wear of the flight suit

[Chaplaindon]

"We don't wear Class B's in CAP. "

Hmmm ...

I think Shakespeare said it best in "Romeo and Juliet" when he wrote, "what's in a name? ... a rose by any other name smells as sweet."

Besides, since when is uniform wearing a plural actvity ... maybe when two people are needed to prance about in the costume of a pantomime horse ... otherwise "WE" don't wear uniforms (I for one am certain I'd remember two --or more-- officers of cadets wearing the same uniform regardless of "class") ... each individual "I" does ... not the collective "we."

Like the song says Mr. Mike ... "you say tomato and I say ta-mah-tow ... let's call the whole thing off ..."

I for one vote for a class-less and caste-less CAP ... uniforms too (besides Roman togas look better anyway).

Putting on my A-Classless Jammies for bed.

[AlphaSigOU]

"We don't wear Class B's in CAP. "

Hmmm ...

I think Shakespeare said it best in "Romeo and Juliet" when he wrote, "what's in a name? ... a rose by any other name smells as sweet."

Besides, since when is uniform wearing a plural actvity ... maybe when two people are needed to prance about in the costume of a pantomime horse ... otherwise "WE" don't wear uniforms (I for one am certain I'd remember two --or more-- officers of cadets wearing the same uniform regardless of "class") ... each individual "I" does ... not the collective "we."

Like the song says Mr. Mike ... "you say tomato and I say ta-mah-tow ... let's call the whole thing off ..."

I for one vote for a class-less and caste-less CAP ... uniforms too (besides Roman togas look better anyway).

Putting on my A-Classless Jammies for bed.

Well said, Padre! 

[shorning]

..... .....

[SarDragon]

Regarding Class A's, B's, etc, these have not been valid designations for CAP uniform combinations since at least 1968. Continued usage of these terms just confuses the new members.

[shorning]

Regarding Class A's, B's, etc, these have not been valid designations for CAP uniform combinations since at least 1968. Continued usage of these terms just confuses the new members.

Dave, that's crazy talk!  In fact, I'm wearing my Class-Q's to the meeting tomorrow.

[SarDragon]

Regarding Class A's, B's, etc, these have not been valid designations for CAP uniform combinations since at least 1968. Continued usage of these terms just confuses the new members.

Dave, that's crazy talk!  In fact, I'm wearing my Class-Q's to the meeting tomorrow.

[on your bandwidth, too!]

[shorning]

Regarding Class A's, B's, etc, these have not been valid designations for CAP uniform combinations since at least 1968. Continued usage of these terms just confuses the new members.

Dave, that's crazy talk!  In fact, I'm wearing my Class-Q's to the meeting tomorrow.

[on your bandwidth, too!]

[Hawk200]

OK purists, start casting stones

We don't wear Class B's in CAP. 

Can you tell me what Class B's are , mike?

[ELTHunter]

"We don't wear Class B's in CAP. "

I thought you said the manual wasn't the final authority.  If you can wear a badge on your flight suit that isn't provided for in 39-1, I guess I can call the blue shirt and pants Class B's

[Hawk200]

.... I guess I can call the blue shirt and pants Class B's

Well, there goes my chance at proving a point......

[MIKE]

Can you tell me what Class B's are , mike?

1–6. Classification of service and utility or field uniforms
a. The male class A service uniform consists of the Army green (AG) coat and trousers, a short- or long-sleeved AG
shade 415 shirt with a black four-in-hand tie, and other authorized accessories.
b. The male class B service uniform is the same as class A, except the service coat is not worn. The black four-inhand
tie is required with the long-sleeved AG shade 415 shirt when the long-sleeved shirt is worn without the class A
coat, as an outer garment; the tie is optional with the short-sleeved shirt.
c. The female class A service uniform consists of the Army green coat and skirt or slacks, a short- or long-sleeved
AG shade 415 shirt with a black neck tab, and other authorized accessories. The Army green maternity uniform (slacks or skirt) is also classified as a class A service uniform when the tunic is worn. When the tunic is worn, females will
wear the neck tab with both the short- and long-sleeved maternity shirts.
d. The female class B service uniform is the same as the class A, except that neither the service coat nor the
maternity tunic are worn. The black neck tab is required only when wearing the long-sleeved AG shade 415 shirt or the
long-sleeved maternity shirt without the class A coat or tunic; the neck tab is optional with the short-sleeved version of
both shirts.
e. Class C uniforms are the utility, field, hospital duty, food service, and other organizational uniforms.
f. See the table of prescribed dress in appendix B.

[ELTHunter]

Sorry Hawk.

[lordmonar]

"We don't wear Class B's in CAP. "

I thought you said the manual wasn't the final authority.  If you can wear a badge on your flight suit that isn't provided for in 39-1, I guess I can call the blue shirt and pants Class B's

You quoted the wrong guy.  Chaplaindon was quoting Mike.  Chaplaindon was saying "class B" was the same as "short sleeve blues with out tie".  Mike was the one saying we don't wear class B's.

