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Public Affairs Training

Started by RiverAux, July 04, 2021, 01:04:01 PM

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RiverAux

I recently listened to a podcast where they were discussing the Coast Guard public affairs program.  Apparently, this is now being conducted as a joint service school, including the Air Force, and is now a 6-month (rather than 3 month) program.  CAP has been upping its public affairs and public information officer game to some extent and I wonder if this joint training might filter down to CAP in some way. 

etodd

As a slight sidetrack:  CAP folks will mention going out and recruiting more pilots.  But I don't hear as much about how we should also be looking for Public Affairs, Media Relations, and Media Reporter types of people from the corporate world. They could quickly ramp up into a CAP position. (Well, after learning the CAP way of doing it.)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: etodd on July 04, 2021, 10:30:16 PMAs a slight sidetrack:  CAP folks will mention going out and recruiting more pilots.  But I don't hear as much about how we should also be looking for Public Affairs, Media Relations, and Media Reporter types of people from the corporate world. They could quickly ramp up into a CAP position. (Well, after learning the CAP way of doing it.)

We do good to recruit ground-pounders and fly boys.

We don't do a great job at recruiting for the rear echelon.

Eclipse

PA should be done at the National and Wing level and no lower.

There's no Wing that is doing so much that Wing-level PAOs couldn't keep
up with news story insertions, and NHQ could concentrate on NATIONAL stories.

"That Others May Zoom"

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 08:00:12 PMPA should be done at the National and Wing level and no lower.

There's no Wing that is doing so much that Wing-level PAOs couldn't keep
up with news story insertions, and NHQ could concentrate on NATIONAL stories.

Hard disagree. An active PAO program has been a cornerstone for one of my local squadron's largest growth hike in its history.

Restricting squadrons from doing it if their commander wants them to is just slightly more silly than the current regs that require squadrons to do it even if they don't want to.

Leave it open to the commanders, don't shackle them with overly restrictive regs.

Eclipse

Commanders, or other members, who "want to do it" would be assigned as A/PAOs
at the wing level.

Commanders who don't "want to do it" aren't then shackled to something they
have no interest in or need of.

Done.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Assigned and vetted at the wing level, at there is some chance of
consistency of message, format, and FSM help us, and the use of spell and grammar check.

Left to their own devices, the majority of units wind up with happenstance postings
"when they remember", which is not a "plan", tinged with the occasional unit that randomly
scores someone with actual experience and expertise, and those guys usually stick around
a year or so until they get either fed up or pulled up (to higher HQ).

It's the economy of scale coupled with the odds that at a state level you can generally
cobble a team together that will work pretty well, vs. most units who have neither the time, nor
the interest, so you get what CAP has now.

Having someplace a unit can send a story to someone else, who is then responsible for
proofing and posting is what I would hazard the majority would really appreciate.

"That Others May Zoom"

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 11:48:20 PMCommanders, or other members, who "want to do it" would be assigned as A/PAOs
at the wing level.


And then when you have bad leadership in the wing the squadron PAO program suffers. No thanks. Already saw that show play out. Results UNSAT.

Eclipse

You don't create programs based on anecdotal poor performance of random players.

That's how CAP is in the situation it's in.

No one trusts anyone to just do their job (nor are most held to a standard or
face ramifications for poor performance).

"That Others May Zoom"

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on July 07, 2021, 02:01:54 AMYou don't create programs based on anecdotal poor performance of random players.

That's how CAP is in the situation it's in.


It isn't anecdotal, I can provide a direct comparison between two squadrons of comparable demographics and two different leadership styles in wing PA.

That changes things from anecdotal to data.

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on July 07, 2021, 02:40:33 AMThat changes things from anecdotal to data.

Sample size is too small compared to the total number of squadrons.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 08:00:12 PMThere's no Wing that is doing so much that Wing-level PAOs couldn't keep
up with news story insertions

Let me introduce you to my Wing PAO...  *cough*
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on July 07, 2021, 11:18:50 AM
Quote from: Holding Pattern on July 07, 2021, 02:40:33 AMThat changes things from anecdotal to data.

Sample size is too small compared to the total number of squadrons.

And yet it is more data than you've EVER brought to the table on the subject.

Eclipse

You don't need to "bring data" for an assertion you're not making.

Your sample size is essentially "1" - literally the definition of "anecdotal" in
regards to statistics.

