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Worst SAREX experience

Started by SDF_Specialist, September 20, 2007, 07:04:04 PM

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SDF_Specialist

What is your worst SAREX experience? Here's mine:

I was in Southern Ohio on a TREX. We had one member who always brought food to cook no matter where we were. After a long day of setting up radio equipment, and testing it, this member made some ham and eggs. All he had was a hot plate because the stove at the fire department we were at didn't work. The ham came out ok, but the eggs were super runny. I eat some, and went back to my work with the GBD. After about an hour, I wasn't feeling so hot. I kept working thinking that I was just a little tired, and over doing it. I was wrong. I ended up going out back, and tossing my dinner. I felt horrible the rest of the evening. I decided to just go home. A four hour drive, and I don't remember any of it.
SDF_Specialist

jimmydeanno

#1
New Years Eve, 1997.  Our squadron had the only GT in the Wing so we got called to search for an ELT about 2 hours away.  That wouldn't have been so bad were it not for the fact it was 2000 already and -20 outside.

So, with the weather, normal CAP Garb was left at the wayside, BDUs with thermal undergarments, cold weather "jumpsuit" and boots rated for -60, aircrew ECW "mittens", one of those old fiberglass ECW masks and a nice wooly hat.

Of course our search lead us to the airport, 10 minutes away from where one of the wing's squadrons met... ::)

We did the ramp search on foot which took about 20 minutes, but in that cold...brrrr.

So, by the time we got back it was about 0230 - Yay New Years!

---sorry, after I typed this I realized you said "SAREX."---

I wouldn't exactly call it a SAREX, but a winter bivouac with an ES theme.

About the same time as above only sometime in February or so, we have a winter bivouac.  Well, it was REALLY cold that weekend getting down to -30 at night and just at around 0 during the day.

Of course you get the cadets that don't bring the right/enough equipment or decide that their jungle boots are fine for 4 ft of snow on the ground in 0 degree weather.

It was originally going to be an outdoor sleeping environment since our squadron acquired some ECW sleeping bags - it was going to be "super cool."  Well, "cool" it was and luckily for us we were using a Boy Scout camp for our exercise and were able to go into one of the cabins.  Even with a fire, I'd would estimate the temperature came up to about 10 degrees.

I remember us having to go out in 10 minute intervals for firewood because it was too cold to stay out longer than that.

We probably should have canceled the event early, but most of us had a good time and it gives us something to talk about to this day.  My old squadron commander is probably reading this shaking his head, but I had fun even though it was probably the worst SAREX experience I've had.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

SDF_Specialist

What a way to ring in the new year. Looking for an ELT at an airport.
SDF_Specialist

♠SARKID♠


SDF_Specialist

Another nasty SAREX experience I had. This one was not too long ago. I signed in at the mission base. When I was asked what I will be training in, I said that I would be training for Scanner/Observer (since I had taken the class the year before, but never saw a plane until that SAREX), but I would like to train as CUL until I can get a flight. I was signed in as "AT LARGE". By the end of the day the next day, I was told that the IC wanted to speak to me. It came to my knowledge that the IC was unaware that I wanted to train for S/O. Needless to say, I didn't get credit for anything. I was so mad, but I finally saw where the mistake was and shrugged it off as a lesson learned.
SDF_Specialist

SoCalCAPOfficer

The worst SAREX I experienced was my first one.  It started out great, but within  a couple of hours we found out two of our CAP Pilots were lost.   The SAREX turned into an actual mission and unfortunately before the day was out the wreckage was found with no survivors.   That will always live in my memory as a bad day.
Daniel L. Hough, Maj, CAP
Commander
Hemet Ryan Sq 59  PCR-CA-458

Trung Si Ma

Alaska, late 70's, 6 Day search until target located, ME said they died on day 5.
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it

SDF_Specialist

Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on September 21, 2007, 10:13:51 PM
The worst SAREX I experienced was my first one.  It started out great, but within  a couple of hours we found out two of our CAP Pilots were lost.   The SAREX turned into an actual mission and unfortunately before the day was out the wreckage was found with no survivors.   That will always live in my memory as a bad day.

My condolences to you sir. It's never easy losing a comrade.
SDF_Specialist

SDF_Specialist

Quote from: Trung Si Ma on September 21, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
Alaska, late 70's, 6 Day search until target located, ME said they died on day 5.

It's the effort that counts too. Just because you couldn't find the victim alive doesn't mean you didn't try.
SDF_Specialist

Stonewall

Growing up in FL and never seeing snow, I show up to my first FTX in National Capital Wing.  I'm cool, I'm a bas a$$, cuz I'm active duty infantry and can handle anything.  So it's January and cold, no biggie.  I make a high speed poncho hooch perfectly.  I use my German sleeping bag I bought as a cadet from Kaufmann's West, an Army/Navy out of New Mexico.  Back in the day, that place was the bee's knees.

Anyhoo, I never had to worry about a temperature rated sleeping bag, being from Florida and only being in the field at Ft. Benning during the summer, into the fall.

So here we are, sleeping my butt off, and it's time to wake up.  I wake up in what seemed like 2 feet of snow.  I'm Billy Bad A$$ and I'm freaking out because it's the first time I've seen snow.  Everything is soaked and frozen.  I suck it up, drive on, and shrug it off as if it were nothing.

