National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[Hawk200]

Why do you have ABUs?

To be completely blunt: Why does it matter? If someone wants to buy and play with ABU's, it's their business.

It's only anyone else's business if they try to wear them when not authorized.

[Eclipse]

Why do you have ABUs?

To be completely blunt: Why does it matter? If someone wants to buy and play with ABU's, it's their business.

It's only anyone else's business if they try to wear them when not authorized.

Because it goes to their inclination and intention.

For example, in this case, I'd hazard one of the reasons Cadet Desoto has an opinion regarding suede boots is that he already bought them.

As seniors we're supposed to be helping cadets make good decisions.

A cadet buying uniform items he can't use is not focused where he needs to be.  Yes, they do it all the time, yes they
play airsoft, yes they like to have Army toys, etc., etc.  Doesn't mean it's a good decision, especially in a CAP context.

[AngelWings]

Why do you have ABUs?

To be completely blunt: Why does it matter? If someone wants to buy and play with ABU's, it's their business.

It's only anyone else's business if they try to wear them when not authorized.

Because it goes to their inclination and intention.

For example, in this case, I'd hazard one of the reasons Cadet Desoto has an opinion regarding suede boots is that he already bought them.

As seniors we're supposed to be helping cadets make good decisions.

I own multiple pairs of desert camo uniforms, ABUs, BDUs, older Blues uniforms, multiple types of boots, k-pots, gas masks, IBAs, etc. etc. etc.

Do I have intentions to wear or use these uniforms? No. I collect military uniforms as a hobby. I own a pair of tan boots for JROTC, I own a pair of Sage boots because they were steel toe and good for some things I've been doing. Does that mean I want CAP to wear suede boots? No.

[Eclipse]

I would have the same "concerns" regarding your collection if it came to light locally.

People can and will spend their money and time as they like, doesn't make it a good idea, especially for cadets.
And my experience is that these "collections" tend to start popping up in CAP circumstances, again, especially with
cadets.  BTDT.

[lordmonar]

I would have the same "concerns" regarding your collection if it came to light locally.

What about mine?

Really......just let it go.

[SierraOneThree]

In all honestly because I can, it's legal, and I collect military uniforms.

Seriously? You may be a senior member, but I'm also an adult and can make decisions for myself. With all due respect sir, it is none of anybody's business what I own or do outside of CAP until I try to go against CAP regulations. Which I won't.

And no, I don't have sage boots. I have had them in the past, but I don't now. I made a fuss about it because it looks (in my and many other peoples' opinion) idiotic.

[a2capt]

I have ABU's.

... I've had multiple chances over the last couple years to get free stuff. I utilized one of the opportunities. Similarly to the motivation that Nin expressed.

Now I'm full of intent and whatever, or is that Nintent?

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, we get to use them.

As for the least patches on said uniform, here's the deal. If the manual says that unit patch goes here, and wing patch goes here, and you don't want to put them on, the you're out of uniform.

Goofy and the 8 ball are not required. Don't like the added color? Then don't put them on. But if your unit has a patch and it's supposed to be there, then you need to set the example and wear -the- uniform properly, as specified. Like it or not. The manual does not say "only if you like it."

[Eclipse]

I would have the same "concerns" regarding your collection if it came to light locally.

What about mine?

Really......just let it go.

You're an adult, and they were likely issued.

[Eclipse]

In all honestly because I can, it's legal, and I collect military uniforms.

For the sake of argument, why?

It's one thing to collect vintage uniforms that are clearly no longer in use for their historic or cash value,
but buying current-issue items just to look at them starts to get real close to the Don Shipley / TAH Funzone.

Rarely do people spend money on things they don't intend to use, somewhere. 

So am I right that you already bought the boots?

[SierraOneThree]

I edited my above response.

[NIN]

I have ABU's.

... I've had multiple chances over the last couple years to get free stuff. I utilized one of the opportunities. Similarly to the motivation that Nin expressed.

Now I'm full of intent and whatever, or is that Nintent?

Whoa. How'd I get dragged into this?

I do have ABUs. On a hangar. In my closet. Put them on the check fit and then hung them up to await the day when they're approved and insignia is available.

And there they remain. Right next to my ACUs, dress blues and a bunch of other uniform items that I either can or can't wear for a variety of reasons (including ABDUs, nomex two-piece Vietnam-era flight suits, a pretty spiffy Royal Blue CWU-73/P flight suit and a nice missile bag....)

Now if I can just find an APECS goretex in ABU for "the right price."    (not really, but if one came across my transom for less than $50, I'd buy it)

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, we get to use them.

