CAWG CC Fired

[JohnKachenmeister]

THAT is the one exception to the rule, BlackKnight!

[LtCol White]

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - Pastor Martin Niemöller

GIVE ME A BREAK! 

Please, now we're equating the removal of office of board member who had ADMITTED financial "irregularities" to genocide? Get over yourself!

And by your further comments, Mrs. Hayden, you yourself feel part of the persecuted class, despite the fact that your partner has ADMITTED in public to cheating on a test?

....please.  Save it.

You know what, I am by no means an apologist for CAPFLT001, I have strong feelings, expressed here and elsewhere, about his actions, and his alleged history, but come on.  THIS IS HOW THE "REAL" WORLD WORKS!

We all want to play in the military pool?  Guess what, welcome to the social, because in the RealMilitary®, very little is done by consensus of the rank-and-file membership, or by committee.

In many cases, unilateral decisions by a single commander are all it takes to remove "good" people from authority, with little to no recourse.

Why do they do it?  Sometimes, "because they can...".

We call strong, decisive personalties that we agree with "leaders", and those we don't "tyrants".

Do I like it?  No.

Is it "right"?  Maybe not.

Want stronger affiliation with our "brothers in blue"?  Get used to it.

I think that is a bit extreme. She was using that quote as an analogy as to what happens when people stand idly by and watch things occur when perhaps something can be done before it gets out of hand.

I don't think the tone in your reply was called for. She was expressing her opinion and not insulting, attacking or making assumptions about anyone who had commented. She was quite polite in stating her opinion.  Obvioulsy, you disagree in your opinions. In this country, no one gets dragged away for that.

[ZigZag911]

But as CAP officers, at some point we have to show loyalty to our elected officals even if we don't like or agree with his policies and leadership style.

In some instances -- and after the nonsense that has gone on under this administration, it seems to me we passed that point months ago -- loyalty must be earned.

[ZigZag911]

So, it stands to reason that there'd be a certain degree of slack in that matter, but also it is a politically backed item within CAP & proving it doesn't work on a large wing scale is not good for one staying in command. That's the political reasoning laid on top of the process-story I stated before. Fact is we just don't know & don't need to speculate.

There is a terrific episode of "The West Wing" in which a new member of the White House staff is presented with a dilemma to see if he is capable of "speaking truth to power".

Whether or not wing banker is a good idea, the point here is that what we need are working solutions to real problems -- in other words, objectivity rather than politics as usual.

Substance truly is more important than perseption.

As for not needing to speculate, this is OUR organization, and its time we stood up and reminded corporate officers that they are "trustees" of our fiduciary interests....they want to go corporate rather than military, fine....maybe it's time for the 'stockholders' to speak up!

Don't need to speculate?  Why, is it top secret?? CAP needs far MORE transparency, not less!!!

Also, far more accountability!!!

[JohnKachenmeister]

But as CAP officers, at some point we have to show loyalty to our elected officals even if we don't like or agree with his policies and leadership style.

In some instances -- and after the nonsense that has gone on under this administration, it seems to me we passed that point months ago -- loyalty must be earned.

Zig, let me ask you.  Putting the cheating allegation aside, since it is thus far an unproven one, what EXACTLY are you talking about when you refer to "The Nonsense?"

He has, from what I have seen, made some judgement calls with respect to senior people.

Every general I ever saw did that.

I've seen generals relieve company commanders over rumours.  I sawe a battalion commander relieved on the spot because a sergeant in one of his companies was having an affair with a female in a different company within the same battalion.

Fair or unfair, right or wrong, generals surround themselves with who they want.

[ZigZag911]

AFAIK, the replacement has never been a squadron or group commander, yet he is now the commander of one of the three largest wings in the organization. Something's fishy, methinks.

YMMV.

Numerous corporate officers  have been appointed in recent years with ZERO prior command experience at subordinate levels, some in fact with as little as 3 years CAP experience (no prior military, nothing of that sort)

[ZigZag911]

But as CAP officers, at some point we have to show loyalty to our elected officals even if we don't like or agree with his policies and leadership style.

In some instances -- and after the nonsense that has gone on under this administration, it seems to me we passed that point months ago -- loyalty must be earned.

Zig, let me ask you.  Putting the cheating allegation aside, since it is thus far an unproven one, what EXACTLY are you talking about when you refer to "The Nonsense?"

He has, from what I have seen, made some judgement calls with respect to senior people.

Every general I ever saw did that.