Then, I attempt to drive out of the training area in my rear wheel drive Ford Ranger, still with Florida tags.  I fish tail that bad boy right into a ditch.  First time waking up in snow, first time driving in snow.  Once we got my truck out, I actually had a cadet drive my truck home because I was too inexperienced to do it myself.  Talk about swallowing my pride.
Serving since 1987.

Steve Silverwood

Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 20, 2007, 07:04:04 PM
What is your worst SAREX experience? Here's mine:

Fairbanks, Alaska, had to be 1981 or 1982.  Mid-winter, probably February I think.  Crystal clear skies, looked like great flying weather -- except when the sky is clear up there, it gets cold!  (Cloud cover == greenhouse effect == warmer.)  When I say "cold" in Fairbanks terms, we're talking at least 30 below -- sometimes as much as 70 below!

Started the operation at about 0600 but due to the cold (and other cluster-<deleted> related foul-ups) we couln't get anything launched before NOON!

And the day just went downhill from there....

I don't remember if we passed or failed or were just excused due to the <deleted> weather and retested later....
-- //Steve//

Steve Silverwood
kb6ojs@arrl.net

Steve Silverwood

Quote from: Trung Si Ma on September 21, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
Alaska, late 70's, 6 Day search until target located, ME said they died on day 5.

I think I remember that one, Don.

I also remember when we got called up during the 1979 encampment to do a ground search for a missing kid, but IIRC we didn't get authorized for that one because it was considered a law-enforcement body search rather than a SAR.
-- //Steve//

Steve Silverwood
kb6ojs@arrl.net

Cool Mace

ALmost every SARX I've been to in the last 5 years have been bad. For some reason, people think you have to do something 10+ times to be signed off on it. I'm pretty sure I know how to do a search line after the first if not second time I do it. I almost never go to them anymore.

There is one this weekend, and people have told me that it's going to be good.... I'll wait and see.
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

bosshawk

I hear you: I rarely go to SAREXs for some of the same reasons.  But, in all fairness, a SAREX is an opportunity for lots of people to learn how to perform some function involving a search.  If everyone knew their jobs, flawlessly(HUH?) there would be no reason to have a SAREX.  They are training exercises.

That said, my experience has shown that they are also chances to practice being miserable.  For some reason, some CAP folks seem to feel that making the experience as difficult as possible and as unpleasant as possible will make participants better at search.  I don't think that it works that way.

Hope that your experience this weekend is not a downer.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

Spaceman3750

Quote from: bosshawk on August 11, 2010, 12:00:25 AMThat said, my experience has shown that they are also chances to practice being miserable.  For some reason, some CAP folks seem to feel that making the experience as difficult as possible and as unpleasant as possible will make participants better at search.  I don't think that it works that way.

I agree with you, except that I think those that plan the types of exercises you mentioned follow the "Train for the worst, hope for the best" mantra a little differently than the rest of us do.

There's not a whole lot of good to be done in hiding an ELT halfway into the 2' visibility forest behind the heavily hangared flight line... The flight line is going to be just as much of a challenge without beating your people to hell for the sake of "training".

SarDragon

Successfully finding a practice beacon in a difficult location is satisfying. Using the lessons learned makes the less difficult ones even easier. There should be lessons learned from each situation. If there aren't, then the folks running the SAREX aren't doing it right. The difficult situations are designed to test knowledge and increase skills.

YMMV.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

DC

My first was also the worst. I wanted to do GT stuff, but somehow ended up working the radio at mission base. That would have been fine, I was interested in comms too, except most of the teams decided to use cell phones to talk directly to the GBD or IC rather than bother with the radio. So I basically just sat there and did nothing all day. Every time I tried to get relief I was assured someone would be down 'shortly', but it never happened. Turns out I was the only cadet at mission base with an ROA card, and none of the SMs felt like babysitting the radio, so I got stuck with it. That was in 2005, and I haven't been to one since.

Cool Mace

Please don't get me wroung in my last post. I like to make things a little harder then it should be at times. But, I don't think we need to make people turn off an ELT 5 times to make sure they know how and to be signed off on it. There are people in this Wing that think you have to do everything at least 5 times if not more an order to know how to do it. Some cadets may take longer to learn, but for the most part it's easy. We just got a new Wing ES Officer, so I hope things will go better now... I'll just have to wait and see what the weekend holds for me. I'm just going to see how it goes. I don't have any training I want to get done. I'll help anyway I can though, I don't like to just sit there and do nothing.
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

wuzafuzz

I enjoy working hard at SAREX's.  Sometimes though, when you are treated like toilet paper, that's another story.

My "horror" takes place shortly after learning it was official, I was headed for divorce and feared a related financial catastrophe.  I decided to opt out of the SAREX and stare at the walls or something.  The night before the exercise I receive a mayday call explaining all the senior members were unable to attend so 14 cadets were counting on me to get them to the mission base.  I was the only person left who could drive our CAP van.  Rather than disappoint a bunch of cadets I agreed to help them out.

When I retrieved the CAP van I discovered the last driver had not topped off the tank.  Grumbling, I topped off the tank on my own dime.  The next morning, SAREX day, I meet all the cadets at the local airport.  I realize I forgot my field jacket and the cold wind is picking up...my fault, but I have to make it right.  So a van load of cadets get dragged 10 minutes back to my house.  I feel like an idiot.

