September 27, 2021, 02:19:03 pm

GTM/L: Then vs. Now

Started by Stonewall, March 24, 2021, 02:32:57 pm

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RiverAux

One might argue that at least as far back as the late 1990s (and probably much earlier than that) most ground team missions were DF missions, not actual hike through the woods GSAR tasks.  We developed the UDF position decades too late.  Granted, any UDF mission might turn out to be more challenging, but most weren't.  Drive to the local airport or marina (if you were on the coast) and do some DFing for a half hour and that was it.

I have maintained for years that missing person searches (in the woods or urban) is a real potential growth area for CAP ES, but only if we really begin to not see it as something that only cadets do.  Most states have almost no volunteer GSAR teams and only limited professional capabilities in that area and if we really made it a focus, there are many places where it could be a real, regular mission.  But, it would require recruiting a lot more non-pilot adults. 

To bring it back around to the topic, the "new" standards are much better than the old ones even if we don't use that skill a lot.  Heck, we spend most of our time training for missing airplane searches that never happen and don't see that as a problem.

Spam

Quote from: Eclipse on April 04, 2021, 07:10:50 pmNot surprising to hear how uneven execution / standards were 20+ years ago. 
Heck, they are uneven now and everything is supposed to be standardized.

This, of course, is the era of the "Monthly Membership Report" (MMR) where the CC
simply wrote directly on it near a member's name to indicate completion of
Professional Development levels.

This when I learned the phrase "P51 Hours".

Good times.

That was the MML (Monthly Membership Listing), not MMR. It was merely the roster/contact list, etc. There was a separate report (also dot matrix printed on attractive green/white striped perforated paper) called the SMTLR, or Senior Member Training Level Report. That latter report was the one which the unit/CC needed to update with red pen when someone added a new specialty track, or specialty track level. Contrary to your impression, we were not allowed to sign PD levels at the unit level; we still had to submit for higher HQ approval all the forms for courses, SLS/CLCs, conferences, and the like, and the records were updated at higher.

Until a certain point though, the only central records of 101 currency were kept at Wing level based on approved/signed CAPF100s, so members were required to hand carry currency info to be presented at a sign in desk at a mission. It was always fun (not!) when enthusiastic but ignorant members would show up with no docs, and we had to tell them to go home (getting cussed out often as not). A sample for example: a GTM (no GTM3/2/1 then) would have to show a valid/current 101, a CAP ROP, an FCC 753, a CAPF60 emerg notification card, and a current Red Cross Standard First Aid card (8 hour class). A GTL would have to add a CAP drivers license and proof of valid ARC Advanced First Aid card (40 hour class), and these classes expired every 3 years.

It is nice to have it all centrally printed, and even better to approve sign ins on line before a member ever steps to a vehicle.

V/r
Spam

Eclipse

Quote from: Spam on April 04, 2021, 08:43:57 pmThat was the MML (Monthly Membership Listing), not MMR.

I knew MM"R" didn't sound right.  As soon as I read "L" the memories flooded in. Man oh man.[/quote]

Quote from: Spam on April 04, 2021, 08:43:57 pmIt was merely the roster/contact list, etc. There was a separate report (also dot matrix printed on attractive green/white striped perforated paper) called the SMTLR, or Senior Member Training Level Report. That latter report was the one which the unit/CC needed to update with red pen when someone added a new specialty track, or specialty track level. Contrary to your impression, we were not allowed to sign PD levels at the unit level; we still had to submit for higher HQ approval all the forms for courses, SLS/CLCs, conferences, and the like, and the records were updated at higher.

The MML's I have from the period show specialty tracks for all the members. I only recall seeing these,
though to be fair, my CC at the time was fairly fast and loose with procedures.  It's not unlikely he was annotating
the wrong report, and sending that up, which wing just processed, or maybe even NHQ just did it.

It's also well within the realm that he sent them up wrong to zero response or action, and it was only
when someone complained that a call was made and someone higher fixed things.  Such were the times.

Quote from: Spam on April 04, 2021, 08:43:57 pmUntil a certain point though, the only central records of 101 currency were kept at Wing level based on approved/signed CAPF100s, so members were required to hand carry currency info to be presented at a sign in desk at a mission. It was always fun (not!) when enthusiastic but ignorant members would show up with no docs, and we had to tell them to go home (getting cussed out often as not). A sample for example: a GTM (no GTM3/2/1 then) would have to show a valid/current 101, a CAP ROP, an FCC 753, a CAPF60 emerg notification card, and a current Red Cross Standard First Aid card (8 hour class). A GTL would have to add a CAP drivers license and proof of valid ARC Advanced First Aid card (40 hour class), and these classes expired every 3 years.

((*cough*)) WMU ((*cough*))

Which was as much trouble as it was a help.



Stonewall

Almost forgot about my own thread...

I have copies of about 90% of all of my paperwork and found both of the original score cards from ECI's Scanner and Observer courses I completed.



I recall now, that I never got scanner qualified. Like most, I was not a fan of riding in the back of a 152/172 and learned that to get Observer, you only had to take the Scanner correspondence course, but did not have to get the rating. I briefly studied and passed the Scanner course and moved onto Observer.

Here is what I recall from Observer training, circa 1994-95 (took me about a year to accomplish):

- Aircrew classroom (I remember two full days)
- Scanner ECI course
- Observer ECI course
- A handful of flights (my CAPF 100 has an attached document logging two practice missions as an Observer trainee, but a total of 10.5 hours of Observer-trainee flying time)

Serving since 1987.

Dwight Dutton

Quote from: Eclipse on April 04, 2021, 07:10:50 pmNot surprising to hear how uneven execution / standards were 20+ years ago.  Heck, they are uneven now and everything is supposed to be standardized.

It should be.  But CAP has not made the change, at least not as of yet.

The last revision to CAP grounds team standards was in 2003,and thats because in 2005 FEMA began publishing standards.  As of 2017 the FEMA standards for a ground team tech. member and leader are as follows:

https://rtlt.preptoolkit.fema.gov/Public/Resource/ViewFile/8-508-1173?type=Pdf&p=11
https://rtlt.preptoolkit.fema.gov/Public/Position/ViewFile/8-509-1192?type=Pdf&p=11
https://rtlt.preptoolkit.fema.gov/Public/Position/ViewFile/8-509-1193?type=Pdf&p=11

There is an organization called NASAR that is taking the FEMA standards and creating a training syllabus to meet those.  Apparently National is at least interested, as their pitch to change over to those standards is actually published on our own website

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/18_661FE7AA13985.pdf

Any incident running under the ICS system (which is everything) will ask you what your NIMS 509 qualifications are. If you do not have those you won't match what the ICS system calls for and they can't use you.  CAP training standards do not match what is in the ICS system.  And not because they are lower, it is simply because they do not match.  You are a piece of the puzzle that doesn't fit.

The proverbial handwriting has been on the wall for 16 years now.  And the fact NESA is changing from CUL & MRO to COML & RADO, which are the official ICS versions of those two ratings, may mean it is finally happening.
Active Army: 1980 - 1984 | USAR: 1984 - 2001 | CAP: 1974 - Present  |  USCGAux: 2005 - Present

Dwight Dutton

Quote from: Stonewall on April 05, 2021, 01:45:24 pmI recall now, that I never got scanner qualified. Like most, I was not a fan of riding in the back of a 152

I think its more than most.
Active Army: 1980 - 1984 | USAR: 1984 - 2001 | CAP: 1974 - Present  |  USCGAux: 2005 - Present