I've seen generals relieve company commanders over rumours.  I sawe a battalion commander relieved on the spot because a sergeant in one of his companies was having an affair with a female in a different company within the same battalion.

Fair or unfair, right or wrong, generals surround themselves with who they want.

He has put incompetent, unqualified, inexperienced people in corporate officer slots -- or has allowed himself to be persuaded to doso -- for no better reason than that they would vote as told at NB.

Such hubris, such irresponsibility is unforgivable in ANY officer, let alone CAP's two star national commander.

I have been around CAP many, many years. I've seen the "outs" get "in", and vice versa.

The difference in times past was that, while you may not have liked or particularly agreed with the new crowd, there was never any question that they had "paid their dues" going up the chain, and knew what in blazes they were doing!!!

[Mrs. Lisa Hayden]

Thank you for your kind words Col. White.

Unfortunately, I know more than I care to about the current commander and the people who are being pushed out are of such high caliber that it speaks to his motives as not being in the best interest of CAP.

[LtCol White]

Thank you for your kind words Col. White.

Unfortunately, I know more than I care to about the current commander and the people who are being pushed out are of such high caliber that it speaks to his motives as not being in the best interest of CAP.

You're welcome. Aside from the public events since he became NHQ CC, I know nothing of him personally therefore I do not comment on any of them. Appearances of it all are not good but as I said, I dont think I have any 1st hand knowledge to comment on details. I believe on speaking from experience on matters of this nature.

[flyguy06]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I dont think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you werent going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

[lordmonar]

But as CAP officers, at some point we have to show loyalty to our elected officials even if we don't like or agree with his policies and leadership style.

In some instances -- and after the nonsense that has gone on under this administration, it seems to me we passed that point months ago -- loyalty must be earned.

Negative ghost rider.....he earned his right to our loyalty by being voted in as our national commander.  And any lack of loyalty on our part is grounds for removal....such as the regional commander who invited a the former vice commander who was actively trying to undermine the National Commander's authority.

Sorry that is just the way it is.  You challenge up but support down....this is follower-ship 101!

I hear a lot about the 40 commanders who have been canned....has it really been that much?  How many quit for reasons having nothing to do with the National Commander?  I know of a lot of high profile people who were asked to resign for cause....but that is the kicker....for cause.  If you live in a supposed hot political environment you got to make sure you [mess] don't stink.

Again...that is just the way it is.

No one has said as far as I know that the CAWG CC was fired for lack of integrity.  (they were not stealing the money)...but they may have been fired for incompetence as it applies to the finances and/or their behind the door report with National/Wing.

Again...I am only speculating.....but sometimes when things get bad...like during an inspection...tempers get hot....you say something you don't mean...and the boss fires you!

It may not be that at all.  It may just be the simple fact that the blue money got put in the red pot.  The CC should have know that this was wrong, should never had allowed it be put there and should have corrected it immediately.  When audited, the error was found, national notified and the National Commander ordered her removed from office.

Again...all that is just speculation.

But so is 90% of the "General Peneda has a plan" bunch.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it so long as good officers take their finger of their number for more than a second.

If we want to put a stop to this.  We need to communicate to the BoG.  They are the only ones with the ability to stop him.   I wonder how many of you who are upset about the supposed political firings have sent an E-mail or letter to someone on the BoG?  Who has voiced their opinion to the BoG about the idea of modifying the constitution to allow the National Commander two terms?  I heard a lot of grousing here and on CAP Blog.  Anyone follow up?

I for one don't care.....I know that I have not been effected by any of this yet.  I understand that the CAWG CC was a great person and was liked by a lot of people.  But bottom line is she screwed up and got canned.

So the moral of the story is...don't screw up....and use the appropriate channels to voice your dissatisfaction.  Open dissent only sets you up for the ax when next it comes....and open disloyalty IS CAUSE FOR DISMISSAL.  I would fire you if you worked for me and you were telling everyone and their brother that I was out of control.  As you would if one of your subordinates was undermining your authority within your unit.

[jason.pennington]

I'm sorry!  I do not want to bring up uniforms, but....

As I watched the vote for the US CAP nametape during the Winter Board mtg, I was strucked by the number of people that DID NOT speak up against this idea.  TP asked over and over and got no response (or rather I could not hear them since the microphones in the room were not working well!).  I am new to all this about the inner workings of CAP, so does the NB usually just keep their mouths shut and raise their hands to vote in agreement with the National Commander?  Is that what he is looking for?

When is his term up?

[shorning]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I dont think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you werent going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

I'm glad someone caught it.  Too bad it had to be explained...