After 1 hour drive, we arrive at the general briefing about 10 minutes late thanks to my jacket retrieval.   :(  Ground branch director chews me a new one, deserved, but handled poorly.  2 hours later we are tasked with a mission.  Real, not practice beacon.  Cool.  We receive our briefing from GBD and the assigned GTL (I am a freshly minted GTM3).  We will caravan in three vehicles, 1 hour, back to where we came from.  Beacon is believed to be on an airport.  We are told to be quick about it.  I round up my cadet crew and we saddle up in a few minutes and sit in van for half an hour waiting for the rest of the team to get ready.  Grrr.

The GTL and the remainder of the group finally get ready and declare we will convoy to target airport via route "A".  GTL makes wrong turn within 2 minutes of mission base.  Repeat 2 more times.  The clock is ticking but this guy will not accept advice.  2.5 hours after receiving tasking we arrive in the suspected vicinity of the ELT signal.

As we approach the airport we pickup a definite signal spike.  As we enter the airport the signal declines.  We inform the GTL, and he insists we thoroughly check the ramp and hangar rows because the ELT "is ON the airport."  We are denied permission to pursue our search from off the airport, even to determine whether the signal is coming from somewhere else.  I caution the GTL it could be an off airport crash and we cannot assume this is on airport nuisance beacon.  About an hour goes by as we search all over the airport with no success, but several bearings point off airport.  An airport maintenance worker keeps providing helpful hints and assumptions, which we chase down with complete disregard for the ELT signal. 

Finally, I show the maintenance guy where the signal is pointing, off airport.  He replies, "Oh! That's where the aircraft junkyard is!"
  Now we are finally permitted to work the signal.  We arrive at the junkyard and narrow the signal down to a portion of the yard, but from outside the fence.  We call the owner and obtain permission to enter.  He adds that he place airplane wreckage in a large dumpster the day prior.  As we enter the yard, the GTL allows a swarm of people, mostly cadets to assault the dumpster like 6 year olds on an ice cream truck.  I cry foul, indicating that 1: the signal is pointing elsewhere, and 2: a dumpster full of shredded scrap metal should not be dove into like a swimming pool.  Cadets exit dumpster and senior members dive in.  I obtain permission to follow the signal.

We find the ELT in a partially disassembled airplane about 200 feet away from the dumpster.  Woohoo!  Real mission = Find ribbon so everyone is happy.

Later we are assigned another sortie, for a practice beacon.  We find it fairly quickly.  The GBD allows us to separate from our GTL and return directly to our home airport, shaving several hours off our drive.

Fill up van's gas tank and submit receipts and paperwork for reimbursement.  Also submit to squadron for reimbursement for the portion of gas purchased to cover shortfall from previous driver.  Complete paperwork for cadets' find ribbons and one my me, myself, and I.  First one!  :-)  Within a few days I am informed the SAREX staff didn't pull a separate mission number for the real ELT.  No Find ribbons.  DCC protests saying it was a real mission and the cadets earned it.  They get their find ribbons.  No go for me, kind of stinks but that's not why I joined CAP.  Motor on. 

On the bright side, we learned a lot that day.

4 months later I still have not been reimbursed for $61 in gas we burned that day.  Double grrr!  Ironically that is the same amount as my CAP membership renewal due this month.  I paid my renewal yesterday, apparently I am a glutton for punishment and I have lots of spare time (but not money) in my post-divorce reality.   I'm still pursuing reimbursement for the fuel to cover the SAREX I tried to get out of!
"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

EMT-83

My first SAREX was interesting. I flew up to the mission base as cargo; I wasn't yet working on air crew qualifications. I walked into the radio room to see what was going on, and the radio operator said something about his relief finally showing up and he ran out the door! No briefing, no notes, no nothing.

After a while, I figured out what was going on, got a quick briefing from someone (don't even remember who at this point), and pushed on. It ended up being a great day. So my bad SAREX experience turned into a good one – met some great people that I now work with on a regular basis, and quickly became part of the team.

Senior

A winter practice mission(that is what we called them WIWAC).
Problem was a real mission was going on way north of St. Charles,
Missouri.  We had no aircraft or many Seniors to help out at mission
base or in the field.  We sat around sharpening knives and sleeping
all day long.  Boring but made new friends from other squadrons.

Cool Mace

So want to hear how the weekend went?

The worst one I've EVER been to!!!! No lie. Everyone there was mad as HELL! Mission base thought it would be a good idea to pack up and leave while myself(with a ground team) and another ground team where still out in the field.

Not sure how this one was *supossed* to be better then the rest?
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

a2capt

I would have to imagine that Ops Normal communication calls would have made this a non-event.

Even at 60 minute intervals, they can't have decided within the inside of an hour to pack up and be gone by the time the next one would have rolled around.


(Well, unless it was a mini event.. perhaps.. )


But leaving your teams out of the loop? The shame of it..

Cool Mace

We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Thunder

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"

Good lesson learned here. Base staff didn't follow their procedures, but the mistake was compounded by a ground team not following theirs (unless your wing's lost comm procedures allow for a sortie to continue after failing to communicate). The missed 30-minute check is for the IC to know when to look for you, but the minute a deployed unit fails to communicate, it should begin the lost comm procedure, which should have at the end RTB.

