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Worst SAREX experience

Started by SDF_Specialist, September 20, 2007, 07:04:04 PM

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Senior

A winter practice mission(that is what we called them WIWAC).
Problem was a real mission was going on way north of St. Charles,
Missouri.  We had no aircraft or many Seniors to help out at mission
base or in the field.  We sat around sharpening knives and sleeping
all day long.  Boring but made new friends from other squadrons.

Cool Mace

So want to hear how the weekend went?

The worst one I've EVER been to!!!! No lie. Everyone there was mad as HELL! Mission base thought it would be a good idea to pack up and leave while myself(with a ground team) and another ground team where still out in the field.

Not sure how this one was *supossed* to be better then the rest?
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

a2capt

I would have to imagine that Ops Normal communication calls would have made this a non-event.

Even at 60 minute intervals, they can't have decided within the inside of an hour to pack up and be gone by the time the next one would have rolled around.


(Well, unless it was a mini event.. perhaps.. )


But leaving your teams out of the loop? The shame of it..

Cool Mace

We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Thunder

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"

Good lesson learned here. Base staff didn't follow their procedures, but the mistake was compounded by a ground team not following theirs (unless your wing's lost comm procedures allow for a sortie to continue after failing to communicate). The missed 30-minute check is for the IC to know when to look for you, but the minute a deployed unit fails to communicate, it should begin the lost comm procedure, which should have at the end RTB.

I'll add to this that the other lesson learned is when we are dismissed from a mission, continue to monitor if you have a radio. You just never know.

Cool Mace

Quote from: Thunder on August 19, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"



Nope! I asked the IC where another one was(the one I was looking for was moved). He knew we where gone. He knew I was going back to my GT and we where to go on with the mission. There where only a few people back at mission base when my team got back, one being my driver waiting on me, then a few others packing and signing people out.

A quote from my sister comes to mind. "Stupid, stupid people..."
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Irishrenegade

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 06:58:10 PM
Quote from: Thunder on August 19, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"



Nope! I asked the IC where another one was(the one I was looking for was moved). He knew we where gone. He knew I was going back to my GT and we where to go on with the mission. There where only a few people back at mission base when my team got back, one being my driver waiting on me, then a few others packing and signing people out.

A quote from my sister comes to mind. "Stupid, stupid people..."

Yea to add to this...I was trying to get some aircrew stuff done and ended up doing Comm on Sunday when all of a sudden everyone was packing up and i was like um negative ghostrider we still got a GT an hour out but the member (not mentioning names) refused to listen and said I am packing up we are done. This is a HUGE EPIC NEVER DO and it happened twice this past weekend...freaking rediculious.

Back to the air crew stuff...we had 9 aircraft...Saturday we had 6 flights in the morning and about 3 later that night...Sunday we had about 6 aircraft just hanging out on the flight line all day...When I was back in NY...Sarex was awesome...This IC we had needs to be removed from said position.
SWR-OK-113
Assistant Deputy Commander of Cadets|Information Technology Officer
Is laige ag imeacht as an gcorp í an phian


NY Bred and now in OK

EMT-83

You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?

Cool Mace

Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?

Working on something right now... I want to make sure I have everything together before I say or do anything. I've seen people get in trouble because they didn't have all the info together. Now granted, I do, but I just want to make sure to play my cards right. Cadets are always wrong for some reason...
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 21, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?
... Cadets are always wrong for some reason...

No, cadets just say things wrong sometimes. So do SMs, so do I more times than I'd like to count. Sometimes, it's how you're saying something that counts.

Cool Mace

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 22, 2010, 09:30:27 AM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 21, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?
... Cadets are always wrong for some reason...

No, cadets just say things wrong sometimes. So do SMs, so do I more times than I'd like to count. Sometimes, it's how you're saying something that counts.


Not in this WIng. I can pull out a reg and prove them wrong, but somehow, I really am. You have no Idea how bad it is.

But, I do agree that a lot of the time both sides can do that. No one's perfect, and I don't expect them to be. Just a little respect ever now and then would be nice.
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Trung Si Ma

Quote from: Steve Silverwood on October 11, 2007, 04:47:55 AM
Quote from: Trung Si Ma on September 21, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
Alaska, late 70's, 6 Day search until target located, ME said they died on day 5.

I think I remember that one, Don.

I also remember when we got called up during the 1979 encampment to do a ground search for a missing kid, but IIRC we didn't get authorized for that one because it was considered a law-enforcement body search rather than a SAR.

Hey, Steve.

Remember the Joe Reddington, Sr search?  Lou Stoudt and I landed on the lake he claimed to be at for a biological break and he sure wasn't there.

I sure miss that 185 on wheel-ski's  ;D
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it

Titan 25

We were operating in -20 to 10 degree weather for about 3 days I believe. We had to sleep on the ground and I received mild frost bite on the toes of my right foot. Didn't tell anyone about it. :P
C/2d Lt Daniel K. Driskill
Flt. Commander
PHANTOM SQUADRONUTAH WING
MEMBER OF THE 2010 NATIONAL CHAMPION ROCKY MOUNTAIN REGION DRILL TEAM!!

