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New 39-1

Started by alexalvarez, October 24, 2013, 01:06:18 AM

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a2capt


NIN

39-1 is intended to be out by the end of the year.

The photography/graphics are being worked right now, especially after the bru-haha in the last one over pics that were really, really not well done (ie. discrepancies, etc)

I suspect that we'll see a draft copy circulated  in the next 30 days or so, but you have to realize that its probably going to be 99% locked in at that point, so it may not be a "Draft for comment."

(I think we all realize that circulating a 39-1 draft for public comment would result in a volume of feedback, both accurate and relevant and specious and irrelevant, that would overwhelm any human being attempting to sift thru it. Uniforms are going to be one of those "you can't satisfy everybody" kinds of things, and if we want a new uniform manual any time in the next 12-18 months, we are probably not going to get a lot of comment on it)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:25:38 PM
39-1 is intended to be out by the end of the year.

The photography/graphics are being worked right now, especially after the bru-haha in the last one over pics that were really, really not well done (ie. discrepancies, etc)

I suspect that we'll see a draft copy circulated  in the next 30 days or so, but you have to realize that its probably going to be 99% locked in at that point, so it may not be a "Draft for comment."

(I think we all realize that circulating a 39-1 draft for public comment would result in a volume of feedback, both accurate and relevant and specious and irrelevant, that would overwhelm any human being attempting to sift thru it. Uniforms are going to be one of those "you can't satisfy everybody" kinds of things, and if we want a new uniform manual any time in the next 12-18 months, we are probably not going to get a lot of comment on it)

OTOH, we could sort and pick apart said discrepancies/issues/errors unlike the last version.


NIN

Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 24, 2013, 04:30:22 PM
OTOH, we could sort and pick apart said discrepancies/issues/errors unlike the last version.

You don't think that's been done already, ad infinitum? 

At a certain point, since uniforms are the third-rail of CAP, you're not going to get "discrepancies" and you're going to get "I don't like this"

Which are different.

And separating the wheat from the chaff is going to be a real pain. 

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
You don't think that's been done already, ad infinitum? 

I really don't. Mistakes keep popping up on TESTS. That's 50 questions they have to get right. I just administered an Earhart Leadership Test, Dated March 2012, that we received last month from NHQ, and one of the questions had 2/4 possible answers as the same answer. I know that they've floated copies out to a number of members during the process, but lets face it, most probably weren't REALLY reading down to every detail. If you crowdsource it, even just for typos and logic errors, it would be done in less than a week.


Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
At a certain point, since uniforms are the third-rail of CAP, you're not going to get "discrepancies" and you're going to get "I don't like this"

Easy fix. We're not looking for suggestions, we're looking for proofreading on typos/logic errors.

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
Which are different.
Agreed.

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
And separating the wheat from the chaff is going to be a real pain.

We had this one covered in the old Leadership for 2000 and Beyond books. Shouldn't take more than  a few seconds to see when someone is pointing out a typo/logic issue and when they submit an essay on the Merits and Value of the Pink Tutu with White Pistol Belts.

Luis R. Ramos

Yep, there are mostly black cows with white spots.

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

The solution for both issues is imply insuring that regulations, manuals, and other documents are "alive".

Once they are published, there should be a simple process for pointing out and correcting errata.  And by "simple" I literally
mean a group of trusted agents who are authorized to correct and republish the document(s) when legitimate typos
or other similar errors are found.

In this day and age, anything found in a document that is either an error or legitimately "wrong" should not live more then a week or two
after it's been pointed out.

Same-day corrections aren't unreasonable, either.  Businesses do it all the time.  Check with a Pharma company on their disclaimers.  Talk
about real-time updating.

"That Others May Zoom"

UH60guy

I'm sure that would be opening the flood gates of opinionated members, but you're right- there needs to be a way to correct those problems in an official capacity, including times outside the cycle of normal publications.

