Uniforms and Rank/Grade

[PHall]

...and once some half-asleep Airman who's too busy daydreaming salutes one of us as we walk by in our tights and tutus, the AF brass will start kvetching about how CAP is trolling for salutes and uniform changes are incoming.

Won't be the Air Force Brass just like it's never been the Air Force Brass complaining about this in the past.

It's been our own members....

[Panache]

The AF apparently did care about the CSU. Look what happened.

Because the CSU was too close to RealMilitary™ for their liking.  Blue pants and metal grade!  Why, somebody may mistake a CAP officer for Air Force!  And the last thing anybody wants is for somebody to mistake the US Air Force Auxiliary for the US Air Force.

(FTR, I thought the CSU was a stupid idea too, but I found the AF's reaction to it telling.)

[Eclipse]

If you, or anyone else can cite any "Air Force reaction" to the CSU, please do so.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The operative word here is uniform. Remember that.

The AF has specifications (spec) for their uniforms.

I thought we were talking about something that'll be strictly CAP-only.  And last I checked, the specs on the G/W's are "a white aviator-style shirt and gray pants" with no further details.  I suspect the AF couldn't care less if our uniform was polka-dotted tights and pink tutus as somebody with half a brain couldn't mistake us for RealMilitary™.

The AF apparently did care about the CSU. Look what happened.

Aviator shirt - the original spec was for the Van Heusen Aviator shirt, available from the Bookstore. When they ceased operations, the spec changed. Click the link and look at the chart. Wearing anything other than the Aviator version leads to more non-uniformity.

If we're going to adopt a new uniform combination, we need to do it right, or not do it at all.

I have three white aviator shirts. Two are cut as AF Blues shirts...

[Shuman 14]

How about US Navy Chief Petty Officer's blouse minus the officer's stripe and epaulet?

But it's in NAVY blue not AIR FORCE blue.

My point is that someone had to special order the Air Force blue cloth in a double breasted naval/FD style when that coat was authorized.

So the argument that ordering an old style USAF cut uniform coat in Khaki cloth is "too" expensive to consider... holds no water.

The coat Grumpy is talking about is the khaki coat. How did we move to the CSU coat?

I don't know the source of the CSU coats, because I wasn't allowed to wear it. I seem to recall folks complaining that it was more expensive than the AF blue coat.

As for my comments on the currency of the khaki coat, I just looked in the current USN uni reg, and it's not in there.

OK, If you say so, I recall seeing ADM Mullen in it on TV earlier this year. 

We moved to the CSU, if that's the picture of the coat I posted, because someone said that Khaki was "too expensive". I pointed out that the CSU, a Corporate CAP uniform only, was pricey too and it was adopted regardless of the price.

[SarDragon]

OK, If you say so, I recall seeing ADM Mullen in it on TV earlier this year. 

We moved to the CSU, if that's the picture of the coat I posted, because someone said that Khaki was "too expensive". I pointed out that the CSU, a Corporate CAP uniform only, was pricey too and it was adopted regardless of the price.

The CSU was essentially the work of one person, a National Commander who eventually got fired. It was apparently a commonly available garment, and wasn't a special order item. The fact that it was worn primarily in large sizes likely contributed to the higher cost, and that will be a factor for any new corporate dress uniform.

I have two Qs for you - how long have you been in CAP? and How much experience do you have wearing a khaki uniform. Just curious, to give a better perspective.

[SunDog]

Maybe status quo is the best option? USAF groupies can continue in the nearly-Big-Blue regalia; we painfully, inappopriatly casual plebians can cling to the polo; the corporate, but military style, uniforms continue wear by the BMI challenged and former non-USAF officers? The current corporate stuff is kinda ugly, but probably serviceable enough? Buy a blazer pocket-thingy and the rep tie, to avoid the corporate ugliness?

Someone posted that the blue BDU performance sucked for GT, so the woodland camo has a legimate place, as does the Nomex, for obvious reasons.

No one is too, too 'appy, but there is something for everyone? Doesn't keep the chunky/hairy set out of AF uniforms, true, but that's not a flaw in the uniform itself. . .I don't see us putting people on a scale, either. CAP HQ can mandate, but there are practical limits in a volunteer, dues-paying club.