Well, we can all assume that, based on some educated guesses and discussions with people "in the know."  But the green light has not come from above at all. Yet.  We *think* it will, and we're *hearing* that it will, but  in that same vein: if you jump thru the red light at an intersection, telling the cop "I was *certain* it would turn green just as I did that.."  won't get you out of a ticket!!

As for the least patches on said uniform, here's the deal. If the manual says that unit patch goes here, and wing patch goes here, and you don't want to put them on, the you're out of uniform.

If you have a unit patch and your wing is one that continues to wear wing patches, of course!

[a2capt]

Imagine if the Pickle Suit collectors bought new stuff then, so they'd have a set to keep as a reference for later.

As for ABUs and the other services similar uniforms, in some parts of the country, there's a surplus of them already. Service members never used all the ones they were issued, washouts from bootcamp, just like BDUs were once prevalent.

[Eclipse]

In all honestly because I can, it's legal, and I collect military uniforms.

Seriously? You may be a senior member, but I'm also an adult and can make decisions for myself. With all due respect sir, it is none of anybody's business what I own or do outside of CAP until I try to go against CAP regulations. Which I won't.

And no, I don't have sage boots. I have had them in the past, but I don't now. I made a fuss about it because it looks (in my and many other peoples' opinion) idiotic.

If you are a cadet, then you are not yet an adult in a CAP context. 

And you are correct, it's your business what you do with your money.  My point was that the fact that you
have made it known that you already own ABUs, with no reason to, will color your opinion on the subject. 
People can take that in whatever way they wish.

It was also important to you that we all know you already have ABUs, so consider that.

[SierraOneThree]

Redacted.

I admit I have been too forward, I will tone it back.

[abdsp51]

Cadet DeSoto, careful you are getting close to the line if you haven't crossed it already.  You may be an adult in the legal sense but you are still a cadet within the organization and as one and especially a C/Maj I would expect more from you in regards to your verbage and your behavior here.  Irregardless of what you feel is idiotic or clownish, those above your level have made the choices they made and have submitted them.  If they are approved it is then part of your responsibility to enforce that decision.  You are suppose to be setting an example for your junior cadets to follow. 

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

I am going to strongly advise you to think before you speak and especially get more experience under your belt before acting like a know it all and self declared expert.  You may voice your opinion but you have tried to force your opinion on others and that is unacceptable as a cadet officer especially a Phase IV cadet.

[a2capt]

If you have a unit patch and your wing is one that continues to wear wing patches, of course!

Yes, of course. That bit 'o context got left out. FWIW, I have yet to encounter a unit w/o a patch, though that is not saying there isn't one, and I'm pretty sure that while most Wing's opted to require the Wing patch on the BDUs, it's my understanding that there's at least some examples of it being made optional, or not wanted at all.


Would that have meant they'd have had to buy them out from the Big V? ;-)

[Eclipse]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Good point, I missed that. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sierra-

I guess that was not the kind of argument you were thinking when you posted those photos, right?



Flyer

[AngelWings]

I would have the same "concerns" regarding your collection if it came to light locally.

People can and will spend their money and time as they like, doesn't make it a good idea, especially for cadets.
And my experience is that these "collections" tend to start popping up in CAP circumstances, again, especially with
cadets.  BTDT.

I've made more money buying and selling military uniforms than any part time minimum wage job will ever make me. It is lightly taxed, high stakes sometimes, and I've learned a lot about history selling uniforms than any school course would teach me.

I got ABUs free, and many other things free too. Sold them, and made marginal profits. I purchase items that are at least 25% cheaper than their current selling value. I make at least 25% on most of my sales.

One thing you may or may not know about collecting is that contract dates and variants of uniforms do increase or decrease value. The ABUs with the map pockets are going to be more valuable than those that lack it. A set of darker ABUs with another set of lighter ABUs will be valuable. If they're no longer manufactured, they will hold some value in the future. Getting them for cheap will be a good investment.

I don't plan on wearing ABUs for CAP.

[SierraOneThree]

I don't mind at all, actually. A good argument is a worthwhile one.

USAF policy is that issued ABUs may not be sold externally or worn as uniform outside USAF and select agencies, however you will not find a single CID or OSI agent who will pursue anything NY/CO. As well, they bluntly do not care, as airmen who get out keep their uniforms.

If I'm correct, also owning ACUs outside the armed forces is against Army policy. Same with them when people get out, and why both ABUs and ACUs are sold wholesale at surplus stores that are regularly checked by CID here locally.

To echo Angel's post, I've made several thousand dollars off of military clothing and equipment within the last two years, hence why I continue and own what I own.