Heck, the Army has a form for submitting recommended changes to manuals (http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pdf/A2028.PDF), I bet CAP NHQ could implement something similar. Maybe the effort of having to fill out and submit a form through the chain of command might cut down on some of the noise of submissions and get to the real issues.
Maj Ken Ward
VAWG Internal AEO

NIN

Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 24, 2013, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
You don't think that's been done already, ad infinitum? 

I really don't.
<snippage>
I know that they've floated copies out to a number of members during the process, but lets face it, most probably weren't REALLY reading down to every detail. If you crowdsource it, even just for typos and logic errors, it would be done in less than a week.

That was July & August. Took more then a week.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
That was July & August. Took more then a week.

No telling tales out of school.

"That Others May Zoom"

Al Sayre

Quote from: UH60guy on October 24, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
I'm sure that would be opening the flood gates of opinionated members, but you're right- there needs to be a way to correct those problems in an official capacity, including times outside the cycle of normal publications.

Heck, the Army has a form for submitting recommended changes to manuals (http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pdf/A2028.PDF), I bet CAP NHQ could implement something similar. Maybe the effort of having to fill out and submit a form through the chain of command might cut down on some of the noise of submissions and get to the real issues.

Somehow I get a mental picture of 30 reams of paper arriving at NHQ that all say "The period after the 4th word in CAPM 39-1 para 1.2.3.4.a.1 should be a comma"; with each one appropriately stamped and signed by the Squadron admin officer, the SQ/CC, GP/CC WG/CC & Region/CC  >:D
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

Eclipse

#31
^ And IG complaints when someone suggests a semi-colon and is ignored.

"That Others May Zoom"

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Al Sayre on October 24, 2013, 09:10:57 PM
Somehow I get a mental picture of 30 reams of paper arriving at NHQ that all say "The period after the 4th word in CAPM 39-1 para 1.2.3.4.a.1 should be a comma"; with each one appropriately stamped and signed by the Squadron admin officer, the SQ/CC, GP/CC WG/CC & Region/CC  >:D

I would truly hope paper would not be required. A simple eServices form (I typed it w/out laughing) that gets passed up the CoC. You know, the exact opposite of ask the National CC.

NIN

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: Phil Hirons, Jr. on October 24, 2013, 09:25:20 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on October 24, 2013, 09:10:57 PM
Somehow I get a mental picture of 30 reams of paper arriving at NHQ that all say "The period after the 4th word in CAPM 39-1 para 1.2.3.4.a.1 should be a comma"; with each one appropriately stamped and signed by the Squadron admin officer, the SQ/CC, GP/CC WG/CC & Region/CC  >:D

I would truly hope paper would not be required. A simple eServices form (I typed it w/out laughing) that gets passed up the CoC. You know, the exact opposite of ask the National CC.

For typos or factual errors you don't even need chain approval, just point them out.
Put up a wiki with comments and explanations.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

I tend to agree with Bob: Our regulations and other pubs need to be more dynamic, less monolithic.

Waiting 7 years for a legitimately updated uniform manual is silly.. And handing someone the uniform manual and 5 pages of ICLs (not "page insert changes") is just... silly too!

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

PHall

Quote from: NIN on October 24, 2013, 09:49:28 PM
I tend to agree with Bob: Our regulations and other pubs need to be more dynamic, less monolithic.

Waiting 7 years for a legitimately updated uniform manual is silly.. And handing someone the uniform manual and 5 pages of ICLs (not "page insert changes") is just... silly too!

The Air Force went 7 years before updating their uniform manual.

We're just doing what Big Blue taught us to do! >:D

Panache


Phil Hirons, Jr.

Got to love a Top Secret! reference.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

RiverAux

The number of people that are going to read any brand new regulation with a sharp enough eye to catch legitimate mistakes is probably going to be fewer than 100. 

They should probably plan on doing a secondary revision within 6 months to fix the errors that will be in it and then they should be able to leave it alone for a while.