Proving Conference Attendance

[ProdigalJim]

This feels rather flimsy to me.

I realized that I haven't formally recorded the two conferences I attended this year (a key Level III requirement!), so I wanted to ensure that I got the appropriate credit. There are no certificates of attendance that I'm aware of, and just because I *paid* doesn't mean I actually *went*.

The Knowledge Base offers the following guidance:

>>For conference attendance and other requirements, the unit professional development officer enters the data and the unit commander certifies completion of the requirements for Levels II-V on the CAPF 45 Senior Member Master Record Aug 09 . Credit for attendance at a conference might be verified by a registration form or other proof such as a conference schedule which shows the member made a presentation, received an award in person (picture) or otherwise showed proof of attendance.

Upon return from a conference, CAP members should notify the professional development officer or personnel officer so attendance can be credited on the CAP Form 45. <<

Wow, really? A picture of me and my buddy at the banquet is how we document Professional Development requirements? And since the CAP Form 45 is now electronic (but only sort of, because eServices doesn't track everything), how does this parse?

Real-world advice would be welcome.

[Capt_Redfox30]

As Director of Professional Development I have run into the same issues, we as a Wing for the past number of years have created certificates that are given to all attendees including staff, these are handed out with someones registration folder.  We also have a confirmed attendees list that the Wing Personnel Officer created and keeps copies of on dropbox. 

I have made suggestions to National to track conference attendance, all other attendances, PD courses, NCSA, Encampments are tracked with sending national a form or list of names and they input it into E-Services, there is no reason why this can't be done with conferences. 

As Project Officer for 2015 Conference I will personally, or have someone else, enter all the names of the attendees into the new PD application so there is no confusion if someone attended or not.   

[Luis R. Ramos]

Yes, this is something lacking.

As a squadron commander and Personnel Officer I had to deal with the issue. Had to use awards given on those dates, you could use also photos of members receiving the award. Also receipts of the hotel...

[MSG Mac]

There is a function within E-Services where you can enter Senior  Conferences.

E-Services>Personnel > Membership and Organization System > Professional Development Award Entry.

There is a drop down to select the level, just enter the information and dates.

[a2capt]

Though mostly CAWG, but everything I've gone to over the years, they've put out a PA for attendance listings..

[PHall]

California Wing publishes a PA with the list of all CAP members who attended the Wing Conference every year.
They're accessable on the wing website.  Makes it very easy to verify someone's attendance.

[lordmonar]

Yes this has been lacking for some time.....

As well as two other very important things with the  whole "attend two wing conferences" thing... 

1) What exactly is a wing conference....as opposed to say a wing staff meeting or a PD weekend.

2) What exactly is the definition of Attend?   Is it show up and check-in.  Is it attend at least on event for each day of the conference.  Is it buy a ticket for the dinner?

I got asked this at a SUI a few years ago...."how do you track confernce attendance" and my answer was "I don't".  When it comes to filling out the F24 I simply ask the applicant what years they attended what conference and fill in the blanks.  If I had reason to belive that they were going to lie about it.....I would not be putting them in for the Level III in the first place.

[Capt_Redfox30]

Yes this has been lacking for some time.....

As well as two other very important things with the  whole "attend two wing conferences" thing... 

1) What exactly is a wing conference....as opposed to say a wing staff meeting or a PD weekend.

2) What exactly is the definition of Attend?   Is it show up and check-in.  Is it attend at least on event for each day of the conference.  Is it buy a ticket for the dinner?

I got asked this at a SUI a few years ago...."how do you track confernce attendance" and my answer was "I don't".  When it comes to filling out the F24 I simply ask the applicant what years they attended what conference and fill in the blanks.  If I had reason to belive that they were going to lie about it.....I would not be putting them in for the Level III in the first place.

When I became project officer for this upcoming conference, my Wing Commander said for it to be classified as a conference "all three missions had to be represented", he didn't say how or where it stays that in the regulations, but I am going to have "themed rooms" of all three missions and related classes. 

[ProdigalJim]

There is a function within E-Services where you can enter Senior  Conferences.

E-Services>Personnel > Membership and Organization System > Professional Development Award Entry.

There is a drop down to select the level, just enter the information and dates.

Thanks! I hadn't seen that. Now I guess I can't do that for myself, so I'll have to get my PDO to do it for me.

[Capt_Redfox30]

There is a function within E-Services where you can enter Senior  Conferences.

E-Services>Personnel > Membership and Organization System > Professional Development Award Entry.

There is a drop down to select the level, just enter the information and dates.

Thanks! I hadn't seen that. Now I guess I can't do that for myself, so I'll have to get my PDO to do it for me.

Only someone who has the duty positions of Commander, PDO, Personnel Officer, Administrative Officer and a couple more I think have access to it.  So that gets to be the problem, you tell your PDO that you attended, but you have no prove that you went..., that's why we are going to handle the input at Wing and enter the names ourselves.  Because when I review Level 3's I have had people that attended conferences out of wing and have no prove, so I can't verify and approve them.  The Wing Commander wants actual documentation to show attendance. 

[Private Investigator]

Though mostly CAWG, but everything I've gone to over the years, they've put out a PA for attendance listings..

That is a good ideal. Some Wings do a PL (Participation Letter) to document attendance.   

[JeffDG]

Our wing issues certificates.

But based on the core value of "Integrity", if a member were to tell me "I was at the Wing Conference", unless I had some reason to doubt him (in which case there would be other issues), I would treat such a statement as evidence.

Now, Capt Bagodonuts tells me "I was at the Wing Conference in 1985", I might be more skeptical, but I'd believe his memory of the one last month.