I'll add to this that the other lesson learned is when we are dismissed from a mission, continue to monitor if you have a radio. You just never know.

Cool Mace

Quote from: Thunder on August 19, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"



Nope! I asked the IC where another one was(the one I was looking for was moved). He knew we where gone. He knew I was going back to my GT and we where to go on with the mission. There where only a few people back at mission base when my team got back, one being my driver waiting on me, then a few others packing and signing people out.

A quote from my sister comes to mind. "Stupid, stupid people..."
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Irishrenegade

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 06:58:10 PM
Quote from: Thunder on August 19, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 19, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
We tried calling. When COM base shut down we used cell phones to call in, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. What makes me more mad is I had to run a mile back there to get a new ELPR(after ours died), and they where still there... But then they thought it would be a good idea to leave... Right after I was there!

Not that its right, but maybe someone saw you running in and putting down an ELPR and thought "Hey those guys are back in"



Nope! I asked the IC where another one was(the one I was looking for was moved). He knew we where gone. He knew I was going back to my GT and we where to go on with the mission. There where only a few people back at mission base when my team got back, one being my driver waiting on me, then a few others packing and signing people out.

A quote from my sister comes to mind. "Stupid, stupid people..."

Yea to add to this...I was trying to get some aircrew stuff done and ended up doing Comm on Sunday when all of a sudden everyone was packing up and i was like um negative ghostrider we still got a GT an hour out but the member (not mentioning names) refused to listen and said I am packing up we are done. This is a HUGE EPIC NEVER DO and it happened twice this past weekend...freaking rediculious.

Back to the air crew stuff...we had 9 aircraft...Saturday we had 6 flights in the morning and about 3 later that night...Sunday we had about 6 aircraft just hanging out on the flight line all day...When I was back in NY...Sarex was awesome...This IC we had needs to be removed from said position.
SWR-OK-113
Assistant Deputy Commander of Cadets|Information Technology Officer
Is laige ag imeacht as an gcorp í an phian


NY Bred and now in OK

EMT-83

You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?

Cool Mace

Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?

Working on something right now... I want to make sure I have everything together before I say or do anything. I've seen people get in trouble because they didn't have all the info together. Now granted, I do, but I just want to make sure to play my cards right. Cadets are always wrong for some reason...
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Cool Mace on August 21, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?
... Cadets are always wrong for some reason...

No, cadets just say things wrong sometimes. So do SMs, so do I more times than I'd like to count. Sometimes, it's how you're saying something that counts.

Cool Mace

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 22, 2010, 09:30:27 AM
Quote from: Cool Mace on August 21, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 21, 2010, 03:06:18 AM
You both included this in your AAR's and sent them up the chain of command?
... Cadets are always wrong for some reason...

No, cadets just say things wrong sometimes. So do SMs, so do I more times than I'd like to count. Sometimes, it's how you're saying something that counts.


Not in this WIng. I can pull out a reg and prove them wrong, but somehow, I really am. You have no Idea how bad it is.

But, I do agree that a lot of the time both sides can do that. No one's perfect, and I don't expect them to be. Just a little respect ever now and then would be nice.
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Trung Si Ma

Quote from: Steve Silverwood on October 11, 2007, 04:47:55 AM
Quote from: Trung Si Ma on September 21, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
Alaska, late 70's, 6 Day search until target located, ME said they died on day 5.

I think I remember that one, Don.

I also remember when we got called up during the 1979 encampment to do a ground search for a missing kid, but IIRC we didn't get authorized for that one because it was considered a law-enforcement body search rather than a SAR.

Hey, Steve.

Remember the Joe Reddington, Sr search?  Lou Stoudt and I landed on the lake he claimed to be at for a biological break and he sure wasn't there.

I sure miss that 185 on wheel-ski's  ;D
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it

Titan 25

We were operating in -20 to 10 degree weather for about 3 days I believe. We had to sleep on the ground and I received mild frost bite on the toes of my right foot. Didn't tell anyone about it. :P
C/2d Lt Daniel K. Driskill
Flt. Commander
PHANTOM SQUADRONUTAH WING
MEMBER OF THE 2010 NATIONAL CHAMPION ROCKY MOUNTAIN REGION DRILL TEAM!!

Ron1319

I couldn't believe it when I showed up to the group SAREX last year having 3-times requested UDF training for our cadets who I was clear had no prior UDF training.  I promised to get them thru the pre-reqs.  They had no UDF training planned, so after wasting the first two hours, we finally got someone who could do UDF sign-offs to take us out on a "practice mission" that the IC had thrown together minutes before.  At least we got some sign-offs.

We tried to get Scanner/Observer pre-req sign-offs a few months ago and the supposed trainer just told us to show up some time when they were doing training and go flying with him.  He started off lecturing about the importance of search and rescue and the different between a ground team and an air crew.  For some reason, my insisting that he was talking to three Spaatzen and that I had been a GTL as a cadet and had my observer wings didn't keep him from going on about his intro to search and rescue story.  He insisted we didn't need pre-reqs and everyone who went flying with him got training.  Steam rolled out of my ears as I had made significant changes to my schedule that week to be able to be there.

