New 39-1

[jeders]

And why use people?  All the examples should be on mannequins to avoid personalities and odd facial expressions, etc.

The Air Force used real people, but cropped their heads for the uniform photographs on its most recent revision of AFI 36-2903. It think the pictures look just fine.

And since they cropped the heads off, they essentially have super-realistic mannequins. The problem that sometimes can arise is the personality that is introduced by the face which then detracts from the true subject, the uniform.

[NIN]

A simple dress makers mannequin with a cravat covering the neck would look a million times better. It never moves, it stays exactly the right angle, you can always have the same size uniform, etcetera.

If you really want to be saucy, simple line diagrams would be best since all the photographs are really showing you are the approximate layout of the uniform. It is truly unnecessary to have actual people models. These are not official photographs or anything like that.

By the way, as for putting out a request for units to provide photos, if you think there are crazy variations in the photos in the current manual, think about what you would get if every Tom, Dick and Harry send photos taken with their new Nokia phone. Cuz you know, the commercial says that the camera is the best one out there.

[Eclipse]

The preparation for the photos is daunting,

No, it's not, even a little, and the idea that it is is why this is taking so long.
I could go down into >MY< closet and shoot 90% of the photos, and with two phone calls nail the rest.

One mannequin, a few lights and one of the decent aerial cameras and its done in an afternoon.

Next problem.

regardless of whether we use models or mannequins.  The photographer has to have ready access to all the possible uniform combinations and most of the badges and insignia, and far more importantly, the detailed knowledge of a uniform wonk to get every detail perfectly.  We can be sure that each of dozens of detailed photographs will be minutely examined by experts with magnifying glasses looking for every possible error.

No, they don't need "all the badges".  Why?  They all go in the same spot.  One of each type is all you need.

If the photography team gets every single detail right, we will just accept it as normal job performance.  But get just one detail wrong out of 30 or 40 possible minute details in a typical photo, CAPTalk will go wild . . .

Yep, so get it right.

But CT isn't going to "go wild" - we'll point it out, you shoot a single photo, recompile the .pdf.  Move on.
Anything that appears in the draft is expected to have issues, once it's been posted for comment, if
the comments are ignore, different deal, but either way, No cost, no big whoop.
[/quote]

Why not shoot this at Vanguard?

They have everything, literally, and I'm sure they have mannequins.

[Eclipse]

If you really want to be saucy, simple line diagrams would be best since all the photographs are really showing you are the approximate layout of the uniform. It is truly unnecessary to have actual people models. These are not official photographs or anything like that.

Truly, 100% unnecessary, and just making things harder.

As I recall, an esteemed no longer active member of CT did a beautiful set of uniform one-sheets a few years back.  I have them somewhere.

No need for the actual insignia, people, lights, changes take minutes, and zero cost.

That's what should be used.

[NIN]

Honestly, the Army's uniform manual, AR 670 - 1 has been line diagrams since before I can remember. even chowderheaded soldiers such as myself could figure out what to do.

The whole purpose of a uniform manual is to remove ambiguity. Reduce the opportunity to be non uniform. Make everybody look as much like they belong to the same organization as possible. ( yes, yes, CAP distinctive... I get it ).

Simple, straightforward, to the point, easy to manipulate, one dude with a copy of Adobe Illustrator in an hour could be knocking out dozens of diagrams.

[a2capt]

NIH .. "Not Invented Here". it's a killer, and it seems to be policy at Maxwell.

[Ned]

The preparation for the photos is daunting,

No, it's not, even a little, and the idea that it is is why this is taking so long.
I could go down into >MY< closet and shoot 90% of the photos, and with two phone calls nail the rest.

One mannequin, a few lights and one of the decent aerial cameras and its done in an afternoon.

Next problem.

You're right, of course.  Where do those guys get off trying to convince us that commercial photography is some sort of skill or craft?  Perhaps they do not have your background or skill in taking photographs for publication.   

Why not shoot this at Vanguard?

They have everything, literally, and I'm sure they have mannequins.

Undoubtedly true, I'll pass the suggestion along to the team.  Hope they live close by.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I had not thought of mannequins, but I believe it is a good idea.

With past editions of the elusive manuscript (has anyone thought of looking in the cave where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found; maybe there is a 39-1 lurking in some ancient clay pot?) I knew people in CAP who claimed to know this, that or the other person who modelled the uniforms.

You're right, of course.  Where do those guys get off trying to convince us that commercial photography is some sort of skill or craft?  Perhaps they do not have your background or skill in taking photographs for publication.   

Colonel, my brother-in-law is a semi-pro photographer and I am sure he would be willing to contract out his services...for a price, of course.

[Eclipse]

You're right, of course.  Where do those guys get off trying to convince us that commercial photography is some sort of skill or craft?  Perhaps they do not have your background or skill in taking photographs for publication.

Perhaps they don't.

However you're not actually saying CAP is going to >pay< someone for this, are you?