Honestly, once in a while, you have to believe that people don't look for ways to lie to you and take their word for something, and trust that they have some honour.  If you don't have even that level of trust in your members by the time they're putting in for Level III, there are some issues well beyond whether they were at a Wing Conference.

[lordmonar]

Our wing issues certificates.

But based on the core value of "Integrity", if a member were to tell me "I was at the Wing Conference", unless I had some reason to doubt him (in which case there would be other issues), I would treat such a statement as evidence.

Now, Capt Bagodonuts tells me "I was at the Wing Conference in 1985", I might be more skeptical, but I'd believe his memory of the one last month.

Honestly, once in a while, you have to believe that people don't look for ways to lie to you and take their word for something, and trust that they have some honour.  If you don't have even that level of trust in your members by the time they're putting in for Level III, there are some issues well beyond whether they were at a Wing Conference.

+1

[Eclipse]

Our wing issues certificates.

But based on the core value of "Integrity", if a member were to tell me "I was at the Wing Conference", unless I had some reason to doubt him (in which case there would be other issues), I would treat such a statement as evidence.

Now, Capt Bagodonuts tells me "I was at the Wing Conference in 1985", I might be more skeptical, but I'd believe his memory of the one last month.

Honestly, once in a while, you have to believe that people don't look for ways to lie to you and take their word for something, and trust that they have some honour.  If you don't have even that level of trust in your members by the time they're putting in for Level III, there are some issues well beyond whether they were at a Wing Conference.

+1

+1 for me as well, and double for all the cadets who were dragged to conferences over the years with the promise that
it would count towards their senior years, only now to be told by NHQ "not so much".

[lordmonar]

Our wing issues certificates.

But based on the core value of "Integrity", if a member were to tell me "I was at the Wing Conference", unless I had some reason to doubt him (in which case there would be other issues), I would treat such a statement as evidence.

Now, Capt Bagodonuts tells me "I was at the Wing Conference in 1985", I might be more skeptical, but I'd believe his memory of the one last month.

Honestly, once in a while, you have to believe that people don't look for ways to lie to you and take their word for something, and trust that they have some honour.  If you don't have even that level of trust in your members by the time they're putting in for Level III, there are some issues well beyond whether they were at a Wing Conference.

+1

+1 for me as well, and double for all the cadets who were dragged to conferences over the years with the promise that
it would count towards their senior years, only now to be told by NHQ "not so much".

I don't think NHQ has been saying that....was there a change to the regulation I missed?   

[Eclipse]

I don't think NHQ has been saying that....was there a change to the regulation I missed?

NHQ has said >exactly< that, within the last year, affecting users of this forum.

[lordmonar]

I don't think NHQ has been saying that....was there a change to the regulation I missed?

NHQ has said >exactly< that, within the last year, affecting users of this forum.

Not saying it did not happen...but can you point me in the direction of who and in what circumstances....because I just checked 50-17 and knowledge base....and they both say that they should be allowed.....so were there extenuating circumstances or something.

[Eclipse]

I don't think NHQ has been saying that....was there a change to the regulation I missed?

NHQ has said >exactly< that, within the last year, affecting users of this forum.

Not saying it did not happen...but can you point me in the direction of who and in what circumstances....because I just checked 50-17 and knowledge base....and they both say that they should be allowed.....so were there extenuating circumstances or something.

Where do they indicate that?

The issue was two-fold.  The wing was not tracking attendance, and then once participation was
fully (and excruciatingly) substantiated, NHQ said "The PD program is a senior thing, therefore cadet attendance doesn't count." exactly opposite of what my wing had done for years, and apparently not taking into account
the conference credit already conferred on other cadets at the same conference. 

As it happened that year, cadet attendance was somewhat higher then "normal" for a wing conference because lodging was offered for free as was the carrot of senior PD credit.  A fair number of cadets put it through with no issue, however the timing of the submission meant that some younger cadets who dark-sided later who not credited.

I won't indicate "who" as I don't have access to my email history to say for sure, but it was an NHQ "SME".

[lordmonar]

d. Attend two wing, region, or national conferences. These conferences afford CAP members a broad view of the CAP corporation's organization and expose them to the issues confronting CAP. Attendance at a region/wing aerospace education conference can also be credited for one conference attendance. Conferences attended prior to entry into Level III count toward fulfillment of this requirement.

And the KB answer says the same exact thing. 

For the Level III senior member professional development requirements, when it asks for two conferences attended, do conferences attended before the member was in Level III count?

For senior members, conferences attended prior to entry in Level III count if they meet the criteria in Paragraph 5-1d of CAPR 50-17, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program and the member has proof of attendance. Wing, region, or national conferences attended prior to entry into Level III (as a senior member) count toward fulfillment of this requirement. The National Conference on Aviation and Space Education and a region/wing aerospace education conference are also credited as conferences.

See Level III requirements in Paragraph 5-1 (below) of  CAPR 50-17 CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program 19 August 2013

5-1. Management. CAP designed professional development at this level for senior members serving as squadron, group, or wing commanders and for staff officers. Criteria for completion of this level include:
a. Complete Level II training.
b. One year of experience in a command or staff position.
c. Attain the senior rating in any specialty track.
d. Attend two wing, region, or national conferences. These conferences afford CAP members a broad view of the CAP corporation's organization and expose them to the issues confronting CAP. Attendance at a region/wing aerospace education conference can also be credited for one conference attendance. Conferences attended prior to entry into Level III count toward fulfillment of this requirement.
e. Complete the Corporate Learning Course (CLC).

I don't see anywhere in writing where it says "cadet time don't count"....I just sent a KB question to confirm or deny.

[Eclipse]

You're making the same points I did...