The comments I made are demonstrably true based on publicly available information,
mainly the posts, or lack thereof, that support my assertion.

To bring it around to my beloved tires - on average a driver will experience
5 flats in their lifetime.

Countering that with "I've never had a flat..." is irrelevent as the sample is too small.

"That Others May Zoom"

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on July 07, 2021, 09:09:49 PMYou don't need to "bring data" for an assertion you're not making.

Your sample size is essentially "1" - literally the definition of "anecdotal" in
regards to statistics.

The comments I made are demonstrably true based on publicly available information,
mainly the posts, or lack thereof, that support my assertion.

To bring it around to my beloved tires - on average a driver will experience
5 flats in their lifetime.

Countering that with "I've never had a flat..." is irrelevent as the sample is too small.

2 separate squadrons using 2 methodologies over time, one of them being your way (let wing do PAO work) the other being my way (focus squadron PA efforts) makes it 4 separate data points, 2 of them confirming your way fails, 2 of them confirming my way works.


RiverAux

Okay, this is now way far afield from the original post, but I'll play. 

Having been a Wing PAO I can very confidently assert that there is no way that I could have provided anywhere near the same level of service to the unit that a squadron PAO can.  At a bare minimum you have to have a very good finger on the pulse of the unit so that you know when something that is worth PA attention happens.  Squadron commanders have way too much on their hands to keep a Wing PAO apprised of these events. 

If squadron commanders were required to submit regular narrative reports of their activities and important events, then yeah, I could use that as the basis for generating local coverage for them as well as content for the CAP outlets.  However, even that would be significantly hampered by the loss of timeliness that is critical for local media coverage.  If they sent in a monthly report, no local paper, not even a weekly, is going to be that interested in something that may have happened 4-6 weeks ago. 

How can I say all this?  Because as Wing PAO I tried to basically act as the squadron PAO for about 7 squadrons that lacked active PAOs and it just didn't work.   

Just like we really need an ES officer in every squadron to both train the members and maintain local relationships, we need a PAO in every unit.  The reality is that we don't have the number of people interested and capable of doing it, so we make do.  But, the solution to this problem isn't to eliminate the local positions. 

Spam

Waitwaitwait... does that count as seven, or as one?  I'm finding it hard to keep score here. At what p value are we declaring statistical significance, anyways? I'm always an inning behind, sigh...

(Dang, need more popcorn... please, do go on)!

Cheers
Spam

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on July 07, 2021, 09:39:47 PMOkay, this is now way far afield from the original post, but I'll play. 

Having been a Wing PAO I can very confidently assert that there is no way that I could have provided anywhere near the same level of service to the unit that a squadron PAO can.  At a bare minimum you have to have a very good finger on the pulse of the unit so that you know when something that is worth PA attention happens.  Squadron commanders have way too much on their hands to keep a Wing PAO apprised of these events. 

If squadron commanders were required to submit regular narrative reports of their activities and important events, then yeah, I could use that as the basis for generating local coverage for them as well as content for the CAP outlets.  However, even that would be significantly hampered by the loss of timeliness that is critical for local media coverage.  If they sent in a monthly report, no local paper, not even a weekly, is going to be that interested in something that may have happened 4-6 weeks ago. 

How can I say all this?  Because as Wing PAO I tried to basically act as the squadron PAO for about 7 squadrons that lacked active PAOs and it just didn't work. 

Just like we really need an ES officer in every squadron to both train the members and maintain local relationships, we need a PAO in every unit.  The reality is that we don't have the number of people interested and capable of doing it, so we make do.  But, the solution to this problem isn't to eliminate the local positions. 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything here, my assertion is trying to end the conversation
and lack of "anything" in favor of accepting reality and getting "something" done.

There's a few things that stand out...

"Required" isn't a word that functions within CAP, and the organization needs to
discontinue its use, because there's nothing behind it when you can barely keep the doors open.

Further to the above, the fact that the  majority of units do not, and have never had,
any sort of functional PA plan, yet continue to grow, or not via the same happenstance
which has been the core of CAP for 80 years is proof that PAOS aren't necessary at the unit
level, much like a number of other positions which are affectations of the USAF model that
doesn't fit CAP and are largely unfilled anyway.

Again, looking to Scouting, which despite its current...ahem..."issues"...still asserts 2+ million
members. They leave the majority of the administrative nonsense to paid people at the council level
or higher and leave the units to just do Scouting Stuff.

