Longest TIG

[GroundHawg]

Another interesting CAPTalk thread hijacked by the same two or three people to argue the same points over and over again...

Every time...

[PHall]

Another interesting CAPTalk thread hijacked by the same two or three people to argue the same points over and over again...

Every time...

AKA   The Usual Suspects.

[Private Investigator]

This is not true, TIG does not reset to zero if your out for more than 2 years (it resets to zero for the E-services modules).  We just successfully promoted a major to LtCol that had a 10 year break, with only 2.5 as major since his return. 

Why would you submit someone for promotion who was gone for ten years and didn't even qualify for the grade when they left?

Situation is everything.  After three months returning he became squadron CC.  He accomplished a lot since his return and got current on CAP policies and programs.  Understanding he had 3 years TIG when he left, and was already Level IV (granted the requirements have changed slightly).  This gentleman is the rare self starter.  It was well deserved.

So he had 2.5 or 3 years when he left?  The example you gave to fit the narrative is now changing.  He was gone for 10 with only 2.5 as a major, and got promoted to
Lt Col.  Now he's got more then 3 years, was appointed as unit CC and got current on policies.  hardly the same thing.

No the narrative isn't changing.  We requested promotion after he had been back with 2.5 addition years TIG since his return.  He was out for 10 years but had been a member for 10 years before he left.  He was already Level IV complete, with 3 previous years TIG.  And that's what I was saying in my OP, you can add former TIG (even with a longer than 2 year absence) to current TIG to promote someone.  Whether they're deserving is individual case basis, and changes with situation and the person.

The way I call it; is if he is back and participating for 2 1/2 years, he needs another 1 1/2 years for Lt Col. If he is all that it should not be a problem. 

I know people that made LtCol in 6 years because of position jump promotions (Squadron CC, then Group CC, very possible when you consider you can be a Major Group CC as Level I complete, and It only takes 3-4 years to get to Level IV completion).  As a higher level commander, you can certainly deny any promotion for pretty much any reason.  This guy was deserving, Group Commander knew it, and Wing knew it.  He didn't even know he was recommended until Region called to set up the Prom Board interview.  He certainly didn't ask for it.   So by all means do what you need to do in Group I, but we need to take care of valuable people.

A Group Commander can be promoted to Major with AFIADL 13 or CAP OBC completed.

I would have to task you on what is a valuable person. as I consider all our members valuable assets. What makes one better than another? Now you are getting into 'good ole boy' territory. A good example, and not to judge used car salesmen, but one gentlemen 50% of the Wing thinks he walks on water and the other 50% wants to know why the other half is blind. JMHO, YMMV   

[Private Investigator]

Captain 1997-2000, 2004-2007, 2009-infinity.

So, 5 years TIG.

I know my math skills are somewhere at the Sesame Street level but I would count:
1997-2000 - 3 years
2004-2007 - 3 years
2009-present - 5 years

11 years total, though not consecutive.

If you are out for more than 2 years, your TIG resets to zero.

This is not true, TIG does not reset to zero if your out for more than 2 years (it resets to zero for the E-services modules).  We just successfully promoted a major to LtCol that had a 10 year break, with only 2.5 as major since his return.  These promotions simply can't be submitted in e-services, but must be submitted on a CAPF 2.  Proof of total TIG must be provided on a duty performance promotion.  This promotion was approved by 4 Levels above squadron (group, wing, region and national).  CAPR 35-5 does not state that TIG must be contiguous.  This is not the first duty performance promotion I have processed with split TIG either, just the highest we have ever processed.  The individual has been a LtCol for about 4 months now.

CAPR 35-5 does say that former grade reinstatement is not automatic after a 2 year break.  Perhaps that's what your referring to.

When I was Group Commander I would have disapproved it. I disapproved several. Somebody who has been out of CAP for ten years is way out of touch with what is going on today. JMHO   

I disagree. He's had 2 1/2 years to get back "in touch" with CAP; plenty of time for someone who is very active to the point of being a squadron commander. That's why you have promotion boards and several layers (depending on grade) of approval authority. Good commanders should not be making blanket decisions without evaluating all the information and particular circumstances surrounding the decision to be made, including consideration for promotions.