[arajca]

1–6. Classification of service and utility or field uniforms
a. The male class A service uniform consists of the Army green (AG) coat and trousers, a short- or long-sleeved AG
shade 415 shirt with a black four-in-hand tie, and other authorized accessories.
b. The male class B service uniform is the same as class A, except the service coat is not worn. The black four-inhand
tie is required with the long-sleeved AG shade 415 shirt when the long-sleeved shirt is worn without the class A
coat, as an outer garment; the tie is optional with the short-sleeved shirt.
c. The female class A service uniform consists of the Army green coat and skirt or slacks, a short- or long-sleeved
AG shade 415 shirt with a black neck tab, and other authorized accessories. The Army green maternity uniform (slacks or skirt) is also classified as a class A service uniform when the tunic is worn. When the tunic is worn, females will
wear the neck tab with both the short- and long-sleeved maternity shirts.
d. The female class B service uniform is the same as the class A, except that neither the service coat nor the
maternity tunic are worn. The black neck tab is required only when wearing the long-sleeved AG shade 415 shirt or the
long-sleeved maternity shirt without the class A coat or tunic; the neck tab is optional with the short-sleeved version of
both shirts.
e. Class C uniforms are the utility, field, hospital duty, food service, and other organizational uniforms.
f. See the table of prescribed dress in appendix B.

You have proven the point - CAP does not wear class b uniforms. By the definition you provided, the class b uniform is green, not blue. Since CAP wears blue uniforms, CAP cannot wear class b uniforms.

[DNall]

Holy crap! Class A/B was once the short hand for how to state the UOD in an oplan. That got cut, big deal. Class A means service coat, TPU, Blazer combo; Class B means blues, white aviator (SS no tie in warm months, LS w/ tie in cold months). Anything else is a special duty circumstance, like a recruiter wearing a tie w/ SS for instance. The AF did away with the A/B codes cause they can just say SS/LS/BDU/utility. It's a little more complicated for us. People using A/B will die out over time, don't worry about it.

Now then, 39-1 is authoritative to the extent it clearly states the information, and as we all know it is badly written & leaves far too much open to interpretation, which in that case the best policy is to look at how the AF does it & copy that. The use of sigular or plural in that particular line is not authoritative, especially when gramatical & spelling errors are so rampant, and especially when they have a tendancy for not thinking things thru & then expecting us to fix it out in the field. The AF way would be that the GT badge is NOT authorized, but chaplain should be worn, and you could get away with mini jump wings if you really want to.

[lordmonar]

If in doubt....ask your commander.  At least then you have someone to CYA if someone jumps down your throat.

On the other hand.....within reason...what does it really matter?  I mean a guy wears both of his authorised badge on his aircrew name tape or wears his chaplains cross on it.....the world is not going to end, no one in the USAF will care (because a DNall said it is following USAF practice) and it serves a legitamate purpose.

[SarDragon]

People using A/B will die out over time, don't worry about it.

Not as long as they keep teaching it to new members. It's going to take a long time for the 14 yo cadets using it today to die off.

[shorning]

This thread makes me want to gouge out my eyes.

[Chaplaindon]

Br. Steve,

Please keep your fingers away from your eyes ... and/or mine ... BUT, just to "muddy the waters" a bit, please allow me to ask the thread three questions about CAPM 39-1 and the beloved "green bag."

1.   IAW CAPM 39-1, can CAP members wear any other outerwear over the USAF flight suit besides the sage green USAF flight jacket?

2.   Since the current issue USAF flight jacket(s) --there are several permutations based upon weight and warmth-- is/are made of Nomex aramid cloth and thus costs somewhere around $150-200 new (depending upon source) ---according to "The Gospel According to St. Uniform" (CAPM 39-1) can a member legally wear the identical appearing MILSPEC nylon version of the jacket (which is MUCH less costly)?

3.   According to the explicit provisions of the same "Gospel" may a CAP member --legally-- wear anything on her/his head --besides the USAF flight cap or, maybe, a baseball cap (if approved by WG or RG CC) while wearing the green bag?

Please answer both because I am curious and as it will likely be a test of how we read the CAPM.

Shalom ...

[MIKE]

1.   IAW CAPM 39-1, can CAP members wear any other outerwear over the USAF flight suit besides the sage green USAF flight jacket?

MA-1, CWU-45/P or CWU-36/P.

2.   Since the current issue USAF flight jacket(s) --there are several permutations based upon weight and warmth-- is/are made of Nomex aramid cloth and thus costs somewhere around $150-200 new (depending upon source) ---according to "The Gospel According to St. Uniform" (CAPM 39-1) can a member legally wear the identical appearing MILSPEC nylon version of the jacket (which is MUCH less costly)?

The MA-1 pictured in CAPM 39-1 is nylon.  Nylon knockoff versions of the CWU-45/P are also out there.  I don't think MA-1's are issue anymore either, yet they have been authorized with the USAF style bag.

3.   According to the explicit provisions of the same "Gospel" may a CAP member --legally-- wear anything on her/his head --besides the USAF flight cap or, maybe, a baseball cap (if approved by WG or RG CC) while wearing the green bag?

Per Table 2-4. Flight cap or CAP baseball cap.