I've done a lot of things in both orgs, I don't recall ever having Scout meetings that involved
PA plans, or AE plans of action - we just went out and did "stuff". Curriculum and plans was done
outside the rank and file and no one seemed to suffer for it.

Maybe that's why CAP has about .01 of the membership.

But I know, you can't compare the two orgs, even though the membership is essentially the
same demo, and the general goals align.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

One could argue that one of the reasons that most CAP units don't really grow and are hanging on by a thread is at least partly due to a poor public affairs program. 

And I wasn't suggesting that narrative reporting should be required.  I stated that even "if" it were required, it  would allow a remote PA to fulfill some of the PA duties, but not all, and not well. 

And, as discussed in a previous thread, trying to compare the Boy Scouts to CAP in terms of local units and public affairs needs is ludicrous. 

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 12:48:34 AMOne could argue that one of the reasons that most CAP units don't really grow and are hanging on by a thread is at least partly due to a poor public affairs program.

It would be hard to argue that, which is why having it done at the Wing level makes sense.
NHQ can't even compel unit to have a web or social presence, let alone any sort of standardization
(which the attempt at was, I think we'd all admit, kind hilarious).

At least if it was "done" at the National or Wing level it would, in fact, be "done", and any
decent template page farm could knock that out, including SEO in a few hours with 10 photos and
a .csv.

Same goes for Social presence - just do it, and stop saying "we should", "you will", etc.
There are services that can do it with 8 clicks, nationwide, 3 times a day.  Take some of that
sweet Amazon Smile money and put it toward something actually useful.

Done.

Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 12:48:34 AMAnd I wasn't suggesting that narrative reporting should be required.  I stated that even "if" it were required, it  would allow a remote PA to fulfill some of the PA duties, but not all, and not well. 

The thing is, it used to be, many moons ago, the result being people just didn't, like so many other things
in CAP that are "required".

Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 12:48:34 AMAnd, as discussed in a previous thread, trying to compare the Boy Scouts to CAP in terms of local units and public affairs needs is ludicrous.

This is demonstrably false despite the fact that people don't want to admit it.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2021, 01:07:16 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 12:48:34 AMAnd, as discussed in a previous thread, trying to compare the Boy Scouts to CAP in terms of local units and public affairs needs is ludicrous.

This is demonstrably false despite the fact that people don't want to admit it.
Please demonstrate how one of a dozen or more Scout units in an average city made up of a dozen kids and one or two adults in an organization that 95% of Americans know about is equivalent to a 30-40 person composite squadron in that same city with an airplane, van, and both youth leadership and ES missions in an organization that 5% of Americans (maybe) know about in terms of public affairs needs and opportunities. 

The only way that they are similar is the highest scout/cadet achievement may get a story in the newspaper if someone puts their mind to it. 


Eclipse

How does it compare?  Not very favorably, good we can agree on that point.

95% of people are aware of Scouting due specifically to their outreach on
a national and local level.  You know ads, PSAs, that sort of thing.
(though admittedly they appear to be laying low right now).

CAP and Scouting's demographic is almost a full overlap on a Venn - it recruits
from the same age pool, same gender pool, same geographic areas, and the same general intention
of structure and purpose.  In fact, the organizations share a significant number of
members both adult and adolescent.

As to vans and planes, that is essentially irrelevant to the discussion as
the number of units with those resources is maybe 20-25%? And in most cases
that aren't in any way dedicated to that unit, they are simply in proximity.

For every CAP unit with a CFI, there are 5+ that don't ever get near an aircraft,
and just meet weekly in a loop as they always have, in the same general way Scouts
do.  If anything, the idea that Scouting is all that "different" from CAP in regards
to the adolescents is a significant detriment to CAP. Maybe if it didn't think it was
so "special" in that regard things would be better.


"That Others May Zoom"

JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2021, 08:00:12 PMPA should be done at the National and Wing level and no lower.

There's no Wing that is doing so much that Wing-level PAOs couldn't keep
up with news story insertions, and NHQ could concentrate on NATIONAL stories.
You appear to have NO CLUE what a local PAO is or does.

What is it you do in CAP again, aside from carping?

etodd

What varies widely now is the availability of "local media outlets" at a PAO's disposal. The media in our area is no longer locally owned. The dozens of reporters down to a couple. And they don't have time for human interest stories.  They chase the ambulance and police.