[lordmonar]

I'm sorry!  I do not want to bring up uniforms, but....

As I watched the vote for the US CAP nametape during the Winter Board mtg, I was strucked by the number of people that DID NOT speak up against this idea.  TP asked over and over and got no response (or rather I could not hear them since the microphones in the room were not working well!).  I am new to all this about the inner workings of CAP, so does the NB usually just keep their mouths shut and raise their hands to vote in agreement with the National Commander?  Is that what he is looking for?

Well that is the rub.  Some will say that the National Commander has them all scared and that he has some secret agenda that includes springing un listed proposal on the NB and that any dissent will result in removal.

Or some will say...in the case of the U.S. CAP branch tapes....that it was some last minute addition (there is no requirement for a proposal to suggested and added to the agenda before hand as far as I know).  That no one could come up with a reason not to vote for it and it passed.  The proposal could have come from someone outside of the TP mafia.....it was BGen Coulteir (sp?) who proposed it IIRC...and there are some who would say she is definitely not part of the TP camp....I don't know.

As I said before.  There are some who see anything that goes on at NHQ to be part of some dark conspiracy to increase the power of the National Commander, move CAP away from the USAF, and to take over the Earth using subliminal messages berried in the 406 Data stream.

I just don't see it.  I see maybe someone who has strong feelings about where CAP should be going, someone who has strong feelings about what his commanders should be able to do and how they should be conducting themselves.

I do fault the National Commander for not communicating his vision for CAP to the troops.  It would certainly head off a lot of speculation on our part if we knew where he wanted to take us. 

Other than that.....missions have not dropped off.  Funding has not dropped off.  Any problems we have with local SAR agencies are the fault of people who were in charge long before Gen Peneda was elected and are not the results of his policies.  I have seen a lot of movement on a lot of optional uniforms that I don't even own.  The only thing I can say there is that my own pet wish for bling has not been elevated beyond the Wing Level as far as I know.

So...from my point of view in NVWG all is good.  Of course I have not had a CC fired.  That has got to make a lot of anxiety for those affected.  And I understand that.  Focus on the mission.  Focus on the regulations.  Do your job, do it to the best of your ability and don't sweat the politics.

When is his term up?
[/quote]

[Major Carrales]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I don't think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you weren't going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

I'm glad someone caught it.  Too bad it had to be explained...

Bupkis!

[shorning]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I don't think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you weren't going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

I'm glad someone caught it.  Too bad it had to be explained...

Bupkis!

Insightful.

[Pylon]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I don't think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you weren't going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

I'm glad someone caught it.  Too bad it had to be explained...

Bupkis!

Insightful.

Back to the topic at hand, gentlemen. Thanks.   

[pixelwonk]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

I don't think you got the irony of your post Major. You posted a message to say that you weren't going to post a message. But you posted a message. Get  it now?

I'm glad someone caught it.  Too bad it had to be explained...

Bupkis!

Insightful.

Back to the topic at hand, gentlemen. Thanks.   

Lets keep quoting.  It's like a wacky etch-a-sketch drawing.   ...and that's wholesome good fun, people.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There are two ways of looking at things.  Please, let's not get all caught up in the emotion and drama.

You guys all MAY be right.  This may well be a power-grab by TP in the time-honored traditions of Central American dictatorships and the Stalinist Era of the Communist Party.  I'll grant you that you may well be right on the money.

But...

Consider that there might be a different agenda at work.

TP has taken over a troubled organization.  Financially, we can't get an "Unqualified" audit.  We have suffered through several scandals from a lack of personal integrity among high-level leaders.  Our organization has been "Backwards-looking" for decades, resting on our laurels from World War II and failing to keep up with changes in the world around us.

Consider that TP just MAY be wanting to reshape CAP into a better organization, and to do so, he intentionally targets the "Old-Boy" network (and old girl, in the case of CA) and replaces them with people who are not connected, have no axes to grind, and who owe no one favors.

These are people who are perceived to have not "Paid their dues" in the trenches, but those who have paid those dues are now part of the problem, not part of the solution.  At least from the perspective of TP.

Whether you agree or not doesn't matter.

He's the general.  Generals can do whatever they want to shape, mold, and direct an organization.  If you don't like it, become a general yourself and fix it.

Any speculation as to TP's motives in doing what he does is just that... speculation.

I never met TP.  Don't know him.  But I can tell you he isn't doing anything that I haven't seen a lot of other generals do in the past.