Correctamundo. One case I had was a Major, 8 years non particpation. Now he is back and wants Lt Col. The reason he was absent, the previous Squadron Commanders told him, he could not wear USAF blues (50+ pounds overweight). Gomer is the new CC and says, Junior is a valuable guy and will be the next CC too. Junior a Lt Col? Its your call, you know what mine was.   

[lordmonar]

Private Investigator.....you are pointing out a good example why we use situational leadership.

Each situation is different.  And we use leaders to make judgment calls.

The fact that we have a great debate out this one subject shows that we have a lot of different points of view. 

They are all good as far as they go.   

The bottom line is......promotions are up to the chain of command.   If you or i are not in the chain of command it makes no difference what our opinion is of the situation.

As they say on line.....YMMV. 

[MSG Mac]

Not quite as blatant as appointing a 21 year old Spaatz recipient as a Group/CC so he could be a Major.

[JC004]

...
No one said the problem was "Congress".
...

George Washington did.      You're saying the general is wrong?   

[DoubleSecret]

...
No one said the problem was "Congress".
...

George Washington did.      You're saying the general is wrong?   

In a CAP context, General Washington's stars would only get him Lt Col.  There'd probably be some delay on that, no DD-214.

* ambles away *

[PHall]

Not quite as blatant as appointing a 21 year old Spaatz recipient as a Group/CC so he could be a Major.

Really?  I just gotta see the cite on that one!

[catrulz]

Captain 1997-2000, 2004-2007, 2009-infinity.

So, 5 years TIG.

I know my math skills are somewhere at the Sesame Street level but I would count:
1997-2000 - 3 years
2004-2007 - 3 years
2009-present - 5 years

11 years total, though not consecutive.

If you are out for more than 2 years, your TIG resets to zero.

This is not true, TIG does not reset to zero if your out for more than 2 years (it resets to zero for the E-services modules).  We just successfully promoted a major to LtCol that had a 10 year break, with only 2.5 as major since his return.  These promotions simply can't be submitted in e-services, but must be submitted on a CAPF 2.  Proof of total TIG must be provided on a duty performance promotion.  This promotion was approved by 4 Levels above squadron (group, wing, region and national).  CAPR 35-5 does not state that TIG must be contiguous.  This is not the first duty performance promotion I have processed with split TIG either, just the highest we have ever processed.  The individual has been a LtCol for about 4 months now.

CAPR 35-5 does say that former grade reinstatement is not automatic after a 2 year break.  Perhaps that's what your referring to.

When I was Group Commander I would have disapproved it. I disapproved several. Somebody who has been out of CAP for ten years is way out of touch with what is going on today. JMHO   

I disagree. He's had 2 1/2 years to get back "in touch" with CAP; plenty of time for someone who is very active to the point of being a squadron commander. That's why you have promotion boards and several layers (depending on grade) of approval authority. Good commanders should not be making blanket decisions without evaluating all the information and particular circumstances surrounding the decision to be made, including consideration for promotions.

Correctamundo. One case I had was a Major, 8 years non particpation. Now he is back and wants Lt Col. The reason he was absent, the previous Squadron Commanders told him, he could not wear USAF blues (50+ pounds overweight). Gomer is the new CC and says, Junior is a valuable guy and will be the next CC too. Junior a Lt Col? Its your call, you know what mine was. 

This story doesn't sound plausible, and if it's true, then I wonder why the individual came back.  CAP's fixation on uniforms goes a little overboard at times.  I hope the information you acted on was not just hearsay.  Even the rumor mill in CAP is below par.  Bottom line is you have to do what you believe is right.  Just be sure you are right, and not acting on personal feelings.  Unfortunately, too many award and promotion boards act on exactly that.  Yet every board member will swear it's someone else integrity that lacking.  Only you know if you've done the right thing, I can't judge you.