaa]

Good post Sparky...  I'm going to copy your P&P article to another thread to discuss survival gear that would fit in the pockets of a flight suit.

[Major Carrales]

Good post Sparky...  I'm going to copy your P&P article to another thread to discuss survival gear that would fit in the pockets of a flight suit.

That was a well written article that I think all CAP pilots can benefit from.  The idea of a 24-hour pack for aviators has been ridiculed to me in my presence, it was cited as being a GROUND TEAM item.  Still, it seems like a good pack should be a part of a pilot's gear to begin with.

If you can forward me any article you write on the matter, I should like to run it in my Almanac.

[PHall]

Good post Sparky...  I'm going to copy your P&P article to another thread to discuss survival gear that would fit in the pockets of a flight suit.

That was a well written article that I think all CAP pilots can benefit from.  The idea of a 24-hour pack for aviators has been ridiculed to me in my presence, it was cited as being a GROUND TEAM item.  Still, it seems like a good pack should be a part of a pilot's gear to begin with.

If you can forward me any article you write on the matter, I should like to run it in my Almanac.

Small problem with your 24 hr pack for pilots. How much does this thing weigh and what are you going to leave behind to compensate for the added weight?

[jimmydeanno]

Small problem with your 24 hr pack for pilots. How much does this thing weigh and what are you going to leave behind to compensate for the added weight?

My 24 hour pack weighs just under 12lbs with the water and food. [Just conducted a repack after a weekend long GTM training with my squadron.]  Did I mention that my flashlight is a 4 D-Cell Maglite?

[Major Carrales]

Good post Sparky...  I'm going to copy your P&P article to another thread to discuss survival gear that would fit in the pockets of a flight suit.

That was a well written article that I think all CAP pilots can benefit from.  The idea of a 24-hour pack for aviators has been ridiculed to me in my presence, it was cited as being a GROUND TEAM item.  Still, it seems like a good pack should be a part of a pilot's gear to begin with.

If you can forward me any article you write on the matter, I should like to run it in my Almanac.

Small problem with your 24 hr pack for pilots. How much does this thing weigh and what are you going to leave behind to compensate for the added weight?

Weight and balance is key...no...critical.  Obviously you don't take a huge item with you.  That's crazy. Well, not really...if your point is more to discredit a good idea at any cost than try to make it work.

Here is what you should have...

flashlight
orange vest (for signaling)
raingear
first aid kit
rope
duct tape
mirror
Maps (sectional or atlas)
compass
gloves
whistle (optional)
canteen (bottle of water)
Multitool/leatherman

Now, that's not going to "break the weight and balance" now is it?  Most of that stuff should be in the aircraft anyways.

If, for some reason, this proves to be "too much weight," one might consider keeping themselves off the aircraft until which time 20 or 30 pounds could be excised from the body.