Special Appointments for Advanced Grade Question.

[LSThiker]

That works both ways.  Commanders who intend to play the delay game need to let people know this before they let them sign up.  It's a breach of integrity not to.  I've seen units do the "you're eligible for this and this" and then when they're on the books ... "discretion" becomes the watchword.  They could have used their discretion to be honest with the military member/retiree/veteran and said "I don't support advanced promotions even if you're eligible for them, so I'm going to use my discretion.  Still want to join?"

There's an integrity issue there.  There's also a moral obligation not to abuse discretion. 

It's a disservice to CAP to pad unit numbers and then shaft the person and potentially lose someone who feels they're being treated unfairly.  If people walk away with a poor experience, they're certainly not going to tell the CAP story we want them to tell. 

Sure, the apologists can scream "service before self," but integrity comes first.

Or does it?

Okay?  Not exactly sure how you got from my statement into an integrity issue since I did not say anything to the contrary.  Either way, that does not negate the fact that promotions are still at the discretion of the commander.

[Eclipse]

Any CC who is recruiting people based on giving them grade before they have earned it in CAP should be excused from the room.

This issue is one of the reasons we have so many empty shirts, members who treat the mission like a menu, and
lifer Captains.

[lordmonar]

Any CC who is recruiting people based on giving them grade before they have earned it in CAP should be excused from the room.

This issue is one of the reasons we have so many empty shirts, members who treat the mission like a menu, and
lifer Captains.

It is this attitude why we get people who quit in a huff!   "What have you done for me lately?"  "I Don't know...let's see I've been with the program for 5-6 years now....I've jumped through a bunch of hoops...done my time in the trenches....now I would like to just take a step back and enjoy myself.   I'll be there for you when you need me...I'll keep my ES proficiencies up....but I'm not going to spend any more of my leave time for RSC or NSC.  I'm not going to pull my hair out over another SUI."

But you call them names and think that what they do give us is not enough. 

As for "giving them grad before the earned it"  the regulations disagree with your sentiment.   

[Eclipse]

Any CC who is recruiting people based on giving them grade before they have earned it in CAP should be excused from the room.

This issue is one of the reasons we have so many empty shirts, members who treat the mission like a menu, and
lifer Captains.

It is this attitude why we get people who quit in a huff!   "What have you done for me lately?"  "I Don't know...let's see I've been with the program for 5-6 years now....I've jumped through a bunch of hoops...done my time in the trenches....now I would like to just take a step back and enjoy myself.   I'll be there for you when you need me...I'll keep my ES proficiencies up....but I'm not going to spend any more of my leave time for RSC or NSC.  I'm not going to pull my hair out over another SUI."

Comparing apples and walnuts doesn't make your point.  I also called no one names, unless the term fits.

There's a grand canyon of difference between someone coming in off the street and expecting an advanced promotion and someone
with 5-6 years serving the program.

In >my< example, they are untested and undeserving, in yours, of course they should be promoted, to whatever level they
have seen fit to work towards.  At that point they should absolutely be a Captain, probably reaching for major,
but if, as you say, at that point they decide to "step back", or choose not to complete non-waivable requirements,
then of course they would >not< be promoted.

In your world, how far is history supposed to reach back?  "I was a TAC at an encampment 8 years ago so give me my oaks?"

Yes, much of CAP, like LIFE is "what have you done for me lately and what do you pan to do next week, because
the work doesn't stop just because you decided to "step back".  It's just more for someone else to do, and then that person gets
the chance for promotions and decorations.

As for "giving them grad before the earned it"  the regulations disagree with your sentiment.

They literally do not.

"Eligible" absolutely  does not equal "deserves" or "earned".

Last I checked I was "eligible" to be the President of the United States that doesn't mean I've "earned" it, or deserve it.

I've known plenty of people "eligible" for things in CAP that neither one of us would even consider promoting, and plenty more
"ineligible" who should be wearing heavy grade.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Any CC who is recruiting people based on giving them grade before they have earned it in CAP should be excused from the room.

This issue is one of the reasons we have so many empty shirts, members who treat the mission like a menu, and
lifer Captains.

Some of us "lifer Captains," and you know what I mean in my own circumstances, know that in the view of those above us, we will never merit promotion to field grade because of personality type, what constitutes "exceptional," etc.

That is why I have chosen the German Luftwaffe Stabshauptmann as my little sig-line picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabshauptmann

[brackins23]

Hey thanks for the replies. I definitely did not intend to start an argument here. I am going to reengage this week.

