Search is being funky. Final word on the 1st Sgt Diamond

[Eclipse]

Actually, the KB is dated Feb 2012, and the most recent 52-16 is Feb 2011.

Actually the most recent version of 52-16 is June 2011, the word diamond does not appear in that version, and First Sergeant is
only mentioned once in reference to another publication.

What a mess.

We've got to get away from all these cross-conflicting publications as well as the "M / P/ R" hierarchy and just start publishing clear instructions that
are updated timely.

[jeders]

Actually, the KB is dated Feb 2012, and the most recent 52-16 is Feb 2011.

Actually the most recent version of 52-16 is June 2011, and the word diamond does not appear in that version, and First Sergeant is
only mentioned once in reference to another publication.

What a mess.

Yes, I forgot the change in June 2011.

This is, however, one of those issues, much like the beret and ranger tabs were. Some people are going to use it no matter what, and some are going to ban it no matter what. And until we get clearer guidance from higher headquarters, all we can do is direct the areas we have direct control over.

I for one have absolutely no problem with the diamond being worn currently, but I also wouldn't have any heartburn if it went away forever.

[Eclipse]

I for one have absolutely no problem with the diamond being worn currently, but I also wouldn't have any heartburn if it went away forever.

Yep - ditto.

And just like all the other inconsequential, but much-debated topics, this could be closed with two sentences from NHQ.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Guess I'll bring it up with the new Deputy of Cadets and the new unit commander. :p

[jeders]

Until national gives us those two lines, that's all you really can do.

[lordmonar]

Eclipse you were correct on the dates. The knowledgebase article was dated from 2003 and the newest editions of 39-1 and 52-16 are from 2005 and 2006 respectively.

Note the KB article was UPDATED 29 Feb 2012......and references  the Feb 2012 CAPP 52-15.

And yes this is one of the reasons why CAP is in the state that it is....not because local commander's take liberty....(and yes they do)....but because NHQ can't write a clear regulation and can't seem to enforce those regulations.

When MAWG encampment has a smokey bear wearing, star sporting command chief..........who cares if the Homer J. Simpson Cadet Squadron has a diamond wearing First Sergeant.

[/RANT]

[Garibaldi]

Eclipse you were correct on the dates. The knowledgebase article was dated from 2003 and the newest editions of 39-1 and 52-16 are from 2005 and 2006 respectively.

Note the KB article was UPDATED 29 Feb 2012......and references  the Feb 2012 CAPP 52-15.

And yes this is one of the reasons why CAP is in the state that it is....not because local commander's take liberty....(and yes they do)....but because NHQ can't write a clear regulation and can't seem to enforce those regulations.

When MAWG encampment has a smokey bear wearing, star sporting command chief..........who cares if the Homer J. Simpson Cadet Squadron has a diamond wearing First Sergeant.

[/RANT]

You didn't notice the diamond on his collar?

[Danger]

1st Sergeant is a billeted rank, so if you are chosen to be your squadron's first sergeant you wear a diamond on your SNCO grade. Your grade will be Msgt, SMSgt, or CMSgt. But you will have the 1st Sgt billet. So even if you are a chief you are still addressed as "First Sergeant"

[Eclipse]

if you are chosen to be your squadron's first sergeant you wear a diamond on your SNCO grade.

The point of this thread is that yo probably don't anymore...

[LGM30GMCC]

1st Sergeant is a billeted rank, so if you are chosen to be your squadron's first sergeant you wear a diamond on your SNCO grade. Your grade will be Msgt, SMSgt, or CMSgt. But you will have the 1st Sgt billet. So even if you are a chief you are still addressed as "First Sergeant"

And you are not addressed or referred to as 'First Sergeant'. At least not properly.

We don't call anyone 'Commander So and So' or say 'Yes PRP Monitor!'

You'll occasionally here one on AD called 'Shirt' or something like that. But more commonly and more properly they are still referred to as 'Sergeant So and So' or 'Chief So and So'

You may say 'Hey you need to speak to the First Sergeant about that'

I would be very happy if cadets and seniors would stop perpetuating this.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The diamond was, indeed, authorized, as I recall. It goes back to the days before we expanded cadet grades to include the senior and chief master sergeant grades. Sounds like it was dropped from a regulation somewhere along the line, possibly an inadvertent omission. Anyone care to dig back through old regs and cite?

[SarDragon]

The digging has already been done, and posted on several other threads.

The diamond disappeared from CAPR 52-16 one or two iterations ago. I'm not sure it was ever mentioned in CAPM 39-1.

Regardless of any past mention in our governing publications, it is gone now, and, IMHO, no longer authorized.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

You expect me to wade through all those threads? Sheesh.... 

[SarDragon]

OK, here's a better reference: a recent letter from NHQ . It's also attached in the CAPP 52-24 thread.

I looked on the CAPVA 52-100 , and there is ZERO mention of the diamond.

Given the highlighted places in the letter, and the VA, I think the case is firmly closed.

[Extremepredjudice]

They are refering to the command chief insignias, nothing about diamonds.


CAN NED LAY THIS ONE TO REST ONCE AND FOR ALL? Please?

[AngelWings]

For some reason the subject is like cat food for prawns (if you get the reference, I salute you). They've made a national disaster out of a simple simple slap on the wrist, "don't ever let me catch you doing that again!", and more repetition of compliance. It's the CAPTalk way. The attitudes of the people or the actual success of the encampment (which I've heard to be very successful and a wonderful time for all involved) doesn't matter, but "OH MY GOSH YOU WORE THAT!?! BEHEAD THAT MAN AT ONCE!"

Logic had its brains splattered all over the wall a long time ago when it came to this and the 1st SGT diamonds. The 1st SGT diamonds shouldn't be worn per lack of regulation, done deal. If someone is wearing them, no harm, no foul, it is an unclear subject, correct it and move on. We all know that the command cheif thing was wrong, so EP makes a point, it should just die and we can all move. We've killed another horse and are brutally beating it with a ranger rolled Mass state trooper hat.

[SarDragon]

They are refering to the command chief insignias, nothing about diamonds.


CAN NED LAY THIS ONE TO REST ONCE AND FOR ALL? Please?

Command Chief, as in star? That has never, to the best of my knowledge, spanning bits of six different decades, been authorized. Nor has it ever been an official position.

As for First Sergeant Diamonds, the original subject of this thread if you recall, my previous post still applies.

[Private Investigator]

1st Sergeant is a billeted rank, so if you are chosen to be your squadron's first sergeant you wear a diamond on your SNCO grade. Your grade will be Msgt, SMSgt, or CMSgt. But you will have the 1st Sgt billet. So even if you are a chief you are still addressed as "First Sergeant"

One summer I had a C/SSgt that was our First Sergeant and she found a 'diamond' somewhere to place above her C/SSgt cutout.

[Critical AOA]

You guys are more fixated on diamonds than some women I've dated.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Not that I'd pull the trigger, but maybe on of our ABU cadets can ask the National Commander via eServices on this one.