My Utility Uniform Proposal

[Major Carrales]

I like the idea of velcro.  Simply sell the uniform with the velcro already in the right places and, voila, pages of improper patch placement violations prevented and, corrected, on the spot.

At the Conference in Atlanta, it was said that "ALL CAP is BASICALLY LOCAL," so I would keep the option for a unit patch.  I would also keep the flag to bring home the idea that we, while not military, are in the service of the Nation. 

Generally, I like your idea Stonewall.

[Stonewall]

Simply sell the uniform with the velcro already in the right places and, voila, pages of improper patch placement violations prevented and, corrected, on the spot.

Yes, it comes with velcro already in place so that wouldn't be an issue.

[mikeylikey]

I am still getting used to looking at center chest to find someone's rank.  And I still would like Army officer guys to  be able to wear their branch.  I might someday find it important to know if I am speaking with the Chaplain or the Provost Marshall.  Also, if I am speaking to an artillery officer, I will know to talk louder.

What did you say.....repeat, over!   

So we should get a petition going around to return branch insignia!  I hate the fact I have no idea what the LT does that I am speaking to.  Before it was easy to spot fakes talking about "deployments to Afghanistan when they were wearing finance B I.  Now I don't know if the person is a Physician leading a battalion up a hill or a lawyer  in charge of transportation.  All too confusing (JK)

[mikeylikey]

SO is this officially the KBU?  Kirt Bowden Uniform!  I hope it catches on, it would streamline much!  My vote is YES. 

Is this like when Patton designed his own uniforms back in the 1930's for tankers?  Perhaps one day we will see this in the Bowden Museum. 

Now.....to get it proposed to the uniform committee.

[Major Carrales]

As I said, generally I like it.  If we were to, instead of transistioning to the ABU...go to this that could be the one place where everyone would dress in a uniform manner.

What I mean by that phrase, is that if there was ever a time to do this, during this transition would be the best time.  A sort of "time window" thing.  Place a 3 year phase out on the BBU uniform and, in time, it would catch on.  As people replace their BBU and BDUs, this could be the option that works best.

[ddelaney103]

I've posted my ideas on GrayBDU/ABU's, so I won't repeat them here.

I'd go along with it, but I'd like to avoid going all "Army-esqe" like this.

[Stonewall]

I've posted my ideas on GrayBDU/ABU's, so I won't repeat them here.

I'd go along with it, but I'd like to avoid going all "Army-esqe" like this.

I hear ya clickin' big chicken.  But until the AF allows all the fat/fuzzies in the BDU or ABU same as everyone else, it just ticks me off that we have 2 different uniforms.  I posted my thoughts in your Gray BDU thread and I'd rather do that than ABUs.  And no offense, but I like my idea better 

If you think about it, before the Army got ACUs, we were more "army-esque" than my proposed KBU above.  But I gotcha.

[wuzafuzz]

I'd go along with jut about anything that gets all of us in the same uniform.  Well almost, I wouldn't willingly wear the Hot Dog on a Stick uniform...   

[Smokey]

 The entire uniform shows zero resemblence to the Air Force, except for maybe it's heritage of white on blue nametags, so why stop there?

This statement bothers me.......because our heritage IS with the Air Force. They are our parent service.

[Stonewall]

 The entire uniform shows zero resemblance to the Air Force, except for maybe it's heritage of white on blue nametags, so why stop there?

This statement bothers me.......because our heritage IS with the Air Force. They are our parent service.

And how does the Blue BDU demonstrate our heritage to the US Air Force?  It doesn't.  In fact, I'd venture to say that the KBU is closer to being AF heritage than the BBDUs as it's green and the Army wears the same design and the AF came from the Air Force.  Where did the BBDUs come from?  Not the AF.  Again, my main goal in suggesting such a uniform is so every member of CAP can wear the same uniform instead of discriminate against a guy for being overweight or having facial hair.

[RiverAux]

By forcing everyone into a non-AF style uniform you are discriminating against those who do meet AF standards in favor of those who choose not too. 

[Stonewall]

By forcing everyone into a non-AF style uniform you are discriminating against those who do meet AF standards in favor of those who choose not too. 

Not going to get into a legal battle of what is or isn't discrimination, but I think you'd be hard pressed to discriminate against someone who met the standards.

[mikeylikey]

By forcing everyone into a non-AF style uniform you are discriminating against those who do meet AF standards in favor of those who choose not too. 

Well BDU's are no longer an AF uniform.  In fact, if memory serves BDU's are owned by the Army.  

[NewWaveKiller]

I have two questions, sir. Would the cadet grade be made on those little squares, as well? Also, wouldn't the squares be better as velcro, so as to save money when one is promoted?

[RiverAux]

By forcing everyone into a non-AF style uniform you are discriminating against those who do meet AF standards in favor of those who choose not too. 

Not going to get into a legal battle of what is or isn't discrimination, but I think you'd be hard pressed to discriminate against someone who met the standards.

You're the one who brought up "discrimination".  In effect you want to punish people who meet the standards in favor of those who can't or won't do so. 

