ATP may be required

[Thrashed]

No GA flying is relevant to 121 flying, but it gives you a foundation that is solid to build a 121 life on.  I had 4000 hours when hired by my first 121 airline.  I had use of a free simulator.  Nothing fancy.  I think it was an ATC-800 or something.  I flew that thing everyday.  My 121 training was a breeze because of my instrument skills.   My 135 experience helped a little.  My CFI experience of about 1500 hours helped a lot.  Ask any CFI if they learn more by teaching.  It may not make you a better pilot (but it should), but it will make you a knowledgeable one.  That will come in handy in the 121 world.  Flying is the easy part.

[DG]

Your going to pay $160K for flight training?

That includes getting a degree. 

Serious question:

Is it a real college education?

Or mostly a lot of ground school(s)?

[airdale]

I had 4000 hours when hired by my first 121 airline.

Obviously, you weren't at the competency level of that unfortunate FO, then.  You're the kind of person I want up front when I'm in the back.

So ... do you think the requirements for the ATP are sufficiently rigorous?  I just reread them in Part 61 and realized that you can not only get a CFII but also an ATP without ever having flown in a cloud.  Or, said another way, do you think a young CFI whose hours post-Commercial are virtually all locally-flown dual-given has adequate experience to be safe as an ATP with you riding in the back?

[Thrashed]

Hours is not everything, but it is a start.  I got a job flying traffic watch with little time and flew a C172 1200 hours in one year. Almost all of it VFR.  We would do IFR to VFR on top and shoot an occasional approach.  I was ATP ready with over 1500 hours and about 50 multi.  I went and got my ATP in a Seneca.  I did not get hired at a regional in those days!  I wasn't ready even if they were.  I spent the next years gaining real experience as a flight instructor and corporate pilot.

You need to increase the hour requirements, but airlines need to look at what those hours were and test the person in the interview and simulator to see if they are ready for 121. 

The problem is supply and demand.  If an airline needs pilots, they lower their requirements.
I got a job at a major with over 10,000 hours.  The captains I flew with were impressed that I could fly.  I guess they thought that it was my first job?

[CASH172]

This is no longer a may be.

http://transportation.house.gov/News/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1032

[flyguy06]

^ well, looks like I'll be flight instructing for a few more years making $12/hr.

[Capt. Chris Homko]

I wouldn't put fatigue at the top.  I'd put incompetence at the top.  Opposite reaction to a stall.  Raising flaps when slow.  These are all pre-solo skills.  My wife, who isn't a pilot, even knew this when she heard the story on the news.  If you don't know how to fly, being fatigued or not won't help you. 

Most all accidents are a combination of many factors. All I was saying there was that the most significant factor was fatigue. Fatigue that could be immensely reduced if the pilots were payed enough to actually afford to either live at their home base or stay at a decent hotel there. The first officer there had traveled all night on several flights from Seattle to the east coast and only caught a nap in the crew lounge right before the flight. There initial move was to pull back on the stick when they saw their airspeed and altitude declining, even with the stick shaker going. You don't need an ATP certificate to know how to properly recover from a stall. There were other contributing factors, ignoring the sterile cockpit rules for instance, but I still contend that pilot fatigue was the number one factor there. I'm sure you'd agree that with all the training, expense, and responsibilities that pilots experience they deserve to make more money than what they are paid now.

I agree with you completely.  Fatigue was an issue but, come on folks, it was a freaking stall!!!  I think I earned my way to the airlines (i wasn't a 500hr wonder kid), I flight instructed, traffic watch, 135 freight dog, rj driver (furloughed) and, now a B1900 Captain.

You want to see whats wrong with aviation, come spend a week with me.  Start your day with a 0330 wake up call, 0415 van, 0515 departure, fly 8 legs (with the high probability of at least 3-4 approaches, full procedure) and, finally back to your hotel by 1630.  This in a 1900, with an FO who no experience.  I spend a great deal of my time, playing flight instructor.

I am all for the 1500/ATP requirement, real rest rules and, real pay.  Yes, I choose this lifestyle and, don't regret it at all.  Its been a great ride, just wish it wasn't as bumpy.   

Don't forget about the recovery technique for a tailplane icing induced "stall", flaps up first and you pull up not push down on the yoke - exactly what the F/O did, retract the flaps...  too bad it wasn't a tailplane induced icing stall they were in.

[Mustang]

Don't forget about the recovery technique for a tailplane icing induced "stall", flaps up first and you pull up not push down on the yoke - exactly what the F/O did, retract the flaps...  too bad it wasn't a tailplane induced icing stall they were in.

Concur.   

FYI, it appears that the Senate committee has compromised on the 1500 hours thing; looks like 800 hours is now going to be the number.  Chalk one up for the airlines and aviation universities.

http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/13/986439/deal-made-on-hours-of-training.html