Uniform policies if NAT/CC

[a2capt]

Using the host services' uniform solves a major issue by tapping into an already existing supply chain. Otherwise you've got to pick something off the shelf commercially, and hope that it remains available, or create a cottage industry that could fold at any minute.

[jeders]

Often wondered why CAP doesn't simply create a military style uniform that is non-Air Force

It did. It was hated by some (mostly because of who created it) and loved by many. It has since been eliminated. If you want to know more, search CAPTalk for TPU or CSU.

But this would solve the overall uniforimty issue. 

It would; but some, myself included, feel that it would distance us from the Air Force and we don't want that.

My vote would be Kahkis as a service uniform.

Shuman, is that you?

Hmmmm, now the expense.

There's the rub. By using AF uniforms as our primary uniform base, we can take advantage of economies of scale for new clothing items as well as large surplus stockpiles, particularly for blues. Of course BDUs are getting harder to find surplus in decent condition, so that argument is becoming less and less convincing, at least in regards to field uniforms. One compromise that has been floated in the past is to create/designate a single utility uniform (i.e. the Blue BDUs) but retain the AF-style service and dress uniforms.

[MIKE]

Often wondered why CAP doesn't simply create a military style uniform that is non-Air Force and move both the Cadets and SMs into it.

Somebody did,  but it wasn't non-Air Force enough...  In some respects it was more "Air Force" than the Air Force style uniform. 

IMO something that should have died in the updated CAPM 39-1, is the old style service dress for cadets and other obsolete components.  Kill it with fire!  Cadet Timmy does not need a service coat that bad.

I would have asked to authorize the black or some other color fleece with insignia with the BDU. A la the sage fleece for the ABU.

[Eclipse]

The problem with the "economies of scale" argument is that they fail when you have a single-source vendor.

[Storm Chaser]

Which if not necessarily the case with the Air Force-style service uniform.

[AlphaSigOU]

Other than CAP cadets, the only ones wearing the old-style service dress jacket are Air Force Academy cadets.

[Panache]

I would have asked to authorize the black or some other color fleece with insignia with the BDU. A la the sage fleece for the ABU.

I'm actually surprised that the black fleece wasn't authorized with the BDUs.  Apparently (I'm guessing), when worn with the BDUs, it wouldn't be "distinctive" enough.  Because those white-on-ultramarine blue tapes that say "CIVIL AIR PATROL" can be pretty deceiving to Airman Timmy at low light and at a distance.  Heck, he may salute you!

[Storm Chaser]

I would have asked to authorize the black or some other color fleece with insignia with the BDU. A la the sage fleece for the ABU.

I'm actually surprised that the black fleece wasn't authorized with the BDUs.  Apparently (I'm guessing), when worn with the BDUs, it wouldn't be "distinctive" enough.  Because those white-on-ultramarine blue tapes that say "CIVIL AIR PATROL" can be pretty deceiving to Airman Timmy at low light and at a distance.  Heck, he may salute you!

I would almost be willing to bet that CAP didn't ask the Air Force about it in the first place.

[Eclipse]

I would have asked to authorize the black or some other color fleece with insignia with the BDU. A la the sage fleece for the ABU.

I'm actually surprised that the black fleece wasn't authorized with the BDUs.  Apparently (I'm guessing), when worn with the BDUs, it wouldn't be "distinctive" enough.  Because those white-on-ultramarine blue tapes that say "CIVIL AIR PATROL" can be pretty deceiving to Airman Timmy at low light and at a distance.  Heck, he may salute you!

I would almost be willing to bet that CAP didn't ask the Air Force about it in the first place.

I'll take a piece of that, too.

Other then the inexplicable request to remove the cutouts from the epaulets of the M-65, it appears that as soon
as ABUs were off the table, the tac was to leave the BDU as-is, and not request any additional parts or changes.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

"Not asking the Air Force" seems to be the road most travelled by our leadership.

I wonder if any of our National CC's, NUC, BoG or whatever alphabet soup have ever raised any of the following with the Air Force:

- Returning the blue uniform to pre-1990 status (blue CAP rank marks, metal grade, blue nameplate, CAP cutouts).  After all, I think the organisation has "done its penance."

