Defense Cuts = No Air Shows

Started by Stonewall, February 16, 2013, 03:28:10 AM

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Stonewall

Lackland didn't have their air show in December, and Langley, Semour Johnson, and Maxwell that I know of, have all cancelled theirs for 2013.

My favorite, the Joint Services Open House at Andrews AFB has changed to every other year now.

I love air shows, and I was looking forward to attending A LOT of them with my kids.  It'll be a lot harder now

>:(
Serving since 1987.

Woodsy

MacDill Air Fest is a major mission for Florida Wing every year.  We support it with 100+ members.  As of the last email I got on it, they are still proceeding with planning it, with the understanding that it will be canceled if sequesterwhateveritis happens.

Spaceman3750

My understanding was that airshows were a way to burn excess flight hours at the end of the year... I don't think Scott has had one in several, but I could be wrong.

Tim Medeiros

Just got an email from AZWG saying the Luke AFB one got cancelled this year.
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

jimmydeanno

Barksdale's is cancelled, too.

I like airshows as much as the next guy, but having the country go bankrupt or watching the Red Bull performance team...

Maybe they'll start looking at things like DoD employing more band members than the State Department employs foreign service agents, why GSA pricing is considerably higher than normal pricing, and why contracts always seem to go to the highest priced contractor or cost considerably more than the same project in the civilian marketplace.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

SarDragon

Heard today that just about all of the airshow schedules past May have been cancelled.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Paul_AK

Does anyone happen to know if they will still have open houses, though? Or is it all portions and not just flying hours that have been axed?
Paul M. McBride
TSgt, 176 SFS, AKANG
1st Lt, AK CAP
        
Earhart #13376

LegacyAirman

Quote from: Paul_AK on March 14, 2013, 08:49:43 AM
Does anyone happen to know if they will still have open houses, though? Or is it all portions and not just flying hours that have been axed?

Today, at the base where I work, a Wing Commander's briefing on sequestration included open houses with airshows as discontinued.

Patterson

I would rather see every Air Force Community Outreach line item (Bands, AirShows, Open Houses etc.) cut instead of CAP cut!!

No tears here if Military jet teams don't ever fly again!!  It's a huge waste of our tax money and it does not directly impact recruitment, especially now since the services will be decreasing recruitment goal numbers in the years ahead.

abdsp51

Quote from: Patterson on March 15, 2013, 10:44:16 PM
I would rather see every Air Force Community Outreach line item (Bands, AirShows, Open Houses etc.) cut instead of CAP cut!!

No tears here if Military jet teams don't ever fly again!!  It's a huge waste of our tax money and it does not directly impact recruitment, especially now since the services will be decreasing recruitment goal numbers in the years ahead.

Bitter much?  You obviously don't get it do you.  The Air Forces budget getting cut means CAPs budget is going to get cut.  The T-birds actually do directly impact recruiting and numbers are dropping because the services are again looking for a higher caliber of people.  And there are many cuts across the AF that are hitting home to alot of people daily.  They just canned TA earlier this week for the rest of the fiscal year, and are going to be starting furloughs next month.  I would rather have my airmen have the money for school than us get a [darn] new airplane.  Want to know a bigger waste of your tax money?  The elected representation  being able to whisk away in a USAF aircraft at their whim.   

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: abdsp51 on March 16, 2013, 01:56:54 AM
I would rather have my airmen have the money for school than us get a [darn] new airplane. 

And if we had no planes, how many multiples of TA cash worth would the AF be spending on SAR?

abdsp51

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 16, 2013, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on March 16, 2013, 01:56:54 AM
I would rather have my airmen have the money for school than us get a [darn] new airplane. 

And if we had no planes, how many multiples of TA cash worth would the AF be spending on SAR?

 
No more than what they are spending now.  Also most states do SAR via a state office or the county Sheriff.  Without the people the planes aren't worth squat. 

jimmydeanno

Re: TA program

How many educations is a service member entitled to?  GIBill and TA?  So, the free education benefits from the GIBill aren't good enough that we need a free tuition program too?  Sure, the GIBill doesn't pay as much if you're still on AD, but life is full of choices, no?
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

SarDragon

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 16, 2013, 03:37:24 AM
Re: TA program

How many educations is a service member entitled to?  GIBill and TA?  So, the free education benefits from the GIBill aren't good enough that we need a free tuition program too?  Sure, the GIBill doesn't pay as much if you're still on AD, but life is full of choices, no?

One education, two different pockets of money.

TA is intended for use while on AD, and it pays a percentage of the cost of a course. There used to be no limit on the amount of benefits that could be used. I'm not sure of today's rules

While GI Bill may, under specific circumstances, be used while on AD, it it intended for use after discharge, or retirement. If taking courses on a less than half-time basis, it pays tuition. For a course load half-time or greater, a monthly stipend is paid. There is a limit to the benefit.

Wn\hen I retired, there was enough available to complete a bachelors degree, and most of a masters degree, depending on how expensive the school is. I attended a private university, which was more expensive. A state school would have been cheaper.