So to get the word out for folks like us has changed to social media. Its much less Public Affairs .. and more toward marketing and advertising.  Its a whole different mindset and methodologies. The old AP Stylebook went out the door. Its catch phrases and one liners that get attention. Its photos and videos that make one pause and stop scrolling.

I've seen a few efforts in CAP  Hdqs toward this, but its a long haul to get there. Hence my mentioning toward the top of recruiting actual marketing and ad agency type people. But, if recruited, many of their ideas (that would work) might get shot down as not following PAO standards of writing, when its apples and oranges.  PA  isn't hard sell advertising.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

jeders

Quote from: etodd on July 08, 2021, 02:49:55 AMSo to get the word out for folks like us has changed to social media. Its much less Public Affairs .. and more toward marketing and advertising. 

Ding ding ding, you've just hit the nail on the head.

Quote from: undefinedIts a whole different mindset and methodologies. The old AP Stylebook went out the door. Its catch phrases and one liners that get attention. Its photos and videos that make one pause and stop scrolling.

And this is exactly why PA needs to be done (or at least coordinated through/controlled by) wing or above. Right now if you look across the various social media platforms, you find 1000 different brands called CAP with only occasional consistency across them. As a result, there is no unified brand like what BSA has/had. By moving PA/Marketing responsibility up to wing and above, the brand can unified and we can start to build our way forward.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

etodd

Quote from: jeders on July 08, 2021, 01:32:11 PMAnd this is exactly why PA needs to be done (or at least coordinated through/controlled by) wing or above. Right now if you look across the various social media platforms, you find 1000 different brands called CAP with only occasional consistency across them. As a result, there is no unified brand like what BSA has/had. By moving PA/Marketing responsibility up to wing and above, the brand can unified and we can start to build our way forward.

See ^^^ you just combined PA and Marketing. I'm maintaining there is a huge difference in press releases (PA)  and marketing/advertising.

If a squadron is planning an open house or other recruiting event where the public is invited, the marketing needs to be local, and on their social media pages, using photos and video of their actual squadron. Folks at Wing and higher will not be doing this for every squadron.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

jeders

Quote from: etodd on July 08, 2021, 05:58:18 PMSee ^^^ you just combined PA and Marketing.

Because externally, they are the same thing. It doesn't matter if we're advertising an open house, the 50th WINGS graduate, or responding to a murderous cadet love triangle, there needs to be a consistent message. That's how McDonald's, Nike, the BSA, and others get brand awareness and brand loyalty. If we want to stop being "America's best kept secret", we need to start marketing ourselves better.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Capt Thompson

There is no way a Wing PAO can cultivate relationships with local media outlets for every Squadron in their Wing. True, most media outlet are down to a few reporters, including the media outlet I freelance for, but they are starving for well written stories to fill their meager pages. If I send out a well written press release, it gets published in multiple outlets every time. What they don't have time for is a poorly written release that they will have to have a reporter follow up on, that ends up in the circular filing cabinet every time, but a well written newspaper ready story with a handful of well framed and captioned images will get published, because it's free filler for them without having to devote any resources aside from 5 minutes of time from the paginator.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

RiverAux

Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2021, 01:33:22 AM95% of people are aware of Scouting due specifically to their outreach on
a national and local level. 
Wrong, it is word of mouth.  When your organization is already massive and pervasive throughout the country you are getting most of your recruits through word of mouth.  CAP gets some benefit of this, but only at those schools that have cadets in them that might spread the word.

 
Quote from: jeders on July 08, 2021, 01:32:11 PMAnd this is exactly why PA needs to be done (or at least coordinated through/controlled by) wing or above. Right now if you look across the various social media platforms, you find 1000 different brands called CAP with only occasional consistency across them. As a result, there is no unified brand like what BSA has/had. By moving PA/Marketing responsibility up to wing and above, the brand can unified and we can start to build our way forward.
Nope, you've got it backwards.  A Wing social media program is going to have extremely limited visibility in or around towns with existing squadrons. You need the local squadron to have their own presence that gets picked up within their own local networks and spreads there if it is to be of any use. 

Yeah, some things can be done at Wing level, but public affairs also includes a lot of in-person contacts, speeches at meetings of other groups, etc (if you're doing it right).  The Wing PAO, even with assistants, just can't do that part of it. 