- Asking if the BDU can be made "CAP-distinctive;" very, very, very few of the Armed Forces even use it anymore.

- Asking for a headgear for the G/W kit.

It has seemed to me that, after the decade-apart uniform implosions of Harwell/CSU, the organisation as a whole has taken a "let sleeping dogs lie" approach to broaching possible uniform changes with the Air Force.

What's the worst that could happen?  The AF could say "no"...or they could say "yes."  Like my mother used to say, you never know if you don't ask.

[lordmonar]

I wonder if anyone in CAP LAND has asked the NUC to ask the USAF?

On the black fleece for the BDU, I agree.....they probably were focused on the ABU and when the rug got pulled from under them...they did not have time to look at anything new.

I don't think anyone should be getting up in their grill about it.

[Eclipse]

....they probably were focused on the ABU and when the rug got pulled from under them...they did not have time to look at anything new.

Focused in the wrong place, then no ability to change or add anything in 6+ months?



It's a uniform manual, not the Magna Carta.

[lordmonar]

Sure.

It is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

They may have also just forgot.

The ABU's did not get canned 6 moths prior to issue.    IIRC two months ago we saw a draft with the ABU's in it.  I would not be suprised that they just said...."we don't need to worry about a fleece for the BDU...because the BDU's are going away and no one has been asking for them.  We got one for the ABUs and we got one for the BBDUs....that's enough".

When the ABUs got pulled.....either the just forgot about it...because at this point they were focusing on correcting mistakes and looking at the feed back from the field (did anyone mention it during the draft phase?).   Or.....they knew they had skipped it....but they were too close to the dead line to get it into this edition of the manual.

To Mike......now would be a good time to do a white paper suggesting adopting a fleece for the BDUs and sending it up the chain of command.   

[Eclipse]

Sure.

It is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

They may have also just forgot.

The ABU's did not get canned 6 moths prior to issue.    IIRC two months ago we saw a draft with the ABU's in it.  I would not be suprised that they just said...."we don't need to worry about a fleece for the BDU...because the BDU's are going away and no one has been asking for them.  We got one for the ABUs and we got one for the BBDUs....that's enough".

When the ABUs got pulled.....either the just forgot about it...because at this point they were focusing on correcting mistakes and looking at the feed back from the field (did anyone mention it during the draft phase?).   Or.....they knew they had skipped it....but they were too close to the dead line to get it into this edition of the manual.

2 Months?  There hasn't been a draft that included ABUs this calendar year and the command council was informed in March that
CAP would not pursue ABUs.  What was finally released as the new 39-1 had been languishing in in-boxes for most of 2014.

For the record, the USAF tacitly denied CAP the wear of ABUs going back to 2012, this is canonized in the NB minutes as per CAP-USAF.

[lordmonar]

Sure.

It is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

They may have also just forgot.

The ABU's did not get canned 6 moths prior to issue.    IIRC two months ago we saw a draft with the ABU's in it.  I would not be suprised that they just said...."we don't need to worry about a fleece for the BDU...because the BDU's are going away and no one has been asking for them.  We got one for the ABUs and we got one for the BBDUs....that's enough".

When the ABUs got pulled.....either the just forgot about it...because at this point they were focusing on correcting mistakes and looking at the feed back from the field (did anyone mention it during the draft phase?).   Or.....they knew they had skipped it....but they were too close to the dead line to get it into this edition of the manual.

2 Months?  There hasn't been a draft that included ABUs this calendar year and the command council was informed in March that
CAP would not pursue ABUs.  What was finally released as the new 39-1 had been languishing in in-boxes for most of 2014.

For the record, the USAF tacitly denied CAP the wear of ABUs going back to 2012, this is canonized in the NB minutes as per CAP-USAF.

Your are right....I saw a "Draft Draft" that came out in Jan or Feb that included the ABUs.

And you are right.....the March Draft sat around for a month collecting feed back, then it went to the committee then it was sent to the USAF where it sat for quite awhile.

My point is.....that the NUC....a volunteer committee.....did not have a lot of time to make changes after the draft hit the streets.