All this has been in place for what seems like forever. I got my first TA in 1974.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

abdsp51

Quote from: SarDragon on March 16, 2013, 04:03:19 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 16, 2013, 03:37:24 AM
Re: TA program

How many educations is a service member entitled to?  GIBill and TA?  So, the free education benefits from the GIBill aren't good enough that we need a free tuition program too?  Sure, the GIBill doesn't pay as much if you're still on AD, but life is full of choices, no?

One education, two different pockets of money.

TA is intended for use while on AD, and it pays a percentage of the cost of a course. There used to be no limit on the amount of benefits that could be used. I'm not sure of today's rules

While GI Bill may, under specific circumstances, be used while on AD, it it intended for use after discharge, or retirement. If taking courses on a less than half-time basis, it pays tuition. For a course load half-time or greater, a monthly stipend is paid. There is a limit to the benefit.

Wn\hen I retired, there was enough available to complete a bachelors degree, and most of a masters degree, depending on how expensive the school is. I attended a private university, which was more expensive. A state school would have been cheaper.

All this has been in place for what seems like forever. I got my first TA in 1974.

Exactly and I paid into the GI Bill plain and simple.  TA is one of the things that draws people to enlist and serve.  Also with the cuts travel for career enhancing schools are going to be limited as well as flight hours outside of theater.  So why should we have funds for equipment when we have people who's careers will potentially stagnate and their self improvement because of these cuts.  Which brings back that with the AF's budget being cut CAP's budget will be too.  It's the nature of the beast.   

BHartman007

Wings Over Houston has said that they will go on with or without military involvement. Sure won't be the same, though. :'(

Wing Assistant Director of Administration
Squadron Deputy Commander for Cadets

Eclipse

#16
Frankly I've wondered for years when the airshows were going to come to an end, whether because of funding, safety, or tree huggers.
I know I'm way in the minority on this, at least here, but I have no particular love for these whatsoever.  I understand that the ones that focus
on GA, like Airventure, are economic drivers, both for the industry and the local area, so be it, but beyond that, I don't see the point of
the huge cost and risk.

Don't get me wrong, one reason I bought my home where it is was because it's on a final approach for the World's Busiest Airport (screw you Harstfield!) - I enjoy watching airplanes, fly a fair piece, and still get excited when something mil-spec washes by (POTUS' Chinooks flew over the house Thursday, and we saw Marine 1 with at least 3 in tow landing across from us during our SAV yesterday), I just don't buy into the ROI, and when you have to cut discretionary spending, that's the kind of places to look.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

There are a lot of intagibles in the ROI of military air shows.

I agree....in a time where we are cutting military benifits (tuition assistance, etc) I agree that airshows should stop.

But we should still keep it as a budget item.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

abdsp51

Quote from: lordmonar on March 16, 2013, 04:02:33 PM
There are a lot of intagibles in the ROI of military air shows.

I agree....in a time where we are cutting military benifits (tuition assistance, etc) I agree that airshows should stop.

But we should still keep it as a budget item.

I agree.  As much as I like seeing them and working them was a blast, if we are cutting budget items that the troops want there needs to be other concessions as well.  Airshows cost money and JP8 is not cheap by any means. 

Patterson

#19
AirShows were relevant prior to and leading into the 1950's, a period you might consider the "dawn and expansion of aviation". Since the mid twentieth century, AirShows have become less of an introduction and showcase of American Aerospace ingenuity and more of a money maker for corporations!

Besides that, the military must decide now if it wants to spend money on the warfighter or entertainment!  We are still a nation largely at war!!  I might sound cold or heartless, but I know I decided to serve my country because of a sense of obligation and duty (thanks to time as a CAP Cadet most likely) and not because I was either dazzled by shiny planes or tanks, or bribed by lump sums of cold hard cash!
I knew service in the military would be a hardship, both personally and financially.  I understood I would get far less "take-home pay" than my friends in the civilian sector. 

Now our nation is at the proverbial crossroads in deciding what parts of our Armed Forces gets funded.  It might sound harsh, but I want my tax dollars to go toward bullets and bombs, not to pay the salary of a musician in the Army or Air Force Band!  Do we need bands and AirShows when funding those items means we must cut the number of tanks or planes that need purchased this year?

It is actually very simple!  All a person has to do is remove themself from making decisions based on personal likes or interests, and make decisions based on necessities and whole picture needs.

There are some that are quick to jump on me and others that base our decisions on facts instead of personal feelings.  Those that believe an AirShow adds to our Warfighting capability is blinded by personal belief and can not see the true facts of the matter! 

To simplify it further, the reason our national economic situation is dire is directly related to the continuance of federal and state programs that cost more than the added value benefit it was supposed to deliver!

Economics is the game, and the majority of Americans have no clue how to play.  So before you object to my reasoning, I ask that you first take a look at your own personal financial situation.  If you are in debt, yet have eaten out anytime during the past 30 days, you are a primary reaon why our nation sucks on the economic stage!!

If you truly object and must counter my arguments, please use facts and not personal feelings.  The "AirShows are needed to keep recruitment numbers up" argument is no longer valid (has not been for the past 30 years). You can find the DoD reports related to outreach programs and recruitment numbers by way of a Google search!  The Miltary itself understands outreach programs like AirShows are not a huge multiplier of enlistment numbers, but because these programs are so ingrained and have so many service members supporting them, cutting them out alltogether would be a sign of waste and would cause further scrutiny into all military programs by the Fed.