National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[NIN]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Just as an FYI, its not permitted for CAP to officially acquire DoD uniforms with IFF technologies in them per that policy.

There is some question about acquiring them thru private sale from non-DoD sources.

Someone really oughta tell the folks who are SELLING those uniforms on Ebay that they're probably helping people run afoul of the DoD. 

[Eclipse]

I don't mind at all, actually. A good argument is a worthwhile one.

USAF policy is that issued ABUs may not be sold externally or worn as uniform outside USAF and select agencies, however you will not find a single CID or OSI agent who will pursue anything NY/CO. As well, they bluntly do not care, as airmen who get out keep their uniforms.

If I'm correct, also owning ACUs outside the armed forces is against Army policy. Same with them when people get out, and why both ABUs and ACUs are sold wholesale at surplus stores that are regularly checked by CID here locally.

To echo Angel's post, I've made several thousand dollars off of military clothing and equipment within the last two years, hence why I continue and own what I own.

Excellent - no point in actually adhering to the policy as set forth by the parent service of the uniform you actually wear.

"You can't stop me, therefore I will..."

Good luck with your Spaatz exam.

[AngelWings]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Just as an FYI, its not permitted for CAP to officially acquire DoD uniforms with IFF technologies in them per that policy.

There is some question about acquiring them thru private sale from non-DoD sources.

Someone really oughta tell the folks who are SELLING those uniforms on Ebay that they're probably helping people run afoul of the DoD.

Many military items have restrictions. For example, MREs have a restriction on non-government sale. There was a huge witch hunt a few years back to stop people from selling MREs, until the DoD realized that they were wasting their resources hunting down their sale. Most DoD policies regarding sale and resale of military items are disregarded, ensuing a witch hunt, and ending with "this is a waste of our time" type of reaction.

I don't mind at all, actually. A good argument is a worthwhile one.

USAF policy is that issued ABUs may not be sold externally or worn as uniform outside USAF and select agencies, however you will not find a single CID or OSI agent who will pursue anything NY/CO. As well, they bluntly do not care, as airmen who get out keep their uniforms.

If I'm correct, also owning ACUs outside the armed forces is against Army policy. Same with them when people get out, and why both ABUs and ACUs are sold wholesale at surplus stores that are regularly checked by CID here locally.

To echo Angel's post, I've made several thousand dollars off of military clothing and equipment within the last two years, hence why I continue and own what I own.

Excellent - no point in actually adhering to the policy as set forth by the parent service of the uniform you actually wear.

"You can't stop me, therefore I will..."

Good luck with your Spaatz exam.

You should tell this to all of the people who get out of the military who sell their uniforms too. They must be just as, if not more, disrespectful as this cadet and many people deserve the same admonishment and disgust as you share with this cadet. 

[SierraOneThree]

I was just about to mention the MREs, you beat me to it...

Also, respectfully sir, if you're going to tell me to back down from being disrespectful I will. However, sarcasm does nothing to bolster your standing.

[Eclipse]

I was just about to mention the MREs, you beat me to it...

Also, respectfully sir, if you're going to tell me to back down from being disrespectful I will. However, sarcasm does nothing to bolster your standing.

I'm being serious.  Ethics are what we do when no one is watching.
When you know you're doing something that you shouldn't, even if no one can stop you, how you react is a testament to your ethics.

[abdsp51]

I don't mind at all, actually. A good argument is a worthwhile one.

USAF policy is that issued ABUs may not be sold externally or worn as uniform outside USAF and select agencies, however you will not find a single CID or OSI agent who will pursue anything NY/CO. As well, they bluntly do not care, as airmen who get out keep their uniforms.

If I'm correct, also owning ACUs outside the armed forces is against Army policy. Same with them when people get out, and why both ABUs and ACUs are sold wholesale at surplus stores that are regularly checked by CID here locally.

To echo Angel's post, I've made several thousand dollars off of military clothing and equipment within the last two years, hence why I continue and own what I own.

Wrong it is DOD policy not AF policy,  and it is not up to OSI what cases they pursue or do not pursue.  Again you do not know what you are talking about.  Your attitude sucks and is unbecoming of a C/Maj and frankly you have already admitted to going against the core values in this thread.  Be thankful you are not in my squadron as we would definitely be having a long chat about your conduct here.  And in fact you are setting a fine example of what a cadet officer should not be doing. 

[NIN]

OK, I want to win a bet. Someone call someone else a Nazi so we can end this.

[AngelWings]

OK, I want to win a bet. Someone call someone else a Nazi so we can end this.

People here are regulation nazis. They will dig for rules to say that they're right, you're wrong, even if they don't follow all of the rules themselves. Good enough? 

[a2capt]

You can't win that bet, for you've already unduly influenced the outcome and expressed your bias. Otherwise the thread is a valid debate.

[Eclipse]

Observer's Paradox.

[SierraOneThree]

Wrong it is DOD policy not AF policy,  and it is not up to OSI what cases they pursue or do not pursue.  Again you do not know what you are talking about.  Your attitude sucks and is unbecoming of a C/Maj and frankly you have already admitted to going against the core values in this thread.  Be thankful you are not in my squadron as we would definitely be having a long chat about your conduct here.  And in fact you are setting a fine example of what a cadet officer should not be doing.

I sat through a fairly long session with CID about people selling stolen Army NODs. I got a fairly thorough briefing on the duties of CID and OSI, and they claimed otherwise.

Nothing in my last post was guided by emotion, merely fact. It is DOD policy yes, USAF no, mistake made (probably because I've gotten 2 hours of sleep and am on plenty of medication). Previously in this thread my exasperation leaked through. I did however admit it, which is more than most will do.

