National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[Shuman 14]

1 Manual to rule them all!

Thank you Gandalf the Blue.   

[PHall]

Ok so I have seen a lot of uniform statements and questions, but I have one that I believe is unique to PA Wing. We are required by state law to wear orange covers because of the common hunting in our state. Because the colors of the ABU's are not designed for a woodland environment will we be allowed to wear the ABU cover? or would we be required to keep our orange covers, which to be honest would be horrific if combined with the ABU's.

There is a state law that mandates the color of CAP uniform caps?  I am both intrigued and skeptical.  Can you cite the statute, please?

Yeah just like it's state law the CAP Ground Teams wear an orange shirt in Ca for SAR. 

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

[Eclipse]

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Does it say they need to be crumpled up so they look like they got stuck in the drier door, too?

[Private Investigator]

Either way you cut it, this is a cool uniform development. I would hope that people would show some restraint and limit what insignia is worn. Too much bling on what is essentially a utility or field uniform and it really doesn't look that professional.

(Emphasis mine)

Which Civil Air Patrol are YOU in? 

You *know* that people are gonna clown suit the hell out of this. Because they can.

Let the clowning begin   

[Hawk200]

At least part of the angst is due to the when and how of it being added.  HWSRN added the flag during a period of controversial change in CAP's history, and that fact alone is enough for some people to have uber-angst. 

My issue was that HWSRN talked of "one CAP, not a bunch of little CAP's" removed wing patches from one shoulder, and added the flag to the other. If he wanted to show a single national organization, replacing wing patches with a flag would have been more appropriate. We could have used the same flags that we used on flightsuits. (I do know one individual that took the flag off the left shoulder of his flightsuit and put one on the right. It was a bit of a bear to get him educated as to which uniforms this change applied to.)

Some just don't like the fact that it's a reversed flag like the Army wears, etc., etc.

Wasn't really an issue to me. Just pulled Velcro off a couple Army flags and sewed them on. It was a win in that I didn't have to go buy anything else, but I still think left handed flags would have been a better choice.

[Garibaldi]

You *know* that people are gonna clown suit the hell out of this. Because they can.

Like this.

"I don't go out with girls anymore, I live a life of danger (the rest is unsuitable for CAPTalk)... Wheee! I'm a Ranger!"   

Yeah we used that about the Pennsylvania Ranger program back in the early 80s.

[a2capt]

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Is it actually a regulation, or was it someone's pet project to push it through so we "looked like the agency"? Because it certainly did -not- stop us from working with them before, and at least from my vantage point I've not seen a pickup in missions because of it.

[Eclipse]

At least part of the angst is due to the when and how of it being added.  HWSRN added the flag during a period of controversial change in CAP's history, and that fact alone is enough for some people to have uber-angst. 

My issue was that HWSRN talked of "one CAP, not a bunch of little CAP's" removed wing patches from one shoulder, and added the flag to the other. If he wanted to show a single national organization, replacing wing patches with a flag would have been more appropriate. We could have used the same flags that we used on flightsuits. (I do know one individual that took the flag off the left shoulder of his flightsuit and put one on the right. It was a bit of a bear to get him educated as to which uniforms this change applied to.)

I believe he tried that and a lot of Wing CC's wouldn't go for it.  Even today we have wings with required wing patches.

I can't begin to imagine why anyone thinks that's important enough to waste a sheet of paper on a supplement.

[PHall]

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Is it actually a regulation, or was it someone's pet project to push it through so we "looked like the agency"? Because it certainly did -not- stop us from working with them before, and at least from my vantage point I've not seen a pickup in missions because of it.

It came down from Cal OES. As in "if you wish to participate in missions for us then you need to follow our regulation."
So the Wing then came out with the CAWG Ground Team uniform which has been approved IAW CAPM 39-1 by the PACR/CC and the CAP/CC.

[Patterson]

Ok so I have seen a lot of uniform statements and questions, but I have one that I believe is unique to PA Wing. We are required by state law to wear orange covers because of the common hunting in our state. Because the colors of the ABU's are not designed for a woodland environment will we be allowed to wear the ABU cover? or would we be required to keep our orange covers, which to be honest would be horrific if combined with the ABU's.

There is a state law that mandates the color of CAP uniform caps?  I am both intrigued and skeptical.  Can you cite the statute, please?

Yeah just like it's state law the CAP Ground Teams wear an orange shirt in Ca for SAR. 

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Not even close!  PAWG wears orange ballcaps because the Hawk Mountain Rangers wore orange ballcaps, rangers took control of the wing and the current wing commander is too afraid to go against the ranger group and their demands.

[SarDragon]

You need to sort your quotes. They are mixing commentary about Hawk, and CAWG. HPall's quote was addressing CAWG policy, not HAWK.

[Mitchell 1969]

Ok so I have seen a lot of uniform statements and questions, but I have one that I believe is unique to PA Wing. We are required by state law to wear orange covers because of the common hunting in our state. Because the colors of the ABU's are not designed for a woodland environment will we be allowed to wear the ABU cover? or would we be required to keep our orange covers, which to be honest would be horrific if combined with the ABU's.

There is a state law that mandates the color of CAP uniform caps?  I am both intrigued and skeptical.  Can you cite the statute, please?