[Panache]

Hey thanks for the replies. I definitely did not intend to start an argument here. I am going to reengage this week.

This is CAPTalk.  Arguments are inevitable.

You could post "the sky is blue" and it would turn into a 100-post debate before finally settling on uniforms somehow.

[Eclipse]

Hey thanks for the replies. I definitely did not intend to start an argument here. I am going to reengage this week.

This is CAPTalk.  Arguments are inevitable.

You could post "the sky is blue" and it would turn into a 100-post debate before finally settling on uniforms somehow.

Actually...

[Luis R. Ramos]

This is CAPTalk.  Arguments are inevitable.

You could post "the sky is blue" and it would turn into a 100-post debate before finally settling on uniforms somehow.

It is not! The correct color is Cyan!!!

[Luis R. Ramos]

...and the BBDUs are too deep to be sky-color...

There! Moved it off-topic and posted the uniform off-shoot as well!

[Panache]

This is CAPTalk.  Arguments are inevitable.

You could post "the sky is blue" and it would turn into a 100-post debate before finally settling on uniforms somehow.

It is not! The correct color is Cyan!!!

Fool!  Everybody knows it's more of a shade of azure.

[AlphaSigOU]

This is CAPTalk.  Arguments are inevitable.

You could post "the sky is blue" and it would turn into a 100-post debate before finally settling on uniforms somehow.

It is not! The correct color is Cyan!!!

Fool!  Everybody knows it's more of a shade of azure.

No, no, NO!!! It's the color of infinity - sky blue pink with a purple hue!  (Those of you who remember the 'panic button' will know this.)

[JeffDG]

Any CC who is recruiting people based on giving them grade before they have earned it in CAP should be excused from the room.

This issue is one of the reasons we have so many empty shirts, members who treat the mission like a menu, and
lifer Captains.

Like folks who think "Mission Pilot" is a duty position, and everything else is "not my problem"?

[arajca]

For those folks who are happy working at the squadron level and work through the PD program, Capt is a good goal and permanent grade. Although some here will cry "irrelevant", the public in general sees lieutenants as leaders in training or the guy/gal handling things until a real leader shows up. Again, to the general public, a captain is a real leader. So I have not problem with career captains in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

For those folks who are happy working at the squadron level and work through the PD program, Capt is a good goal and permanent grade. Although some here will cry "irrelevant", the public in general sees lieutenants as leaders in training or the guy/gal handling things until a real leader shows up. Again, to the general public, a captain is a real leader. So I have not problem with career captains in CAP.

I don't either...for those who are willing to be "career captains."  Others have had the way up the ladder blocked.

Again, this shows, IN MY OPINION, the need for a warrant officer track specifically FOR those who choose to/can only specialise in a speciality track, who do not have the ability and/or desire to "sell themselves" to those at Group, Wing, etc. level to merit promotion to field grade.

I have known those who choose to be "career second lieutenants" - mostly pilots in senior squadrons who do not care about anything but flying.  Such a track would be good for them too.  It certainly works for the Army.

[Panache]

It certainly works for the Army.

Such heresy will not be tolerated in CAP. Repent, heretic, or you will burn.

[AirAux]

IIRC, They took the blue from the skies and  a pretty girl's eyes and a touch of Old Glory's hue, and gave it to the men who proudly wear the U.S. Air Force blue...

And you can wear it too!  The U.S. ... Air Force ... Blue.


Yay, another uniform thread..

[Storm Chaser]

IMHO, PD Levels should be the way CAP members progress in the senior program, awards the way they are recognized for their contributions, and grades the way they show their level of responsibility (past or present). Promotions should be used to identify potential for increased responsibilities, in addition to successful past duty assignments, accomplishments and contributions commensurable with the grade held.

[Майор Хаткевич]

IMHO, PD Levels should be the way CAP members progress in the senior program, awards the way they are recognized for their contributions, and grades the way they show their level of responsibility (past or present). Promotions should be used to identify potential for increased responsibilities, in addition to successful past duty assignments, accomplishments and contributions commensurable with the grade held.

It is...technically.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

IMHO, PD Levels should be the way CAP members progress in the senior program, awards the way they are recognized for their contributions, and grades the way they show their level of responsibility (past or present). Promotions should be used to identify potential for increased responsibilities, in addition to successful past duty assignments, accomplishments and contributions commensurable with the grade held.

It is...technically.

On paper, but too often not in practice.  If someone at any level does not like you, you can stay stuck in a grade forever or at least until the person who does not like you is no longer in a position of influence.