National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[NIN]

Does it say they need to be crumpled up so they look like they got stuck in the drier door, too?

Coffee. Nose. Keyboard.

[flyboy53]

Just curious, were there any other uniform changes coming out of the National Board?

Any new badges? Any new ribbons? Anything else new?

[Flying Pig]

I'm waaaaay late on this deal with ABUs. But I think the key is the fewer patches on the ABUs the better.

[FW]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

1. We're the Air Force Auxiliary, that is our heritage and it's ingrained in our history.
2. The main proponents of BDUs I find are cadets. Many (not all or even most) SMs I encounter don't really care so much, and wear the polos, flight suits, or corporate uniforms (by choice) anyway. I've seen people wearing blues with full ribbon racks serving at SAREX mission bases, which albeit hilarious, does convey a view on the uniforms.
3. The uniforms are plentiful and available, along with footwear. Combat boots are excellent for field activities.
4. It's an easily attainable standardized look if properly worn, whereas with other field uniforms people will generally try to get away with 32345 brands of "grey trousers" or "orange tactical shirt".
5. It maintains a modicum of self-discipline at a low level. Shine your shoes, press your uniform, build up on that to build up on bigger things.

I thought our heritage as the Air Force Auxiliary is to wear Air Force blue...   Then, again, our (recent) heritage is to wear any acceptable combination we can think of...

Just curious, were there any other uniform changes coming out of the National Board?

Any new badges? Any new ribbons? Anything else new?

I doubt we will be seeing any changes from the National Board.... as it no longer exists.  However, I'm sure the Command Council or CSAG may reccomend, or request such changes via the National Uniform Committee, to the BoG. 

[JoeTomasone]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

Welcome back, RM.   

We wear them because our parent organization wears them.   By your logic, USAF shouldn't wear them outside of combat zones because they are not killing people and should want to be seen.   

We wear them because they help to identify us as part of the Air Force team.   This can be more valuable than you know when working with other agencies.  It conveys a message of professionalism and purpose, the same one you get when you see an member of the AD military.   

We wear them because we have been granted a privilege to wear the same uniform as our AD brethren, and we should be thankful to be associated with them, not questioning the trust, recognition, and honor bestowed upon us by USAF in permitting us to wear WHATEVER uniform they wear. 

[A.Member]

Here's the text from the current supplement:

Cal EMA (aka Cal OES) has suggested that in the interest of increased safety CAP members participating in
ground search activity wear the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement
nationwide. In March 2008, the CAP National Board approved a conditional exception allowing
for alternate uniforms to those defined in CAPM 39-1. In February 2009, PCR/CC and
CAWG/CC made the determination that the suggestion made by Cal EMA meets the criteria of
the exception.

Until it's revoked, it's a done deal. Suck it up. Move on. Find a different dead horse to flail on for a while.

If I was in that Wing, I'd recommend that supp be revoked - it's full of fail.  Further evidence that most supps really aren't needed. 

[A.Member]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

Asked and answered eariler in the thread.   Please read more before posting.

[Eclipse]

If I was in that Wing, I'd recommend that supp be revoked - it's full of fail.  Further evidence that most supps really aren't needed.

100% +1

[NIN]

If I was in that Wing, I'd recommend that supp be revoked - it's full of fail.  Further evidence that most supps really aren't needed.

So wait. A Wing is told by its State SAR coordination agency "We'd prefer you wore this.." and the Wing goes to National and says "Hey, our state really wants us to be dressed like this when tramping around in the woods looking for ELTs, etc.  Can we get an exception here?" and NHQ says "Hmmm, well, if the state is requesting it.." and thats evidence that supplements aren't needed? Huh?

(apart from the question of whether or not other SAR groups wear this, whether its still required, etc, of course. Apparently at one point, it _was_ required, otherwise the wing bucking a request for an exception based on a non-requirement would probably have gotten noticed. I'd bet the request was accompanied by documentation of the requirement from the SAR agency, and since then maybe the requirement has been removed/recinded/OBE)

It probably wasn't full of fail when it was written/approved, but it probably should have been reviewed semi-frequently for validity.

BTW, it really was more of an "exception to policy that allowed that particular part of a wing supplement" rather than a whole supplement being bogus.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Asked and answered earlier in the thread.   Please read more before posting.