I have seen in this thread that people who have opinions are getting upset because people are standing by opinions that are contrary or different. I am all for respect as I think it's already strongly lacking. Syntax is key here, as I've admitted my disrespect, to be met with further disrespect from people who are under the impression that they themselves are being respectful. You want it, don't start out by rejecting different or contrary ideas, or by making gross suppositions. I'm attempting to be blunt, and if this is construed as disrespectful, oh well I guess.

[lordmonar]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Well....that's a stretch.  If they were not legal to own....then you certainly couldn't buy them at surplus stores.

[AngelWings]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Well....that's a stretch.  If they were not legal to own....then you certainly couldn't buy them at surplus stores.

EBay would have barred their sale already, which again, would be the case with what happened to MREs.

Wrong it is DOD policy not AF policy,  and it is not up to OSI what cases they pursue or do not pursue.  Again you do not know what you are talking about.  Your attitude sucks and is unbecoming of a C/Maj and frankly you have already admitted to going against the core values in this thread.  Be thankful you are not in my squadron as we would definitely be having a long chat about your conduct here.  And in fact you are setting a fine example of what a cadet officer should not be doing.

I sat through a fairly long session with CID about people selling stolen Army NODs. I got a fairly thorough briefing on the duties of CID and OSI, and they claimed otherwise.

Nothing in my last post was guided by emotion, merely fact. It is DOD policy yes, USAF no, mistake made (probably because I've gotten 2 hours of sleep and am on plenty of medication). Previously in this thread my exasperation leaked through. I did however admit it, which is more than most will do.

I have seen in this thread that people who have opinions are getting upset because people are standing by opinions that are contrary or different. I am all for respect as I think it's already strongly lacking. Syntax is key here, as I've admitted my disrespect, to be met with further disrespect from people who are under the impression that they themselves are being respectful. You want it, don't start out by rejecting different or contrary ideas, or by making gross suppositions. I'm attempting to be blunt, and if this is construed as disrespectful, oh well I guess.

It's CAPTalk, don't take it personally. Look at most of the arguments, it happens a lot.

[abdsp51]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Well....that's a stretch.  If they were not legal to own....then you certainly couldn't buy them at surplus stores.

You and I both know that the average AF member either doesn't know or care and gets rid of things. 

[SierraOneThree]

You and I both know that the average AF member either doesn't know or care and gets rid of things.

The airmen and women may not know, but I guarantee you that the surplus store owners do, at least the ones here locally. They get visiting by CID every few weeks and reject anything that isn't permitted by what the CID folks tell them.

One owner knew and didn't care, he's now out about $30,000 because of the NODs he had in his backroom, and everyone working in the shop was prior service, with two former SF airmen.

[abdsp51]

Wrong it is DOD policy not AF policy,  and it is not up to OSI what cases they pursue or do not pursue.  Again you do not know what you are talking about.  Your attitude sucks and is unbecoming of a C/Maj and frankly you have already admitted to going against the core values in this thread.  Be thankful you are not in my squadron as we would definitely be having a long chat about your conduct here.  And in fact you are setting a fine example of what a cadet officer should not be doing.

I sat through a fairly long session with CID about people selling stolen Army NODs. I got a fairly thorough briefing on the duties of CID and OSI, and they claimed otherwise.Nothing in my last post was guided by emotion, merely fact. It is DOD policy yes, USAF no, mistake made (probably because I've gotten 2 hours of sleep and am on plenty of medication). Previously in this thread my exasperation leaked through. I did however admit it, which is more than most will do.

I have seen in this thread that people who have opinions are getting upset because people are standing by opinions that are contrary or different. I am all for respect as I think it's already strongly lacking. Syntax is key here, as I've admitted my disrespect, to be met with further disrespect from people who are under the impression that they themselves are being respectful. You want it, don't start out by rejecting different or contrary ideas, or by making gross suppositions. I'm attempting to be blunt, and if this is construed as disrespectful, oh well I guess.

1) CID does not dictate nor establish or are really in the know about what OSI does or does not do. 

2)  No one rejected different or contrary ideas, what was rejected was your presentation of said ideas.  And you have a long way to go about learning to be blunt and to the point. 

3) Again as has been stated before do your homework and research before speaking.   

[abdsp51]

You and I both know that the average AF member either doesn't know or care and gets rid of things.

The airmen and women may not know, but I guarantee you that the surplus store owners do, at least the ones here locally. They get visiting by CID every few weeks and reject anything that isn't permitted by what the CID folks tell them.

One owner know knew and didn't care, he's now out about $30,000 because of the NODs he had in his backroom, and everyone working in the shop was prior service, with two former SF airmen.

FTFY

And your point being what other than these people have no common sense and a lack of ethics and integrity? And you if you are doing business with this establishment then you are aiding them. 

[AngelWings]

And actually it is not legal for you to own ABUs in any aspect as is current DOD policy. 

Well....that's a stretch.  If they were not legal to own....then you certainly couldn't buy them at surplus stores.

You and I both know that the average AF member either doesn't know or care and gets rid of things.

Would you treat them the same as you've said you'd treat Sierra too? Or are they exempt?

[Eclipse]

You and I both know that the average AF member either doesn't know or care and gets rid of things.

The airmen and women may not know, but I guarantee you that the surplus store owners do, at least the ones here locally. They get visiting by CID every few weeks and reject anything that isn't permitted by what the CID folks tell them.

One owner know and didn't care, he's now out about $30,000 because of the NODs he had in his backroom, and everyone working in the shop was prior service, with two former SF airmen.

OK, so now you're a dealer and have dealt with "CID"?

[AngelWings]

Eclipse, by any chance are you a politician?