Let's just say I'm not happy with the state of ES training in Norcal.  I've managed to get UDF signed off, but I still feel pretty hopeless when it comes to finding someone to actually do S/O sign-offs the way I envision them.  Our pilot in the squadron is finally able to do the sign-offs, so we can train ourselves and have him do the sign-offs, now.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

Fubar

Quote from: Ron1319 on December 10, 2010, 07:24:01 PMOur pilot in the squadron is finally able to do the sign-offs, so we can train ourselves and have him do the sign-offs, now.
Getting qualified people within the squadron to sign-off on training is critical. Expecting group or wing to provide adequate training and instructors just doesn't seem to work.

EMT-83

A SAREX isn't the time to show up and expect to be trained. You should make arrangements for training to be completed in advance, and use the SAREX for practical skill demonstration and evaluation.

tsrup

Back in '06 I went to a SAREX as a Cadet.  Our squadron didn't send a GTL with us.  We got to Mission Base and signed in and went to our staging area to be assigned a ground team.  Other cadets from other squadrons were assigned to their respective GTLs while we sat in the staging area and waited... and waited... and waited.  I (being the oldest, and the acting Cadet Commander of our squadron at the time) went back into mission base and brought it to their attention that we were never assigned a ground team, to which I was informed that we'd be receiving tasking shortly.

So we waited some more.  Then a couple Senior Members came up and told us they had a task for us.  And they did.  We were tasked to wash an airplane. 
Not impressed.

With that task complete, we were then tasked to police the area around mission base and collect any trash we could find.
Still not impressed.  But we did our diligence and formed a search line and yelled find every time we found a piece of garbage.


After some more talking to the base staff, and finally my own squadron commander (who was there, but was in an aircraft the entire day and unaware of our predicament) we were assigned to a ground team for the last sortie.  It was an ELT search so we used our DF and another cadet from my squadron augmented with a handheld scanner.  We picked up the signal quickly, and tried to track it down, but were told to stop what we were doing and do a line search for the ELT, in the opposite direction of where our bearings were pointing us.

When it was all said and done, I typed up an AAR, submitted it to my squadron commander (who was also my flight instructor at the time, so we had spoken frankly on many occasions) and AFIK he shared my sentiment and took steps to resolve the issue.

4 years later, as a SM and actually running SAREX's, I couldn't even fathom asking a group of cadets to be on garbage detail, or to wash aircraft, or other menial chores for no reason other than to have them do something.
Paramedic
hang-around.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: tsrup on December 10, 2010, 09:44:46 PM
but were told to stop what we were doing and do a line search for the ELT

I really, really hate it when people do that. DF training should teach that - finding the ELT with an L-Per or other device. Doing a line search for a training ELT is a wasted training opportunity...

Ron1319

Quote from: EMT-83 on December 10, 2010, 09:17:53 PM
A SAREX isn't the time to show up and expect to be trained. You should make arrangements for training to be completed in advance, and use the SAREX for practical skill demonstration and evaluation.

I made arrangements to receive training for my cadets at that SAR-Ex, it just seems that I have a different definition of training.  So we're clear, I had everyone who attended signed off as UDF trainees before the event.  We would have been fine with practical skills eval and demonstration, it just took more than two hours to get pointed in that direction with a trainer who had shown up not expected to be doing any training.  Sorry, but you can't blame that on me.

I also don't think you realize just how few trainers there are in this area.  We're working on becoming those trainers.  This one year requirement is garbage, though, especially as there is no experience requirement, only time.  I need to escalate a waiver to the 1-year requirement to sign off for UDF tasks for our cadets based on my previous ES experience but I have too much else to do right now to focus on that.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

JWilson

Well my worst SAREX experience was at the same time my best one. In that things going wrong and certain pilots being unable to spot a crowd of cadets frantically waving orange safety vests and flashing away with signal mirrors while flying low over the locatio we gave them only made things more interesting. In all, the 8-hour mission i was on was rather enjoyable and i got most of GTM3 signed off as well.

P.S. to the pilots that nearly guided us onto an abandoned-looking farm with pitbulls in the backyard, that blue tarp you saw there wasn't the target

EMT-83

^ Until you've been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, I'd be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and can't see.

tsrup

Paramedic
hang-around.

SII-117

A SAREX fits into one of these categories:
1. Great training, and no injuries
2. Training+Injuries
3.No Training+Injuries
4. None of either.

One SAREX last August fit #4.
I was working com, as usual, and we got everything set up, and the repeaters in the air, and waited.
And waited.
And waited.
And waited some more.

Saturday passed with nothing happening at all.
Sunday was really fun, though-I got to play cards with friends while still waiting.
We all went home, wondering what happened to the weekend. >:(
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup.

CAPcadet902

Just had another one. PA wing up to their usual tricks again. CAP Vans with LL Ranger stickers on. Really Hawk/101???
Welcome to PAWG may I have another

Major Carrales

Quote from: EMT-83 on December 12, 2010, 04:17:20 PM
^ Until you’ve been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, I’d be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and can’t see.

Until you've been the guy on the ground and in the air its hard to make judgements.  It has been my experience that the aircrews and ground teams are in their own respective worlds, not in a malevolent way, but in that their focus in on their scanner training or ELT searches/ground team taskings.  We can create more of an affect at SARexs by doing "joint training."  That is, real air/ground/COMM work that gets training accross as it would happen at a REDCAP.