Yeah just like it's state law the CAP Ground Teams wear an orange shirt in Ca for SAR. 

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

I've heard that, but never actually seen any regulation or directive. Would you happen to know where I can find it?

[CAP4117]

Apparently I'm the only one who is super excited about this:

Received this via email:

CORPORATE
Eliminate the floppy bow tie
Increase the badges to 4

Is it being replaced by the tie tab?
Either way, there will be much rejoicing  :clap:

[Mitchell 1969]

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Is it actually a regulation, or was it someone's pet project to push it through so we "looked like the agency"? Because it certainly did -not- stop us from working with them before, and at least from my vantage point I've not seen a pickup in missions because of it.

It came down from Cal OES. As in "if you wish to participate in missions for us then you need to follow our regulation."
So the Wing then came out with the CAWG Ground Team uniform which has been approved IAW CAPM 39-1 by the PACR/CC and the CAP/CC.

That's the part where I have trouble understanding this. I can't picture OES telling a Sheriff or Fire Chief that regulations require them to wear a uniform mandated by OES.  And, like I said earlier, I can't find it anywhere - the trail always seems to lead from a CA Wing ES type to a vague reference to "OES insists," but nothing actually from OES. Eventually, the rest of us take it on face value.

[a2capt]

Yup, and if you look at the various Sheriff Dept SAR units, you'll find a mix of uniforms, as well as the Explorer units through California. Mostly dark green pants and light tan shirt, some use orange, but a great many of them don't.  You'd think they'd have a lot more pull with agencies where there's payroll involved. Plus the words "it's been suggested" have been used from Wing, not "we were required", and I'm pretty convinced that was because a few people made a big deal, and the squeaky wheel got the oil.


After all, you've got to take the top off at the mission base, and you can -not- do anything else while in that uniform, and that part is actually in a regulation.

[lordmonar]

Nope, not a State Law. Just a regulation of the State Agency we work for.

Is it actually a regulation, or was it someone's pet project to push it through so we "looked like the agency"? Because it certainly did -not- stop us from working with them before, and at least from my vantage point I've not seen a pickup in missions because of it.

It came down from Cal OES. As in "if you wish to participate in missions for us then you need to follow our regulation."
So the Wing then came out with the CAWG Ground Team uniform which has been approved IAW CAPM 39-1 by the PACR/CC and the CAP/CC.

That's the part where I have trouble understanding this. I can't picture OES telling a Sheriff or Fire Chief that regulations require them to wear a uniform mandated by OES.  And, like I said earlier, I can't find it anywhere - the trail always seems to lead from a CA Wing ES type to a vague reference to "OES insists," but nothing actually from OES. Eventually, the rest of us take it on face value.

+1  I think it is the story that CAWG told the NB way back when. 
A quick google search for California Volunteer Search and Rescue.....comes up with a number of county level volunteer organizations......with a multitude of uniforms.  Some of them are the orange shirt and pants....but Ventura countl SAR has a red/black coat,  an a brown shirt in some of their team photos.  Orange county SAR reserves are all wearing black T-shirts and dark green police uniforms.  San Jose wears blue shirts with white lettering.

So.....I call the BS flag on "it came down from OES".

[bosshawk]

The SAR team in CA that I belong to uses bright red shirts and khaki pants.  If anyone really cares, I know the deputy chief of LE for CA OEM and I could ask him about this orange shirt thing.  I haven't cared enough up to this point to even bother asking him.  The CAWG "uniform" came about under a previous CC and you all know how things change with the seasons(?).

[R Nolen]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

[SierraOneThree]

My question is why do we wear BDU's, ACU's or any other camo uniform?  We are not a combat organization:  we save people, not kill them.  And we don't need to hide from anyone:  we want to be seen.  Ditch all camo uniforms. Bring back the ultramarine jump suit or maybe a lighter-colored version of the field uniform.

1. We're the Air Force Auxiliary, that is our heritage and it's ingrained in our history.
2. The main proponents of BDUs I find are cadets. Many (not all or even most) SMs I encounter don't really care so much, and wear the polos, flight suits, or corporate uniforms (by choice) anyway. I've seen people wearing blues with full ribbon racks serving at SAREX mission bases, which albeit hilarious, does convey a view on the uniforms.
3. The uniforms are plentiful and available, along with footwear. Combat boots are excellent for field activities.
4. It's an easily attainable standardized look if properly worn, whereas with other field uniforms people will generally try to get away with 32345 brands of "grey trousers" or "orange tactical shirt".
5. It maintains a modicum of self-discipline at a low level. Shine your shoes, press your uniform, build up on that to build up on bigger things.

[SarDragon]

Here's the text from the current supplement:

Cal EMA (aka Cal OES) has suggested that in the interest of increased safety CAP members participating in
ground search activity wear the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement
nationwide. In March 2008, the CAP National Board approved a conditional exception allowing
for alternate uniforms to those defined in CAPM 39-1. In February 2009, PCR/CC and
CAWG/CC made the determination that the suggestion made by Cal EMA meets the criteria of
the exception.

Until it's revoked, it's a done deal. Suck it up. Move on. Find a different dead horse to flail on for a while.