[RayHayden]

For the record:

I contacted the BoG - all of them I could at the time. I contacted CAP and Air Force Personnel relating to CAP affairs about the situation that I was involved with.

At this last national meeting, while I was blogging here, Col Shupe (National IG team attorney) called me up and asked me to sign a permission slip for him, that he would fax it to me, but never did as of yet!

During our phone call, he informed me that the BoG, behind closed doors - I am shocked that so many of you do not know how much is done behind closed doors, but I digress... the BoG demanded a report on the Testingate Scandal, yet Shupe told me that he told them that the investigation was not yet completed!

He told me on the phone that he needed my Air University Transcript and that he had TP's. When I questioned him further on that, he then admitted that though he did not have TP's in hand, he had TP's permission slip (release form)... he told me he would be faxing and emailing me a copy to send back to him, but I still have yet to see it here...

I DO KNOW what TP was doing, recall he lives near me and I was in on some of what he was doing, the over all, not the fine details... he is now where he was shooting to be - yes, sorry folks, ACCORDING TO A FINE PLAN, back in 2001 when I first was aware of some of what he was up to.

I will say this, TP is NOT sharp enough to plan all this himself, he had help, some how, some way, a lot of other folks DO KNOW the fine details... ask Col Parker, suddenly whisked up to National HQ, how and what was going on... there is a very small group of very close folks to TP - these are the folks, if you look back, DO KNOW what went on and how, and why. I do know some names, not all, but some. Someone needs to grill Parker on what she knows and when and why... I'll say no more on that.

Finally, I am NOT a FORMER MEMBER of CAP. If your in Florida Wing or above, you can see my CAPWATCH report online. I am a CURRENT member in good standing. See, CAP is a NATIONAL organization and whistle blower laws cover this case. They had to stop the 2B proceedings and they are not allowed to block my membership renewal either - that is automatic harassment by default.

That would open up additional problems that they will never want, enough said on that issue.

Some folks will blast me as they do - I can take the heat, as I tell every one of the PDW classes we held, "For anything that might go wrong here, you can blame me; for everything that went right, you can thank all of these fine folks (Instructors and guests who do the hard work)". "The success of this weekend is not determined today or even next week, but as you go back to your units and put to use what you picked up here this weekend."

I say it every time folks... My personal goal in CAP was originally to fly the plane, it oddly enough became Professional Development and then to rewrite the CLC, update the SLS and UCC courses, I did not get to finish my personal goals for the organization, but I have taught HOW to create and conduct a Professional Development Weekend, I still have the original slide show from 2001 when I started teaching at Wing Conferences how to do them...

Lastly, the Pineda Puppies are right - TP has the absolute right to remove everyone and put in place whomever he wants - that is how it is, Col Linker, National IG told me so himself, and he is right. The problem is in HOW and WHY these things are happening. I have had calls from across the nation from folks who have either been removed, replaced, asked to step aside, or those who know of others that have been shafted, many are icons for CAP and it is shocking that they would be removed... even I simply thought that they had tired of a long run in a position and simply stepped aside to take a well deserved break, to learn that other things had been working... I am talking about folks that have done a wonderful job the entire time in their position and without seeking any higher job, replaced by a Pineda Puppy...

Oh, though I tossed myself in the fire - people seem to forget that part of it - Pineda was my SUPERIOR OFFICER, he knew that he was using his position and influence to seek personal gain - the clear cut definition of the problem... blast me all you want, but don't be a total moron... KNOW that he KNEW what he was asking for and requesting of me long BEFORE I had any idea that it was coming my way!

People know things folks, they can openly lie to IG, but they can not lie under oath... until then...

Ray Hayden, LtC, CAP
Florida Wing
Creator (with a lot of help) of the Professional Development Weekend in Florida Wing.

P.S. Everything I say here, in public would open me up for suit against me for BOTH slander and libel... that is... unless what I say is 100% true. See, the truth is the default defense for both slander and libel. Ask an attorney, I have hundreds as clients across the country, so I know... No lawsuit has hit my doorstep yet, and it never will, because if they sue me, I depose all of them - ALL OF THEM, let them lie under oath my friends...

Ask yourself how willing is LtC. Hayden to open himself up for a lawsuit when his business is Litigation Support Audio Video Production and Presentation... darn, that's long isn't it? Anyway, that's what it is... by the way, go to Barnes and Noble and "Books" and type in Ray Hayden... then buy my book! 

Best wishes to all and to the future of CAP, I really would have liked to rewrite the CLC, it needs it badly!