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Armed CAP Members

Started by Hardshell Clam, October 24, 2011, 10:58:28 PM

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Hardshell Clam

I have a question after reading all the posts concerning armed CAP members:

Are there any (authorized) armed members out there?

And right up front, I am NOT in favor of armed members by virtue of a "CCW" permit as obtaining one can be a lengthy process or a simple mater of plunking down the cost of the permit and not having any felony record.

At a minimum, I would require 40 hours of range training and another 40 hours of classroom/legal training, a background investigation (not just a fingerprint check) and a mental exam such as the written MMPI test and a follow up interview with the shrink before considering allowing CAP members to be armed.

RiverAux

There are no armed CAP members.  That implies that CAP is arming them or that the use of weapons is somehow part of CAP's program. 

There are individuals who are CAP members may continue carrying a weapon while conducting CAP activities. 

tsrup

Quote from: RiverAux on October 24, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
There are no armed CAP members.  That implies that CAP is arming them or that the use of weapons is somehow part of CAP's program. 

There are individuals who are CAP members may who, despite a blatant violation of CAP regulations, continue carrying a weapon while conducting CAP activities.

FTFY,

just to clarify.
Paramedic
hang-around.

RiverAux

Uh, you might want to check the actual regulation before "clarifying" my post in that way.  For example, from 900-3
QuoteA member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing commander.

SARDOC

When I was a law enforcement officer I was required to carry while in the jurisdiction where I worked.  I just made it concealed when participating is CAP activities.

Also IIRC there are places where Pilots are required to carry or at least have an accessible Firearm...Alaska comes to mind.  Anybody please feel free to correct that.

NCRblues

My wing has a captain that is also a US Marshal. When he is on call, he is required to carry. He just conceals it and moves on with his day.

Heck, my handgun of choice (92FS) is never very far from me. Its not ON me, but it isn't far at all.  ;)
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

tsrup

Quote from: RiverAux on October 24, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Uh, you might want to check the actual regulation before "clarifying" my post in that way.  For example, from 900-3
QuoteA member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing commander.

Conceded,
Forgot about LE and Alaska.
Paramedic
hang-around.

RiverAux

And keep in mind that its not just any law enforcement officer that falls under that exception.  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty. 

tsrup

Quote from: RiverAux on October 25, 2011, 01:05:35 AM
And keep in mind that its not just any law enforcement officer that falls under that exception.  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty.

I seem to recall now a previous thread in which this was all discussed...
Paramedic
hang-around.

RiverAux

True, though it appears that Hardshell Clam is actually proposing to loosen the requirements and expand the number of people that could carry a weapon.

tsrup

Paramedic
hang-around.

Hardshell Clam

#11
Just to clear up a few things:

1. Well DUH... I know the CAP is not an armed force. Please re-read my question and respond to the question asked. Please try to avoid getting off issue.

2. U.S. Marshals are not REQUIRED by law to be armed off duty. (I.e: "May" vs "Must".) Just a thought: Seems silly to be armed in your CAP uniform while "on call" as you can't respond in CAP uniform, so why not keep it in your bag with your "work cloths?

3. RiverAux: I am not perposing anything, just asking a question.

4. Tsruo: I stated I have read the former threads/posts.

So, with my question in mind,(Pleae reread it)...

tsrup

Okay, on the subject at hand,

Who would conduct/certify the range training and classroom/legal training?

What would the objectives of these courses be?

I ask the second question from a Curriculum Design standpoint.  How about some tangible objectives.



I see no reason to open up the regulation as it currently is.  Either keep it the way it is or allow those who already have a CCW carry with the wing commander's approval.
Paramedic
hang-around.

PHall

Folks, CAPR 900-3 is pretty clear about this. We don't carry, period.
There are exceptions. Read the reg to see what they are.

SARDOC

Quote from: RiverAux on October 25, 2011, 01:05:35 AM
  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty.

A weird little nuance...but what happens when your department policy is adopted by reference into the City Charter and therefore ordinance?

Eclipse

Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 01:18:32 AM
3. RiverAux: I am not perposing anything, just asking a question.

Fair enough.  Why?

There are probably less members in CAP who would be required to carry a firearm during CAP duty then there are NCO's wearing grade from another service.  For those required to carry, no one needs to know.

For the record, you did, in fact, make a proposal in your original post.

"That Others May Zoom"

Hardshell Clam


Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.

PHall: I've read the regs and my question stands: Is there any auth peron (with a letter) armed while on CAP duties?

SARDOC: Is there any place that actully requires (by law) that off duty officers carry firearms? I would be interested to know who has that in their charter. HUGE liability as it makes the city/county, etc. absorb libility, just like when on duty. Even the NYPD dropped that years ago and department policy is not law.

Hardshell Clam

Sorry about my poor spelling, I'm on my phone and letters are way to small...

I'm about to give up as no one has responded to my question without convoluting same:

Are there any members auth (by reg and letter from wing CO) to carry firearms?

Easy question, easy answer.

tsrup

Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 01:47:40 AM

Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.


I gathered that.

I just asked you to expand and justify.
Paramedic
hang-around.

Hardshell Clam

Quote from: tsrup on October 25, 2011, 01:53:43 AM
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 01:47:40 AM

Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.


I gathered that.

I just asked you to expand and justify.

OK then: I would not anyone around me, my family, cadets etc. who is armed by official permission to act as a defender with firearms unless I know they are well trained and mentality stable enough to do so.

Getting a CCW in a "must issue" state is not that hard. I know a lot of folks who have CCW permits and I would not let them guard my dog. I do not want to offend anyone, but in my state you pay the CCW fee and have no disqualifying crimes and woo-hoo you can carry a gun. Some folks go out and buy a CCW badge, and that is a real warning flag as far as I'm concerned...