Ron1319

I couldn't believe it when I showed up to the group SAREX last year having 3-times requested UDF training for our cadets who I was clear had no prior UDF training.  I promised to get them thru the pre-reqs.  They had no UDF training planned, so after wasting the first two hours, we finally got someone who could do UDF sign-offs to take us out on a "practice mission" that the IC had thrown together minutes before.  At least we got some sign-offs.

We tried to get Scanner/Observer pre-req sign-offs a few months ago and the supposed trainer just told us to show up some time when they were doing training and go flying with him.  He started off lecturing about the importance of search and rescue and the different between a ground team and an air crew.  For some reason, my insisting that he was talking to three Spaatzen and that I had been a GTL as a cadet and had my observer wings didn't keep him from going on about his intro to search and rescue story.  He insisted we didn't need pre-reqs and everyone who went flying with him got training.  Steam rolled out of my ears as I had made significant changes to my schedule that week to be able to be there.

Let's just say I'm not happy with the state of ES training in Norcal.  I've managed to get UDF signed off, but I still feel pretty hopeless when it comes to finding someone to actually do S/O sign-offs the way I envision them.  Our pilot in the squadron is finally able to do the sign-offs, so we can train ourselves and have him do the sign-offs, now.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

Fubar

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 10, 2010, 07:24:01 PMOur pilot in the squadron is finally able to do the sign-offs, so we can train ourselves and have him do the sign-offs, now.
Getting qualified people within the squadron to sign-off on training is critical. Expecting group or wing to provide adequate training and instructors just doesn't seem to work.

EMT-83

A SAREX isn't the time to show up and expect to be trained. You should make arrangements for training to be completed in advance, and use the SAREX for practical skill demonstration and evaluation.

tsrup

Back in '06 I went to a SAREX as a Cadet.  Our squadron didn't send a GTL with us.  We got to Mission Base and signed in and went to our staging area to be assigned a ground team.  Other cadets from other squadrons were assigned to their respective GTLs while we sat in the staging area and waited... and waited... and waited.  I (being the oldest, and the acting Cadet Commander of our squadron at the time) went back into mission base and brought it to their attention that we were never assigned a ground team, to which I was informed that we'd be receiving tasking shortly.

So we waited some more.  Then a couple Senior Members came up and told us they had a task for us.  And they did.  We were tasked to wash an airplane. 
Not impressed.

With that task complete, we were then tasked to police the area around mission base and collect any trash we could find.
Still not impressed.  But we did our diligence and formed a search line and yelled find every time we found a piece of garbage.


After some more talking to the base staff, and finally my own squadron commander (who was there, but was in an aircraft the entire day and unaware of our predicament) we were assigned to a ground team for the last sortie.  It was an ELT search so we used our DF and another cadet from my squadron augmented with a handheld scanner.  We picked up the signal quickly, and tried to track it down, but were told to stop what we were doing and do a line search for the ELT, in the opposite direction of where our bearings were pointing us.

When it was all said and done, I typed up an AAR, submitted it to my squadron commander (who was also my flight instructor at the time, so we had spoken frankly on many occasions) and AFIK he shared my sentiment and took steps to resolve the issue.

4 years later, as a SM and actually running SAREX's, I couldn't even fathom asking a group of cadets to be on garbage detail, or to wash aircraft, or other menial chores for no reason other than to have them do something.
Paramedic
hang-around.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: tsrup on December 10, 2010, 09:44:46 PM
but were told to stop what we were doing and do a line search for the ELT

I really, really hate it when people do that. DF training should teach that - finding the ELT with an L-Per or other device. Doing a line search for a training ELT is a wasted training opportunity...

Ron1319

Quote from: EMT-83 on December 10, 2010, 09:17:53 PM
A SAREX isn't the time to show up and expect to be trained. You should make arrangements for training to be completed in advance, and use the SAREX for practical skill demonstration and evaluation.

I made arrangements to receive training for my cadets at that SAR-Ex, it just seems that I have a different definition of training.  So we're clear, I had everyone who attended signed off as UDF trainees before the event.  We would have been fine with practical skills eval and demonstration, it just took more than two hours to get pointed in that direction with a trainer who had shown up not expected to be doing any training.  Sorry, but you can't blame that on me.

I also don't think you realize just how few trainers there are in this area.  We're working on becoming those trainers.  This one year requirement is garbage, though, especially as there is no experience requirement, only time.  I need to escalate a waiver to the 1-year requirement to sign off for UDF tasks for our cadets based on my previous ES experience but I have too much else to do right now to focus on that.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

JWilson

Well my worst SAREX experience was at the same time my best one. In that things going wrong and certain pilots being unable to spot a crowd of cadets frantically waving orange safety vests and flashing away with signal mirrors while flying low over the locatio we gave them only made things more interesting. In all, the 8-hour mission i was on was rather enjoyable and i got most of GTM3 signed off as well.

P.S. to the pilots that nearly guided us onto an abandoned-looking farm with pitbulls in the backyard, that blue tarp you saw there wasn't the target