At a REDCAP, for example, the mission should be coordiated with air/ground/mission staff/COMM working togehter instead of compartmentalizing.  It is important to, barrowing a phrase I heard, "train as we fight."

This is in the hands of the IC of the SARex, if the focus is "Qualify AIRCREW MEMBERS and UDF TEAMS" then we are limited in scope, however, if our focus and objective is "coordinate a Search and Rescue Exercise through a training the qualifies people with a more 'global' scope" then we have that in place and practiced for the REDCAPs.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

jeders

Quote from: Major Carrales on April 04, 2011, 02:01:33 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 12, 2010, 04:17:20 PM
^ Until you've been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, I'd be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and can't see.

Until you've been the guy on the ground and in the air its hard to make judgements.  It has been my experience that the aircrews and ground teams are in their own respective worlds, not in a malevolent way, but in that their focus in on their scanner training or ELT searches/ground team taskings.  We can create more of an affect at SARexs by doing "joint training."  That is, real air/ground/COMM work that gets training accross as it would happen at a REDCAP.

At a REDCAP, for example, the mission should be coordiated with air/ground/mission staff/COMM working togehter instead of compartmentalizing.  It is important to, barrowing a phrase I heard, "train as we fight."

This is in the hands of the IC of the SARex, if the focus is "Qualify AIRCREW MEMBERS and UDF TEAMS" then we are limited in scope, however, if our focus and objective is "coordinate a Search and Rescue Exercise through a training the qualifies people with a more 'global' scope" then we have that in place and practiced for the REDCAPs.

This is why I've always been a firm believer in never training ground teams and aircrews at the same time. If you're going to pair ground teams and aircrews, then one or the other needs to be fully, or at least almost fully, trained. This way whichever of the two resources needs the most training, they are supported by a well trained resource, and it can be more real. Also, a lot more time is wasted if both are untrained.

And having been the guy on the ground and the guy in the air with the same target, it's amazing what you think is visible on the ground that is invisible from the air. Depending on time of day, atmospheric conditions, etc., the eyes in the sky can miss some seemingly obvious things.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Ron1319

This seems rather hypothetical.  Every mission I've been on as a (now called) UDF team when we had a plane in the air, the plane got a signal and narrowed it down enough to give us a place to look.  We then went to that place and saw if we could get a signal that told us which way to go and found the practice ELT.  Are we talking about searches without a radio signal to follow?  The two finds I can easily remember, one place was an airport and the other was a small town which had a boat repair shop in it with a marine beacon that was removed from the boat and thrown around.
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

SarDragon

I just participated in a SAREX this w/e, and it went OK, but there were weather issues that delayed the sorties both days. Also, at least one MP wasn't instrument qualified, so that crew couldn't depart the mission base because he couldn't fly through the gunk into great air our at the grid. There was also the issue of being able to return to base if the weather had been OK going out, and gotten bad during the sortie.

BTW, this was all air sorties. No GT/UDF involvement.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

C/TSetser

Mine is I was at a Sarex and we just about ready to deploy, and one kid went to one of the stalls. Not thinking, I just go up to the one I thought he was in and I knock on the door and say "Hurry up Driscoll." I do this a couple of times, then a full blown major (also the wing vice commander) walks out and he says, "Who knocked on the door." I own up to it and he says is that the way to adress and officer. I scared at this point and storms off. Its probably not the most exciting, but it is probably my worst.

C/CMSgt Thomas Setser
IN-036
Thomas Setser,
C/1st Lt, Civil Air Patrol
Valparaiso Cadet Squadron
IN-036

davidsinn

Quote from: C/TSetser on April 22, 2011, 11:17:07 AM
Mine is I was at a Sarex and we just about ready to deploy, and one kid went to one of the stalls. Not thinking, I just go up to the one I thought he was in and I knock on the door and say "Hurry up Driscoll." I do this a couple of times, then a full blown major (also the wing vice commander) walks out and he says, "Who knocked on the door." I own up to it and he says is that the way to adress and officer. I scared at this point and storms off. Its probably not the most exciting, but it is probably my worst.

C/CMSgt Thomas Setser
IN-036

I remember that. I felt sorry for you because that wasn't just any major, it was the wing vice commander. :o
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