[winterg]

It's a nice looking uniform proposal.  I'd vote in favor of keeping everything on Velcro for the simple fact that you only need to keep one set of everything that goes on your uniform.   And I think the badges pinned on wouldn't be too bad.  A good way to stick it to Vanguard! lol. But I do have a problem with the underlying issue.

Why are we focusing on creating a new uniform that would be wearable by those who do not meet standards.  Shouldn't we go the other direction and create a program that creates a healthier force with the majority of members meeting military (or CAP) standards?  Let's face it.  CAP as an organization has a serious problem with overweight and out of shape members.  You can make the argument all day long that you don't have to be in perfect physical shape to contribute to the mission.  But the fact remains, we don't get the respect from our parent organization because we don't act like we deserve it.  No wonder USAF doesn't want us in a uniform that closely resembles theirs.  We usually look like a joke.

We should spend more of our time focusing on acting and looking like auxillary members of the USAF.  I am a firm believer that we should have a PT program for officers and that there should be ONE utility and ONE dress uniform for all members.  If you don't meet standards, go on a diet and get on a treadmill or you don't wear the uniform.  Let's stop trying to find the lowest common denominator and set a higher standard.  The ACA has consistently high standards and they are allowed to wear the same uniform as their parent organization with subdued markings even!  We could learn a lot from them.

But I know I am in the minority on this issue.

[Stonewall]

By forcing everyone into a non-AF style uniform you are discriminating against those who do meet AF standards in favor of those who choose not too. 

Not going to get into a legal battle of what is or isn't discrimination, but I think you'd be hard pressed to discriminate against someone who met the standards.

You're the one who brought up "discrimination".  In effect you want to punish people who meet the standards in favor of those who can't or won't do so. 

I talked about discriminating against folks who are overweight.  Fact is, it wouldn't be discrimination at all if everyone wore the same uniform, aka had the same standard.

[BillB]

I question the cost factor to cadets on the OD uniform. Currently BDUs are available in some areas from USAF sources, such as AFROTC. The BDU phase out date for USAF is two or three years away. So the cost of the OD uniform for cadets can be a major problem for many cadets. (two sets of BDUs are required for many cadet activities)

[Smokey]

I agree somewhat with WinterG.  We do need to work on our weight issue (even though I am within standards----this Christmas season has extended my girth). While there are some that due to physical disabilities/issues have weight as an issue, the truth is.....some are just fat 'cause they eat too much and exercise to little.

A healthier weight would do us all good. Even though I fall into the AF standards, I know I could stand to loose ---well plain and simple---FAT.  I've got my home commander pointing out that I have slipped up recently and I appreciate it.

Let's face it folks....many of us really could stand to shed some pounds. So...for the sake of CAP and yourselfs....now is the time to get to work on improving our physical stature. 

Ask yourself.....Am I fit to perform??

[Stonewall]

As far as rank on velcro, NewWaveKiller, I think that's a valid point.  For cadets, it would be better to use velcro as promotions occur a heckuva lot more often than seniors.  Good point.

As for the weight issue, yes, I am fit to fight.  I carry an AF CAC card and do just fine on the AF PT test and weight standards.  But remember when CAP was formed in 1941?  It was way for those who were too young, too old, or otherwise not fit to fight to do their part for the war machine.  I think that still holds true today.  Does it give anyone a good reason to just blow off physical fitness?  Absolutely not.  If the only thing keeping you from fitting in the AF uniform is your eating and fitness habits, then there is little reason other than personal choice.  Being a new father, I can appreciate time constraints.  In fact, jobs may limit you.  As a detail leader on a personal protection team, a career that requires you to stay in shape, I struggled to manage my weight and fitness level.  I was always traveling, eating in hotels, getting messed up from time changes and limited in what and when I could eat.  Not to mention, it wasn't exactly cool to go for a jog in East Timor after dark.

Truth is, we can argue all day long about fitness standards in our all volunteer program, or we can face the fact that many of our members will resemble the average American.  By 2015 75% of the US population will be classified as obese. 

Cost is and always will be an issue for many CAP members, not just cadets.  But in my time, I've seen very few cadets have trouble buying a PSP, laptop, VHF radio, $200 Goretex boots, berets, and a number of things they truly could do without.  There will always be those few cadets.  But trust me, if CAP organized it right, the KBU could cost a lot less than the ABU.

Believe me, folks, I want everyone to be healthy and within weight requirements, but I'm a realist.  Not that I always choose the right fights, but this is one fight that I will look for other alternatives.  My guess is we'd lose 20,000 members if we mandated strict weight standards that said if you can't meet the requirement, you can't be in CAP.  Sad but true.

Another thing, this is just my idea, this whole KBU.  Just some wishful thinking, just like a lot of things thrown up on these discussion boards.  The only thing remotely close to having any real affect on NHQ's decision on uniforms is Lt Col White's NHQ Uniform discussion.  In reality, I know that my idea is just that, an idea.  Something that will never become a reality, let alone an option.  So all those not in favor, relax, nothing will change.  We'll end up having ABUs and in 4 years we'll be discussing all the negatives to go along with them.