CAP thinking more of AF augmentation?

Started by RiverAux, November 09, 2006, 10:58:48 PM

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RiverAux

One of my personal topics of interest is the use of CAP members to augment Air Force/Air Force Resere/Air National Guard units.  This was a fairly active topic over on CAPORTAL. 

Anyway, I log into eservices today and there is this message:
QuoteWe are trying to determine what skill sets our membership brings to the missions of CAP.  Please take a moment to update your profession under the Review/Edit My Member Info link (Personal Characteristics tab).
.

I'm wondering if they are looking at this information with an eye towards promoting use of CAP members with certain professional backgrounds to the Air Force? 

By the way, the other CG Aux/CAP members out there will quickly recognize that the list of professions CAP is using in their drop down menu for this data is actually much more realisitic than the one used by CG Aux (which has a very limited list of professions most of which have no real applicability to the CG or CG Aux).

ELTHunter

I heard not long ago from a CAP Chaplain that the AF was asking CAP Chaplains to serve tours in Iraq or Afganistan.  That's a little different because CAP Chaplains actually have to meet the same criteria as AF Chaplains.
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer

mawr

That's the first that I've heard about that, though I have heard of CAP Chaplains augmenting AF Chaplains on bases.  We have just a few more than the USAF, 676 CAP Chaplains to 664 USAF Chaplains.
Rick Hasha, Lt Col CAP

RiverAux

I'll eat my hat if any CAP member goes to a combat zone as a CAP member.  I think you got some bad intel. 

Psicorp

Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2006, 02:10:35 AM
I'll eat my hat if any CAP member goes to a combat zone as a CAP member.  I think you got some bad intel. 

In this modern era of warfare, define "combat zone".
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

JohnKachenmeister

Well, I don't think they are gonna send my barely-hanging-on-to-a-third-class-medical butt to Iraq, Iran, or any place ending in "...stan" anytime soon.  At least not in my former primary specialty of Military Police, which translated on the e-services into Airforce-ese as "Security Forces."

So, I changed it to my secondary specialty, Public Affairs.  Its more likely that I'll find work there.
Another former CAP officer

BillB

Since CAP frowns on Public Displays of Affection (PDA) I don't think they allow a Public Affair (PA)
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

ELTHunter

Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2006, 02:10:35 AM
I'll eat my hat if any CAP member goes to a combat zone as a CAP member.  I think you got some bad intel. 

The way I understand it, it's been about six weeks since I had this discussion with the Chaplain, they would not be CAP members.  I'm not sure how it would work, but the Chaplain told me they would be wearing the AF uniform, although they could they NOT have to meet the AF weight standards.

If I remember correctly, they were asking for a one-year commitment.
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer

RiverAux

Just so it was clear, when I brought this up it was in regards to CAP members augmenting AF units stateside where appropriate. 

If the AF wants to hire private contractors to be their chaplains from within CAP membership that doesn't really have anything to do with CAP. 

Psicorp

Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2006, 04:57:20 AM
Just so it was clear, when I brought this up it was in regards to CAP members augmenting AF units stateside where appropriate. 

If the AF wants to hire private contractors to be their chaplains from within CAP membership that doesn't really have anything to do with CAP. 

Way back when my father was Active Duty, it was explained to me that when the Reserves would be activated in times of crisis, they would be the ones sliding into the military bases to cover positions as the Active Duty folks deployed. Obviously that's not what's happening.   Again, this is something that we should be jumping up and down shouting, "What can CAP do for the Air Force today?"
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

RiverAux

I agree that there are lots of areas where CAP members could potentially help out but I'm becoming resigned to the fact that the AF will have to lose a lot more people before they seriously consider using CAP in this manner.  Until they're really hurting for personnel they don't really NEED us and if they don't NEED us they probably won't even consider it. 

That is what happened with the Chaplains.  They had a major need for Chaplains to fill in for deployed personnel so they figured out a way to use CAP.  That will probably be how it goes, one profession at a time, rather than opening up in general as the Coast Guard has done for its Auxiliarists.

JohnKachenmeister


Quote from: Psicorp on November 10, 2006, 01:06:12 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2006, 04:57:20 AM
Just so it was clear, when I brought this up it was in regards to CAP members augmenting AF units stateside where appropriate. 

If the AF wants to hire private contractors to be their chaplains from within CAP membership that doesn't really have anything to do with CAP. 

Way back when my father was Active Duty, it was explained to me that when the Reserves would be activated in times of crisis, they would be the ones sliding into the military bases to cover positions as the Active Duty folks deployed. Obviously that's not what's happening.   Again, this is something that we should be jumping up and down shouting, "What can CAP do for the Air Force today?"

Was your father on AD during the early 1960's?  That's when there was a plan called "Operation Recovery."  The plan worked from the assumption that manned bombers and KC-135's would lose their home bases during a nuclear attack while they were airborne.  The bombers would need to return somewhere, and the plan was to have AF Reservists report to designated civilian airfields to receive the aircraft, turn them around, and launch a second wave of strikes on the Evil Empire.  CAP was to be a part of that operation, filling in when insufficient AF Reservists reported, and assisting with flight line, weather briefings, and headquarters functions (3 hots and a cot for the crews).  The plan was abandoned by 1965, I think, but I don't know why.