Eclipse

Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 08, 2021, 06:40:19 PMThere is no way a Wing PAO can cultivate relationships with local media outlets for every Squadron in their Wing.

first - Yes they can, most wings have maybe 30-40 units ish, that's less that 30 counties
ish of media contacts, not really a big deal over a months time when most units won't have anything to post anyway.

And the majority of media outlets these days have submission channels that are mostly automated.
You don't need to buy coffee for some guy with a press card in his fedora, you just need to
copy and paste into a web form or send an email.

If your job is PAO, and you're doing your job, then this is not a big deal.  If you "don't have time" because
you have 8 other CAP jobs, well there you go.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 07:18:00 PMYeah, some things can be done at Wing level, but public affairs also includes a lot of in-person contacts, speeches at meetings of other groups, etc (if you're doing it right).  The Wing PAO, even with assistants, just can't do that part of it. 

These things don't happen now.

You're negating the idea because of an edge case that is rarely an issue.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Social Media Marketing Person ..... needs to be a wholly different position than the PAO.

Different strategies .. and different timelines for sure. Social Media can be realtime, or even several times a day.

Press releases are most often cold ... "just the facts" reporting of events.

Advertising and Marketing is designed to get people excited. A different use of language and visuals.

But this is "gov't", so I'm not expecting any changes.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

RiverAux

Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2021, 08:05:51 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on July 08, 2021, 07:18:00 PMYeah, some things can be done at Wing level, but public affairs also includes a lot of in-person contacts, speeches at meetings of other groups, etc (if you're doing it right).  The Wing PAO, even with assistants, just can't do that part of it. 

These things don't happen now.

You're negating the idea because of an edge case that is rarely an issue.

They aren't done because we don't have enough people so that every unit can be doing this like they should.  This is actually demonstrating the need for public affairs activity at a local level. 

Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2021, 08:04:34 PMAnd the majority of media outlets these days have submission channels that are mostly automated.
True, but the problem isn't submitting the news item, it is knowing that something newsworthy has happened.  Without a local PAO to identify these instances and follow-up by producing the story you have nothing.  Such items do not naturally flow up the chain of command and over to the Wing PAO.  Even with constant badgering of squadron commanders you just aren't going to know about the somewhat routine, but still adequately newsworthy events.  You may (or may not) hear about that once a decade extremely cool thing that happened at a local field exercise that makes an awesome story.

RiverAux

#33
[ed - Deleted duplicate post.]

JohhnyD

#34
Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2021, 08:04:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 08, 2021, 06:40:19 PMThere is no way a Wing PAO can cultivate relationships with local media outlets for every Squadron in their Wing.

first - Yes they can, most wings have maybe 30-40 units ish, that's less that 30 counties
ish of media contacts, not really a big deal over a months time when most units won't have anything to post anyway.

And the majority of media outlets these days have submission channels that are mostly automated.
You don't need to buy coffee for some guy with a press card in his fedora, you just need to
copy and paste into a web form or send an email.

If your job is PAO, and you're doing your job, then this is not a big deal.  If you "don't have time" because
you have 8 other CAP jobs, well there you go.
Again you appear to have NO CLUE what a PAO team does. Or the disparity in talent from Wing to Wing and unit to unit.

So let me clue you in.

Local media relations are still a big deal and not at all reasonable for a Wing PAO to do.

Social media, which, if I recall correctly, you despise, is a big deal. (We have three or more people just on that segment of PA work.) (And near totally dependent on the depth and breadth of the LOCAL connections of the members who engage with your SM program.)

Corporate, civic, social, educational (public and private), and service organizational dialogue and liaison work.

Legislative, and executive governmental relations.

Interfacing and working closely with the unit and Wing fundraising teams.

We have a team of cadets, parents, and senior members involved in the above. There is no way that upper echelons could do what we do. Period. If they could - they would. They can't and they don't.

[snark elided]

NovemberWhiskey

Your squadron runs a governmental relations program out of its public affairs team?

JohhnyD

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 09, 2021, 01:43:25 AMYour squadron runs a governmental relations program out of its public affairs team?
We do with the engagement of the Wing GR folks and at the specific direction of the CC. We work with our local officials, including local legislators in informing them about who we are and what we do. The "asks" are outside our area of responsibility and left to the Wing folks.