cpyahoo

     Well, mine isn't the worst I've ever had, but certainly interesting!  Back in 1987, I was up at a wing SAREX way up in Northern Wisconsin.  At the time, I was a C/MSgt. (that was as high as you could go before you got your Mitchell) and my Land Rescue Team (Ground Team for you folks!) was not attending this particular event.  I was hoping to jump in with another LRT, but got to mission base after they all left.  By this point in my cadet-hood, I was no dummy.  I wandered over to the next hangar and checked in with the [then] Ground Ops Officer and duly informed him that "... I was sent to assist him".  I wasn't about to work flightline or dump trash at mission base!  He was delighted by this and went back about his duties.
      At noon on the button, he got up, grabbed a garment bag and started strolling out the door.  So, being the inquiring mind, I ask, "Where ya doing?"  His reply?  "I'm off to a wedding.  See ya!"  Then I inquire again, "Who's gonna be ground ops officer???"  His answer? "You be ground ops officer.  Not my problem!"  Oh, boy...
     I ran over and tried telling the [then] Mission Coordinator.  Tried several times!  Finally, the Old Man ordered me out of there because he "... didn't have time for my nonsense."  What the... ???  Ok...
     I went back over and took over as ground ops officer!  At the time, there were 5 LRTs in the field and nobody had a clue as to where any were at.  After a period of 3 hours, I got all the LRTs located, on task and working grids. 
     The LRT from Milwaukee Emergency Services Squadron (MESS... that still cracks me up!  Good folks, though) rolled in about the same time as the Air Force evaluators.  The USAF was up for a staff assist on our mission.  The MESS-kins looked and laughed.  "You the ground ops officer???"  My response, "Yep!"  I gave them their tasking and safety briefs, outlined their search areas and gave them the info for their aircraft coordination.  The whole time... the USAF inspectors were steadily taking notes!  After the MESS LRT left, the USAF inspectors approached me and asked questions about ground ops.  They seemed fairly impressed with my breif.  Then, the $60,000 question came.  "Where's the Ground Ops Officer?"  I briefed them that he had left for a wedding and that I was it.  Then they asked, "But... you're a cadet?"  I then informed them that I tried telling the Missiom Coordinator, but was politely told to "deal with it". 
     At the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.  However, they gave me kuddos for doing a fine job and said that was the best brief they've ever recieved on ground operations! 

JeffDG

Quote from: cpyahoo on February 12, 2012, 04:45:26 PMAt the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.  However, they gave me kuddos for doing a fine job and said that was the best brief they've ever recieved on ground operations!
At our last SAREVAL, we had a cadet as our GBD...he received an "Outstanding" grade for his branch.

Mark_Wheeler

I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark

ßτε

I think the problem was more the fact that the Mission Coordinator had no clue what was happening in Ground Ops rather than that a Cadet was running Ground Ops.

PHall

Quote from: ß τ ε on February 12, 2012, 07:49:46 PM
I think the problem was more the fact that the Mission Coordinator had no clue what was happening in Ground Ops rather than that a Cadet was running Ground Ops.

No, you had Ground Ops being run by a cadet who was not rated as a Ground Ops Director. He was a GTM. That's what the Evaluators had a problem with.

Mark_Wheeler

Quote from: cpyahoo on February 12, 2012, 04:45:26 PM
   
     At the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.

I only meant that statement in regards to this comment. I wholeheartedly agree on the other comments. They rightfully should have been dinged if he wasn't even known to the IC or if he wasn't qualified for that position.

Mark

JeffDG

Quote from: Mark_Wheeler on February 12, 2012, 07:39:24 PM
I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
How do you do that when the SQTR for LSC has an "Age Eligibility: 21 years" in the Prerequisites section?

The Branch Directors require 18 year olds, so cadets are eligible for those, but of the Section Chiefs, only the Planning Section Chief does not include a 21 age of eligibility in the prereqs (and don't ask my what PSC doesn't...I haven't a clue!)

cpyahoo

Well... back in 1987, a cadet as Ground Ops was a NO-GO!

Back then we didn't have GTLs and GBDs.  The whole set-up was different.

Mark_Wheeler

Quote from: JeffDG on February 13, 2012, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Mark_Wheeler on February 12, 2012, 07:39:24 PM
I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
How do you do that when the SQTR for LSC has an "Age Eligibility: 21 years" in the Prerequisites section?

The Branch Directors require 18 year olds, so cadets are eligible for those, but of the Section Chiefs, only the Planning Section Chief does not include a 21 age of eligibility in the prereqs (and don't ask my what PSC doesn't...I haven't a clue!)

Good point. That was listed in the NESA task guides, but not on the SQTR that was in EServices when I qualified as an LSC.  At that point, the age check was 18 for that position. Some time after June of 2011 and September of 2011 they changed it to a 21 year age requirement. I'm not sure when that was because the next time I looked at the SQTR (Teaching another LSC) it was a the end of September and it had the 21 year old age requirement. With my birthday having just past, I got really lucky that my qualification didn't go away.

Mark

Ron1319

It pains me that they would change any ES position age requirement from 18 to 21.  I was a 20 year old scanner/observer and GTL and I'm of the opinion that a well trained cadet is typically at least as well studied and every bit as well focused as their senior member counterpart. 
Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Ron1319 on February 13, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
It pains me that they would change any ES position age requirement from 18 to 21.  I was a 20 year old scanner/observer and GTL and I'm of the opinion that a well trained cadet is typically at least as well studied and every bit as well focused as their senior member counterpart.

I think it has a lot to do with aligning with FEMA standards. 2 years ago, the rumor mill was saying that the GTL age was going to be raised from 18 to 21 to align with FEMA standards. That hasn't happened yet, though I expect that it will at some point (just hopefully not before I turn 21 ;) ).

JeffDG

Quote from: Mark_Wheeler on February 13, 2012, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on February 13, 2012, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Mark_Wheeler on February 12, 2012, 07:39:24 PM
I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
How do you do that when the SQTR for LSC has an "Age Eligibility: 21 years" in the Prerequisites section?

The Branch Directors require 18 year olds, so cadets are eligible for those, but of the Section Chiefs, only the Planning Section Chief does not include a 21 age of eligibility in the prereqs (and don't ask my what PSC doesn't...I haven't a clue!)