You can go a LONG time with just a blazer combo and a polo. I'm mortal-lock certain it can be done for more than a decade. Add a bag for aircrew, if desired?

[Private Investigator]

You can go a LONG time with just a blazer combo and a polo. I'm mortal-lock certain it can be done for more than a decade. Add a bag for aircrew, if desired?

Good point. I have been in a Senior Squadron that was 100% polo shirt. Another Senior Squadron was 50% polo and 50% USAF blues because Veterans want to wear their active duty bling bling from WWII, Korea or Viet Nam and you are not allow to do that with an aviator shirt. 

[Shuman 14]

OK, If you say so, I recall seeing ADM Mullen in it on TV earlier this year. 

We moved to the CSU, if that's the picture of the coat I posted, because someone said that Khaki was "too expensive". I pointed out that the CSU, a Corporate CAP uniform only, was pricey too and it was adopted regardless of the price.

The CSU was essentially the work of one person, a National Commander who eventually got fired. It was apparently a commonly available garment, and wasn't a special order item. The fact that it was worn primarily in large sizes likely contributed to the higher cost, and that will be a factor for any new corporate dress uniform.

I have two Qs for you - how long have you been in CAP? and How much experience do you have wearing a khaki uniform. Just curious, to give a better perspective.

Never been in CAP.

I wore Khaki shirts when I was in the Marine Corps many moons ago.

[ColonelJack]

The AF apparently did care about the CSU. Look what happened.

Because the CSU was too close to RealMilitary™ for their liking.  Blue pants and metal grade!  Why, somebody may mistake a CAP officer for Air Force!  And the last thing anybody wants is for somebody to mistake the US Air Force Auxiliary for the US Air Force.

(FTR, I thought the CSU was a stupid idea too, but I found the AF's reaction to it telling.)

The CSU was a non-issue for the Air Force.  As I recall from reading the NB meeting minutes of the time frame, CAP-USAF had no comment on the uniform because it was a Corporate uniform, and thus of no interest to the Air Force.  (I'm paraphrasing and could be recalling that incorrectly.)  The only things the AF asked be changed on the CSU was the replacement of "U.S." cutouts with "CAP" and not wearing our grade insignia on the flight cap.  Unless somebody was hiding some very important information, they had no problem with metal grade - though they may have gotten a mild bellyache over our use of their blue rank slides.  When the metal grade was replaced with the gray epaulets, it should've been enough to mollify the AF, if indeed they were the ones upset with it.

What killed the CSU wasn't the Air Force or their reaction to it ... it was the NEC.  One member (at least) did NOT like the uniform and went to the measures necessary to eliminate it.  Whether his dislike of the uniform had to do with his perception of AF reaction or his perception of HWSRN, who initiated it, is unclear, but he didn't like it and began the process to kill it.

Jack

[JeffDG]

We need to go with red uniforms:

[jeders]

We need to go with red uniforms:

Who let RM back in here?

[Майор Хаткевич]

We need to go with red uniforms:

Who let RM back in here?

+1

[JeffDG]

We need to go with red uniforms:

Who let RM back in here?

[FW]

Another thread worn out... about the only thing left is to complain about boonies....and abu's; lol!

[AlphaSigOU]

Another thread worn out... about the only thing left is to complain about boonies....and abu's; lol!

Tick tock... can't stop the lock clock!

[jeders]

Another thread worn out... about the only thing left is to complain about boonies....and abu's; lol!

Can we make them red ABUs, we'll call them RABU. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

When we add all the blue patches, we can call them BABUs...

Flyer

[ZigZag911]

If you, or anyone else can cite any "Air Force reaction" to the CSU, please do so.

CAP-USAF CC had some comments, as I recall, at National Board meeting 2 or 3 years back.

[Eclipse]

If he did, they'd be in minutes and someone would have popped them up.

Concurring with something CAP brings to the table on its own isn't the same as "having an issue" with something.

There's been lots of conjecture and assumptions, but no one has drawn a line and said " 'X' didn't like it..."