JohhnyD

Quote from: etodd on July 08, 2021, 09:14:58 PMSocial Media Marketing Person ..... needs to be a wholly different position than the PAO.

Different strategies .. and different timelines for sure. Social Media can be realtime, or even several times a day.

Press releases are most often cold ... "just the facts" reporting of events.

Advertising and Marketing is designed to get people excited. A different use of language and visuals.

But this is "gov't", so I'm not expecting any changes.

We include all of that and more in our PA program. It takes a TEAM.

RiverAux

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 09, 2021, 01:43:25 AMYour squadron runs a governmental relations program out of its public affairs team?
The squadron ES officer is also supposed to be maintaining local government relations, so its not crazy for it be done at the squadron level. 

Capt Thompson

So if we get rid of Squadron PAO's, and leave it entirely up to the Wing, where does Wing get trained PAO's? Any time Wing posts for a staff position, they are always looking for someone with a Senior or Master rating, where do Senior rated PAO's come from if we eliminate the unit positions? Wing PAO is a high turnover position already, so how much more turnover do you think we would have if we eliminated the training at the Squadron level, and then dumped all of the Squadron PAO duties on the Wing PAO? You'd have a new Wing PAO every couple months at best.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

JohhnyD

Quote from: RiverAux on July 09, 2021, 11:45:50 AM
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 09, 2021, 01:43:25 AMYour squadron runs a governmental relations program out of its public affairs team?
The squadron ES officer is also supposed to be maintaining local government relations, so its not crazy for it be done at the squadron level. 
Indeed, and we integrate that into our PA efforts as well. PA is not one thing, it is many things, and many hands make for light(er) workloads.

Eclipse

Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 09, 2021, 12:25:09 PMhere does Wing get trained PAO's? Any time Wing posts for a staff position, they are always looking for someone with a Senior or Master rating, where do Senior rated PAO's come from if we eliminate the unit positions? Wing PAO is a high turnover position already, so how much more turnover do you think we would have if we eliminated the training at the Squadron level, and then dumped all of the Squadron PAO duties on the Wing PAO? You'd have a new Wing PAO every couple months at best.

They are trained, consistently and in a standardized way, by the Wing PAO.
Initial assignment is as an A/PAO reporting only to Wing in that capacity as
initially suggested.  This can be done remotely as most things are these days.

The reality is that posting stories about cadets launching rockets, SARExs, and open houses
isn't difficult. Setting a standard, a tone, and using spell and grammar check seems to be.

And on the whole there is no "Squadron training" to speak of.  It's all adhoc, "figure it out OJT".

"That Others May Zoom"

JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on July 09, 2021, 01:46:15 PMThey are trained, consistently and in a standardized way, by the Wing PAO.
Circular reasoning. And our Wing PAO has no time, getting the WING work done is a massive effort.

ALL CAP training is self-motivated. The issue is command climate. A hostile command client results in zero PA work being done. A positive climate develops amazing results. We are proof of that. And any unit can do this, they just need that positive command climate and a "spark-plug" member.

Eclipse

#43
Quote from: JohhnyD on July 09, 2021, 04:40:58 PMa "spark-plug" member

Reliance on "saviors" instead of having structured top-down programs that
recognize national realities, not local circumstance and personality-based
success, is responsible for the current CAP climate.

Brute-force effort by a few people in spite of headwinds works until those
people get fed up, or are told "no" by a superior at which point they quit
and everything evaporates.

Any unit counting their success on "spark plug members" is destined to fail.
Seen it dozens of times, especially in areas where one or a small number of members
believes they have some unique idea or ability outside the norm of
regular CAP cycles and programs.

"That Others May Zoom"

fyrfitrmedic

For years I've heard a weak public affairs presence defended with "everyone should be a PAO."
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

Holding Pattern

Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on July 09, 2021, 07:54:57 PMFor years I've heard a weak public affairs presence defended with "everyone should be a PAO."

The answer to that is to say "Great, let's hold mandatory monthly PA training, just like we do for safety because "Everyone is a safety officer.""

JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on July 09, 2021, 04:56:03 PMReliance on "saviors" instead of having structured top-down programs that
recognize national realities, not local circumstance and personality-based
success, is responsible for the current CAP climate.
Really? That is an opinion.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 09, 2021, 04:56:03 PMBrute-force effort by a few people in spite of headwinds works until those
people get fed up, or are told "no" by a superior at which point they quit
and everything evaporates.
Yep. That is why the command climate matters. A good unit CC and a good Wing CC and you can win. The rotten ones destroy.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 09, 2021, 04:56:03 PMAny unit counting their success on "spark plug members" is destined to fail.
Seen it dozens of times, especially in areas where one or a small number of members
believes they have some unique idea or ability outside the norm of
regular CAP cycles and programs.
I can believe that. But it is more likely that the command climate sucked than any other reason. But our experience suggests that your narrow views are reflective of command climate because we have seen both worlds and the results are striking. BTW it has nearly NOTHING to do with NHQ.

RiverAux

I obviously disagree with this idea, but I believe that earlier he proposed having a team at Wing level do all the PAO work, so you could have PAOs learning to do the job as part of the team and working their way up. 

I find this unworkable.  As I was never able to find anyone to even be assistant Wing PAO for me.  The few active squadron PAOs just didn't want to leave their squadron and go to Wing (one of them was also the squadron commander in a tiny squadron). 

JohhnyD

Quote from: RiverAux on July 09, 2021, 11:34:09 PMI obviously disagree with this idea, but I believe that earlier he proposed having a team at Wing level do all the PAO work, so you could have PAOs learning to do the job as part of the team and working their way up. 

I find this unworkable.  As I was never able to find anyone to even be assistant Wing PAO for me.  The few active squadron PAOs just didn't want to leave their squadron and go to Wing (one of them was also the squadron commander in a tiny squadron). 
I agree. This is a solution in search of a problem.

The real problem is leadership. Toxic leadership, to be precise.

Absent that, our PA program does OK. When nurtured by positive leadership, it can do amazing, repeatable, shareable successes.

RiverAux

Quote from: Eclipse on July 09, 2021, 01:46:15 PMThe reality is that posting stories about cadets launching rockets, SARExs, and open houses
isn't difficult.

No, it isn't really.  But, if you're the Wing PAO finding out that the rocket launch happened at Podunk Cadet Squadron 3 hours from you is the problem. 

By the way, I have this same problem in my CG Auxiliary Division (sort of like a CAP group) where I am the newsletter editor.  There are really no active local public affairs folks in any of the flotillas and despite begging to be given any scrap of intel about what is going on in flotillas other than my own and offering to re-write it into something decent, I have a very hard time piecing together a newsletter. 

Exactly the same situation I was in as Wing PAO when offering to do all the PA work for squadrons without a PAO. 
 

Luis R. Ramos

The reality is that cadets do not like to give AARs. We ask them to write AARs about things they do. It is like pulling teeth. So I write the AARs of the activities I do, but cannot write AARs about the ones I am not present.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

baronet68

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 10, 2021, 10:31:21 PMThe reality is that cadets do not like to give AARs. We ask them to write AARs about things they do. It is like pulling teeth. So I write the AARs of the activities I do, but cannot write AARs about the ones I am not present.

Odd, I've had the exact opposite problem where cadets seem to LOVE doing AARs.  It might be because we set AARs up as the cadets' way to provide positive/negative feedback in an environment that is safe and free from retaliation.  One or two senior members usually lead the discussion and then a pair of cadets is asked to write up the discussion notes. 
Michael Moore, Lt Col, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 10, 2021, 10:31:21 PMThe reality is that cadets do not like to give AARs. We ask them to write AARs about things they do. It is like pulling teeth. So I write the AARs of the activities I do, but cannot write AARs about the ones I am not present.

Maybe you're doing the AAR ineffectively.

Try doing it as a conversation/verbal debrief. Have a list of talking points and have a collective of the cadet staff present. Run down the questions, and have someone take notes. Then transpose those notes onto an AAR report.

Any activity debrief should be conducted as a staff meeting, not a "go home and write about it." Without a dialogue, and without people there to ask questions or comment, it's ineffective.

The purpose of an AAR is not to be homework (or even just a Staff Duty Analysis). It's to note positive areas to sustain and negative areas for improvement. If they don't see the value in it, they won't appreciate doing it.

The same goes for Public Affairs. If you ask someone to write a newsletter, and they're just sitting at home and supposed to write about what's on their mind, they won't do it. They need to talk to other people and do interviews.

I'm not sure that the issue is really just a training problem. I think engagement is the problem.