Good point. That was listed in the NESA task guides, but not on the SQTR that was in EServices when I qualified as an LSC.  At that point, the age check was 18 for that position. Some time after June of 2011 and September of 2011 they changed it to a 21 year age requirement. I'm not sure when that was because the next time I looked at the SQTR (Teaching another LSC) it was a the end of September and it had the 21 year old age requirement. With my birthday having just past, I got really lucky that my qualification didn't go away.

Mark
May want to check it out then.

Someone messed with a bunch of SQTRs online about that time.  For example, LSC went from requiring MSA or CUL to requiring MSA AND CUL.  I was trying to get some people qualified in Logistics at the time, and after an e-mail, it was quietly changed back.

cpyahoo

Hey CAPCadet902!  *raising my hand*

Guilty!!!  I put a Hawk Mountain sticker on the back of one of our new vans.  Wanted to see how long it would take someone to notice.

Looks like you won!  Nobody from my wing has noticed yet!

Duke Dillio

I don't remember when this was but the person who planted the practice beacon put it underneath a high voltage transmission tower with the antenna resting on the tower itself.  This particular line ran from New Mexico to Wyoming and beyond IIRC....  Need I say more?

Spaceman3750

Quote from: GoneAway on February 17, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
I don't remember when this was but the person who planted the practice beacon put it underneath a high voltage transmission tower with the antenna resting on the tower itself.  This particular line ran from New Mexico to Wyoming and beyond IIRC....  Need I say more?

I always wanted to put one in the windfarm my group CC works at... "The signal's here. No, it's there! Now it's over there!"

bflynn

Reading through this thread - My boss at work has a saying - it's difficult for him to motivate people, so his primary job must be to keep from demotivating them.  People bring their own reasons for wanting to do this.  Part of the leadership's job is keep from destroying the morale.

My worst SarEx was a year or two ago.  We mustered, signed in and a thunderstom parked over the airport and didn't move.  We sat in the pilot's lounge for about four hours until they pulled the plug on the exercise.

SarDragon

Quote from: bflynn on March 09, 2012, 03:45:02 AM
Reading through this thread - My boss at work has a saying - it's difficult for him to motivate people, so his primary job must be to keep from demotivating them.  People bring their own reasons for wanting to do this.  Part of the leadership's job is keep from destroying the morale.

My worst SarEx was a year or two ago.  We mustered, signed in and a thunderstom parked over the airport and didn't move.  We sat in the pilot's lounge for about four hours until they pulled the plug on the exercise.


BTDT. X5.  :(
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Maverick925

My first year in college, I transferred to a unit in NJWG so I could keep trying to advance in the Cadet Program.  One day, we had a statewide SAREX.  There were two mission bases.  Teterboro - where I was - in the north, and Trenton in the south.  I was the MRO at Teterboro Base.  The only other person working comm at Teterboro that day was a cadet who was "kinda" interested in radios.  I was what was then listed as ROA-A.  Shortly after the exercise started, there was a total power failure at Trenton.  Their commo equipment was inoperative.  So...instead of them sticking someone in a van and using a mobile radio, they decided to use the repeater network, and I was handling radio traffic for the entire state.  Eighteen years old, trying to teach another cadet the ropes of commo, and we had to handle radio traffic for the entire SAREX for the remainder of the exercise.

To this day, it astounds me how there were either no senior members approved as an MRO, or no one that was willing to do the job.  The SAREX went off without a hitch, and I haven't filled the MRO role since.

SarDragon

Trenton is no more South Jersey than San Francisco is Southern California. That's just what the folks up north would have you believe.  >:D
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Maverick925

Quote from: SarDragon on March 11, 2012, 07:26:56 AM
Trenton is no more South Jersey than San Francisco is Southern California. That's just what the folks up north would have you believe.  >:D

To a person like me, who lives in Philly, Trenton is Central Jersey.  However, from going to college in Northern Jersey (Bergen County), I've come to be taught that Trenton is either South Jersey, or the dividing line.  It's amazing how much North Jersey people dislike the south and vice versa.

SarDragon

And there are the Pineys.  >:D

Now let's get back to crappy SAREX experiences.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Huey Driver

NJ once again proves to be a largely discussed topic on CAPTalk ::)

And back to the SAREXs.
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right...

JROB

Quote from: cpyahoo on February 14, 2012, 07:43:50 PM

Guilty!!!  I put a Hawk Mountain sticker on the back of one of our new vans.  Wanted to see how long it would take someone to notice.

Looks like you won!  Nobody from my wing has noticed yet!


I noticed during SLS. I guess I'll have to find a NBB sticker for my van
Maj. Jason Robinson
Squadron Commander, Desoto Composite Squadron
SER-MS-096

"If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your life"-Igor Sikorsky

bflynn

Quote from: GoneAway on February 17, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
I don't remember when this was but the person who planted the practice beacon put it underneath a high voltage transmission tower with the antenna resting on the tower itself.  This particular line ran from New Mexico to Wyoming and beyond IIRC....  Need I say more?

Wow...

That has to be at least as fun as putting it in a car

a2capt

... or 4 of them in aircraft at one airport, with one in a car circling the airport at random?

Simulating an airport after a tornado ;)

BTCS1*

Quote from: a2capt on March 16, 2012, 05:25:50 PM
... or 4 of them in aircraft at one airport, with one in a car circling the airport at random?

Simulating an airport after a tornado ;)

Now that's just mean!
C/2d Lt. B. Garelick, CAP