IF we can do the Operation Recovery mission, why can't we do AF augmentation when Air Force bases have NOT been reduced to smoking holes in the ground?
Another former CAP officer

BillB

John it was eliminated in the mid-60's when the USAF Reserve was downsized and units consolidated. For example here at my local airport, the USAFR was assisted by CAP for several base operations. When the local reserve was consolidated at an AF base 125 miles away (McCoy AFB) much of the USAFR property was turned over to CAP. The downsizing of the USAFR was not the only reserve downsizing. the Navy Reserve unit(s) were transferred to several Navy bases 75 miles away and the Navy Reserve Center transferred to the Army Reserve. It was during this period Orlando AFB was closed with the USAF units (including the CAP-USAF LO) transfrred to McCoy also and the base turned over to the Navy for Orlando Naval Training Center.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Psicorp

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on November 10, 2006, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: Psicorp on November 10, 2006, 01:06:12 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2006, 04:57:20 AM
Just so it was clear, when I brought this up it was in regards to CAP members augmenting AF units stateside where appropriate. 

If the AF wants to hire private contractors to be their chaplains from within CAP membership that doesn't really have anything to do with CAP. 

Way back when my father was Active Duty, it was explained to me that when the Reserves would be activated in times of crisis, they would be the ones sliding into the military bases to cover positions as the Active Duty folks deployed. Obviously that's not what's happening.   Again, this is something that we should be jumping up and down shouting, "What can CAP do for the Air Force today?"

Was your father on AD during the early 1960's?  That's when there was a plan called "Operation Recovery."  The plan worked from the assumption that manned bombers and KC-135's would lose their home bases during a nuclear attack while they were airborne.  The bombers would need to return somewhere, and the plan was to have AF Reservists report to designated civilian airfields to receive the aircraft, turn them around, and launch a second wave of strikes on the Evil Empire.  CAP was to be a part of that operation, filling in when insufficient AF Reservists reported, and assisting with flight line, weather briefings, and headquarters functions (3 hots and a cot for the crews).  The plan was abandoned by 1965, I think, but I don't know why.

IF we can do the Operation Recovery mission, why can't we do AF augmentation when Air Force bases have NOT been reduced to smoking holes in the ground?

Actually, no.  He entered service in 1972 (rather than be drafted) and retired in 1995.  It was in the late 80's and during the first Gulf War that I recall reservists being brought into Active Duty Bases to "beef-up" essential services: Doctors, Nurses, EMTs, Firefighters, Administration, and some Flight Line/Operations support.
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

Chappie

Quote from: ELThunter on November 10, 2006, 01:01:57 AM
I heard not long ago from a CAP Chaplain that the AF was asking CAP Chaplains to serve tours in Iraq or Afganistan.  That's a little different because CAP Chaplains actually have to meet the same criteria as AF Chaplains.

As a CAP Chaplain, that is news to me.  I know that CAP Chaplains who meet the same academic requirements as the active/reserve USAF Chaplains and who meet the weight/grooming standards augment the USAF Chaplain Service by serving stateside when the active/reserve chaplain is deployed.   But deploying CAP Chaplains as part of the USAF Chaplain Service is not (and from my understanding will not be) taking place.

On a practical point - for the most part you have two types of CAP Chaplains.  One - those who are active in a local church.  To be deployed for a one year commitment would plan havoc to their real job.  The other is those who are retired ministers - due to health/age restrictions I can't see that as an option.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: BillB on November 10, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
John it was eliminated in the mid-60's when the USAF Reserve was downsized and units consolidated. For example here at my local airport, the USAFR was assisted by CAP for several base operations. When the local reserve was consolidated at an AF base 125 miles away (McCoy AFB) much of the USAFR property was turned over to CAP. The downsizing of the USAFR was not the only reserve downsizing. the Navy Reserve unit(s) were transferred to several Navy bases 75 miles away and the Navy Reserve Center transferred to the Army Reserve. It was during this period Orlando AFB was closed with the USAF units (including the CAP-USAF LO) transfrred to McCoy also and the base turned over to the Navy for Orlando Naval Training Center.

And McCoy Air Force Base is now Orlando International Airport.  The ICAO code remains "MCO" however.  That's another piece of useless trivia to dredge up when people wonder how you get "MCO" out of "Orlando."

And Chicago Ohare (ORD) was called "Orchard Field" until it was named after a local-boy Medal of Honor recipient.
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

I was thyinking about this issue of augmenting the Air Force while I was on base today.

Not only am I a school-trained Public Affairs Officer (Defense Information School, 1984) and therefore could step in to help in a media-intense environment or help write or edit news copy for the base rag, but...

I was a Military Policeman (Army MOS 95B) an Military Police Officer (Army SSI 31A) in addition to being a Public Affairs Officer (Army SSI 46A).

I'm a civilian-trained law enforcement officer, and a certified Accident Reconstructionist.

So plugging me into one of several slots on NHQ's computer does nothing for identification of my other skills.

I think what NHQ will have to do, if they want to augment the Air Force, is one of two things:

1.  Establish a national database of skills that can be called upon, or...

2.  Assign a CAP Augmentation Coordinator to each Air Force facility to be supported.  This coordinator would then identify the skills available among volunteers, and assign them to using agencies or activities.

In other words, I might be assigned to the base PA shop, but in the event that there was a fatal traffic accident on base, the Security Forces could call on me to assist in the investigation.
Another former CAP officer

DNall

I haven't heard anything about CAP chaplains being recruited for the sandbox or even overseas work. The traditional augment mission is volunteer service on base when they are short handed cause those guys are overseas. If the ops tempo is running htem so ragged that they see the need to recruit from CAP chap ranks, then I assume they'd be sent to the RCOT commissioning program like any other chaplain & commissioned as an officer. If they want to waive PT, ht/wt, & write teh contract for a shorter number of years, well the AF can do pretty much anything they want. I'd think it more likely they'd hire them as contractors though. Just simpler.