:clap:

:clap:

:clap:

Flyer

[Eclipse]

The other piece of this issue is the fairly constant assertion from CAWG folks that they never get any missions, especially on the ground.

If it meant some sort of commitment to being called, I'd consider a reasonable request by our state to make uniform changes, but it would have to be
more then "we suggest" especially if they aren't calling.

Also, I'd expect to see every other volunteer helper agency in the same situation, which in this case it clearly isn't.

Also this:

...wear the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement
nationwide.

No such animal exists, so one seriously has to ask where CAWG got the idea that orange BDUs are the "national standard" (top, bottom, or otherwise),
and further, assuming it's a good idea, why out grade and insignia can't be worn on them.

So much wasted time.

[Hawk200]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

Your first post, and this is the one you make? I don't know if you're jumping in before checking the waters or if you're flamebaiting.

There is a search function on this board. Probably be a good idea to make use of it before post number 2.

[Hawk200]

I thought our heritage as the Air Force Auxiliary is to wear Air Force blue...   Then, again, our (recent) heritage is to wear any acceptable combination we can think of...

FTFY.

[abdsp51]

The other piece of this issue is the fairly constant assertion from CAWG folks that they never get any missions, especially on the ground.

If it meant some sort of commitment to being called, I'd consider a reasonable request by our state to make uniform changes, but it would have to be
more then "we suggest" especially if they aren't calling.

Also, I'd expect to see every other volunteer helper agency in the same situation, which in this case it clearly isn't.

Also this:

...wear the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement
nationwide.

No such animal exists, so one seriously has to ask where CAWG got the idea that orange BDUs are the "national standard" (top, bottom, or otherwise),
and further, assuming it's a good idea, why out grade and insignia can't be worn on them.

So much wasted time.

Sir,

This has stemmed from the perception that bright orange was a requirement per state law to participate in SAR.  This is not the case nor has ever been the case.  This has always been a case of a "best" "recommended"  practice for emergency services and search and rescue in the state of California.  As with most places in CONUS the Sheriff is responsible for SAR in the state of Ca and can set his/her uniform policy.  CAEMA has put this out to try and guide a standard for ES in the state. 

[Eclipse]

Sir,

This has stemmed from the perception that bright orange was a requirement per state law to participate in SAR.  This is not the case nor has ever been the case.  This has always been a case of a "best" "recommended"  practice for emergency services and search and rescue in the state of California.  As with most places in CONUS the Sheriff is responsible for SAR in the state of Ca and can set his/her uniform policy.  CAEMA has put this out to try and guide a standard for ES in the state.

We get that, but to what end?

Is CAP the "first called" for ground search?  Have missions increased since the adoption?

Do other agencies in similar circumstances wear the same uniform?

[Flying Pig]

When I was in CA, everyone on ground SAR in my county and the surrounding counties wore orange shirts. Nobody would be hitting the search area dressed in camo.  Arriving on scene looking like the rest of the kids goes a long way considering the Sheriff can send you home. 
When CAWG GTs started wearing the orange it made them look more professional. It was a good step in the right direction.  As I mentioned in earlier discussions, my area doesnt use CAP GTs because of an issue a CAP member created 10+ yrs ago that hasnt been forgotten.  As far CD, High Bird and other aviation missions CAP seems to be a lot more accepted. 

[a2capt]

..and it's not the Uniform that matters. It's what's in the Uniform. If the agency has a 10 year grudge, and is letting that get in the way, then a "we wanna be like you" pet project uniform change isn't going to fix it.

It's both sides' loss.

But I'm sure that Joe Average Sheriff's Dep't. has never had anyone inside it's ranks be a total screw up either, right?

[jeders]

As I mentioned in earlier discussions, my area doesnt use CAP GTs because of an issue a CAP member created 10+ yrs ago that hasnt been forgotten. 

So what you're saying is that it has absolutely nothing to do with uniforms and everything to do with individual personalities.

[SierraOneThree]

Just for kicks, and out of curiosity to see how much conflict can stir up...

Put these together using old patches I had laying around.

Proposed uniform:


vs

Seemingly preferred version (leaning this way):

[Eclipse]

Why do you have ABUs?