Please tell me you're not saying that.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The preparation for the photos is daunting,

No, it's not, even a little, and the idea that it is is why this is taking so long.
I could go down into >MY< closet and shoot 90% of the photos, and with two phone calls nail the rest.

One mannequin, a few lights and one of the decent aerial cameras and its done in an afternoon.

Next problem.

You're right, of course.  Where do those guys get off trying to convince us that commercial photography is some sort of skill or craft?  Perhaps they do not have your background or skill in taking photographs for publication.   

Why not shoot this at Vanguard?

They have everything, literally, and I'm sure they have mannequins.

Undoubtedly true, I'll pass the suggestion along to the team.  Hope they live close by.

All the more reason for line diagrams. If we sent a photo studio all of our items ready to go, a mannequin could be wearing it all and done in a day.

[Ned]

However you're not actually saying CAP is going to >pay< someone for this, are you?

Please tell me you're not saying that.

Wait, were you going to charge us for this?

I could go down into >MY< closet and shoot 90% of the photos, and with two phone calls nail the rest.

One mannequin, a few lights and one of the decent aerial cameras and its done in an afternoon.

I figured at most, I was only going to have to pay maybe 10% of the cost.   

Seriously, as many have pointed out in so many threads here, CAP volunteers include professionals with many skills.  It is my understanding that one or more highly skilled member-photographers are donating their talents for this important project. 

As a retired Army guy, I also appreciated the clarity of line drawings in the AR.  Maybe we should have a combination of both.

[Eclipse]

Wait, were you going to charge us for this?

I could go down into >MY< closet and shoot 90% of the photos, and with two phone calls nail the rest.

One mannequin, a few lights and one of the decent aerial cameras and its done in an afternoon.

I figured at most, I was only going to have to pay maybe 10% of the cost.   

Just a 108 for the phone calls (comm costs).

[SARDOC]

Just a 108 for the phone calls (comm costs).

You still pay for long distance?

[lordmonar]

We collectively owe the photography team a drink (or two) for just undertaking  the "most thankless job in CAP."

Absolutely.

But, why not just release the draft publication with empty boxes of place of the photos and then release the photos as a separate item a week or two later? Gives the membership time to digest the new uniform issues and find typos in the manual while giving the photo team a little more time to get everything perfect. Just a thought.

Because we want the photos to be QC'ed by the general membership just like we want every I, T, Comma, semi colon, et al.

Why send out the draft with out pictures.....then published the manual just have 300 people go "the photo in fig 4.2 is wrong".

You all waited this long....a few more weeks is not going to kill anyone.

[Eclipse]

Um, yes, doesn't everyone?

Just $2.50 a minute plus $3.00 connection cost and $5.00 a month to keep my card active.

The guy at 7-11 said those were the best rates anywhere!

[JeffDG]

Because we want the photos to be QC'ed by the general membership just like we want every I, T, Comma, semi colon, et al.

Why?

NHQ has basically stopped posting draft regulations for comment for the past year.  Notice the section on the website is even gone.

They got all huffy with me when I asked to see a draft of the new 173-1 as a Wing/DC, sometime before the day that a major change went into effect...got even huffier when I pointed out they'd completely screwed up the way they'd written it, and what they thought it meant isn't what they actually put in there.

[Shuman 14]

Why not shoot this at Vanguard?

They have everything, literally, and I'm sure they have mannequins.

Everything? Do they have khaki uniforms? 

[Eclipse]

The major cadet regs have all been posted for comment, and many of those comments
incorporated into the subsequent revisions.

Perhaps a much less "NIH" mindset?  Or maybe those department heads are more experienced and more comfortable
with delegation and collaboration?

In my experience, the less baked an idea, the more you anticipate pushback, or the less confident someone
is in their work, the more inclined they are to hold it close to the vest.   I have to admit finding myself
in that midset sometimes, too.

In the words of Mike Rowe "Done" is better then "perfect", especially when things are still in draft form and
fixing them costs zero dollars.

[lordmonar]

Because we want the photos to be QC'ed by the general membership just like we want every I, T, Comma, semi colon, et al.

Why?

NHQ has basically stopped posting draft regulations for comment for the past year.  Notice the section on the website is even gone.

They got all huffy with me when I asked to see a draft of the new 173-1 as a Wing/DC, sometime before the day that a major change went into effect...got even huffier when I pointed out they'd completely screwed up the way they'd written it, and what they thought it meant isn't what they actually put in there.

So you are mad when the just ignore you and print the regs as they see fit....and you are mad when they post the regs for comments.....sound like it is a no-win scenario for NHQ.

The question is why are the holding on to the draft, waiting for the pictures....the answers is that they only want to have to do the comment and correction cycle once.

[Storm Chaser]

Why not shoot this at Vanguard?

They have everything, literally, and I'm sure they have mannequins.

Everything? Do they have khaki uniforms? 

Oh, boy... Here we go again.