National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[lordmonar]

So....I have yet to see in either a CAP or AF reg/AFI/PD that specifically says that they cannot buy anything except USAF-CAP uniform items.
So......yes it is nit picking....and a technicality......but so is your argument that Mr S13 pickup up an ABU is some how going to end CAP and USAF's relationship.

CAPR 147-1 says that unless you are on an AFAM or official CAP activity, you are only allowed to buy uniform items, and those uniform
items must be for CAP use.

That is not exactly what it say......but thanks for the Cite.

[Eclipse]

So....I have yet to see in either a CAP or AF reg/AFI/PD that specifically says that they cannot buy anything except USAF-CAP uniform items.
So......yes it is nit picking....and a technicality......but so is your argument that Mr S13 pickup up an ABU is some how going to end CAP and USAF's relationship.

CAPR 147-1 says that unless you are on an AFAM or official CAP activity, you are only allowed to buy uniform items, and those uniform
items must be for CAP use.

That is not exactly what it say......but thanks for the Cite.

That's literally what it says.  Do I have to actually copy the text?  We both know the intention.

[A.Member]

The other piece of this issue is the fairly constant assertion from CAWG folks that they never get any missions, especially on the ground.

If it meant some sort of commitment to being called, I'd consider a reasonable request by our state to make uniform changes, but it would have to be
more then "we suggest" especially if they aren't calling.

Also, I'd expect to see every other volunteer helper agency in the same situation, which in this case it clearly isn't.

Also this:

...wear the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement
nationwide.

No such animal exists, so one seriously has to ask where CAWG got the idea that orange BDUs are the "national standard" (top, bottom, or otherwise),
and further, assuming it's a good idea, why out grade and insignia can't be worn on them.

So much wasted time.

Agreed.

[JoeTomasone]

So....I have yet to see in either a CAP or AF reg/AFI/PD that specifically says that they cannot buy anything except USAF-CAP uniform items.

Really?  Right there in CAPR 147-1:

"3. Protection of Privileges. In order to protect the privileges which have been authorized, Civil
Air Patrol members not occupying government quarters as described in paragraph 1b will not attempt
to purchase items in base exchanges other than articles of uniform authorized for wear by CAP
members or to use the services of base exchange activities. To avoid any embarrassment, CAP
members seeking to make exchange purchases should contact the manager if a clerk or door checker
questions their authorization to enter the base exchange or to make specific purchases."

[Luis R. Ramos]

Stillamarine-

I meant by "suspicious," enough for "probable cause."

Others-

I agree with Eclipse in all.

The cadet opened himself to this exchange.

The issue of him owning or not an ACU, could have been raised ten years ago. Then it was not as specific as Tomasone points out. Back then you had people buying thermal suits and other items sold in the same sections where the BDUs were being sold. In response to this, the regs were made clearer.

Flyer

[A.Member]

If you have a unit patch and your wing is one that continues to wear wing patches, of course!

I'm curious as to whether there are any that don't require it.

[Larry Mangum]

Let's end this argument CAPR 1471 states:

1. Privileges. The following privileges are accorded under the conditions specified and upon the presentation of the credentials stated:
a. Civil Air Patrol cadets and senior members are authorized to purchase at any time articles of uniform which are authorized for wear by Civil Air Patrol directives. When purchasing articles of uniform, members will be identified by the official Civil Air Patrol membership card which must be current.
b. Members of the Civil Air Patrol on an official CAP activity are authorized to purchase any exchange item, except for State tax-free items, at the exchange where occupying government quarters. To make purchases of other than uniform items, members will be identified by their Civil Air Patrol membership card, USAF transportation authorization or military support authorization, and evidence that they are occupying government quarters on a military installation. (Evidence of occupation of government quarters will usually be furnished by the billeting officer.)

Paragraph b, states that the only time you are authorized to purchase non uniform items at the exchange is when you are staying in goverment quarters on base.

So based upon that, yes the cadet should not have purchsed the hat. However, there is not a single one of us who has not purchased at least one item that was not a uniform item from MCSS or the exchange at one time or another when we have been on a base and not in housing.  Ever bought a water or a candy bar?

[RangerConlin]

I have seen people in Michigan without Wing patches.

[jeders]

If you have a unit patch and your wing is one that continues to wear wing patches, of course!

I'm curious as to whether there are any that don't require it.

I always hear that TXWG requires the wing patch, but in exactly 0 of the published supplements to 39-1 since the wing patch was dropped was it listed as a mandatory item.

[Archer]

Eclipse, drop it. Sierra, drop it. Bystanders, disperse; go back to your homes.

Can we bring this thread back to uniform change proposals from the National Conference? Please?

I'll (re)start:

Where will be able to get velcro navy blue grade insignia for the fleece if it is authorized? Will we just have to make it ourselves?

[Eclipse]

If you have a unit patch and your wing is one that continues to wear wing patches, of course!

I'm curious as to whether there are any that don't require it.

It's optional in my wing, I'd say about 50/50 don't wear it.

[jeders]

Eclipse, drop it. Sierra, drop it. Bystanders, disperse; go back to your homes.

Can we bring this thread back to uniform change proposals from the National Conference? Please?

I'll (re)start:

Where will be able to get velcro navy blue grade insignia for the fleece if it is authorized? Will we just have to make it ourselves?

I imagine Vanguard will sell it for about $30/ea.

[Eclipse]

So based upon that, yes the cadet should not have purchsed the hat. However, there is not a single one of us who has not purchased at least one item that was not a uniform item from MCSS or the exchange at one time or another when we have been on a base and not in housing.  Ever bought a water or a candy bar?

Why were you there?

On a CAP activity or as a tourist.  If you were there on an activity, then you were inside the lines.  If you went there for any other
reasons, and don't occupy quarters (such as having a billet on base), then you were outside the lines.

[Hawk200]

I imagine Vanguard will sell it for about $30/ea.

Don't think it'll be that much, but I can see it at about seven or eight bucks.

[A.Member]

I have seen people in Michigan without Wing patches.

Is that because the Wing doesn't require it or is it from a lack of attention?

[abdsp51]

I will piggy back and that AAFES does allow for items that are consumable to be purchased by anyone.  And Larry Magnum, I goto the BX and purchase items all the time and I do it when I am not on CAP business.

[Mitchell 1969]

As to getting back on topic. His depliction of ABU's with all of the patches, I have been informed is how the AF wants them to be worn by CAP, they do not want the minimalist approach, which I favor. My source is a wing king who was at the actual presentation. 

I also think that the inital discussion had degraded into a personal attack upon the cadet.  He has a right to defend himself when attacked and provoked. He may have crossed an invisible line when doing so, but I suspect a few of the attacks / counter points did so as well.

I think the relevant "cadet guidance" was packaged and delivered long ago. The bell has rung, punches still coming, but only because he keeps begging for them outside the cadet bubble and having jumped into the adult bubble.

Some lessons are harder learned, I suppose, than others.

[NIN]

"oh, look, an ABU cap wrapped around a soup can"

[Eclipse]

"oh, look, an ABU cap wrapped around a soup can"

Now you did it!

[NIN]

I couldn't find the bunny with a pancake pic...