CAP CAC Card Poll

[ARandomCadet]

Should the USAF approve for CAP to have CAC cards? Should we have cards that look like what I learned to do in tech lab? Cast your opinion in the poll, or leave your answer, and suggestions, in the comments.

[Eclipse]

No.

[SarDragon]

Absolutely no need whatsoever.

Your listed reasons are nowhere close to the real possible reasons for having or not having CAC cards for CAP.

[ARandomCadet]

Absolutely no need whatsoever.

Your listed reasons are nowhere close to the real possible reasons for having or not having CAC cards for CAP.

My reasons are just a simple reason. There are too many reasons people come up with for me to list them all.

[SarDragon]

Absolutely no need whatsoever.

Your listed reasons are nowhere close to the real possible reasons for having or not having CAC cards for CAP.

My reasons are just a simple reason. There are too many reasons people come up with for me to list them all.

Too simple, and wrong.

This one - Yes, it is for the better interest of everyone - is way too broad, and nonspecific. Why would it be in CAP's better interest?

This one - No, it makes us look too much like the Air Force - makes no sense.What does being like the AF have to do with having or not having a CAC card.

I think you need to come up with some better justifications for each case before trying to take a poll.

[a2capt]

Should the ability to create a poll be limited to forum users with accounts not less than 60 days old as well as having a specified number of posts?

[SAREXinNY]

a2capt,

I've been a member here for a while.  Just because I keep my mouth shut and my ears open shouldn't prevent me from participating.  Responding to posts regularly doesn't make you right.  I'm sure the OP will be crashing and burning on this post just fine without admin intervention.

[SarDragon]

You appear to be an adult, with some reasonably well developed critical thinking skills. The OP is neither, hence the half-baked poll. I'm trying to help the latter part along.

As for limitations on polls, I'm mixed. The rules have gone back and forth over time, and we still haven't reached a happy medium.

[Eclipse]

I would be in favor of rules that limited the ability to post an article until you've been a member for "x" amount of time and
read "x" number of articles.

That would curtail the drive-bys and repetitive "new guy, old question" stuff which makes up most of the arguments on this board.

[ARandomCadet]

Absolutely no need whatsoever.

Your listed reasons are nowhere close to the real possible reasons for having or not having CAC cards for CAP.

My reasons are just a simple reason. There are too many reasons people come up with for me to list them all.

Too simple, and wrong.

This one - Yes, it is for the better interest of everyone - is way too broad, and nonspecific. Why would it be in CAP's better interest?

This one - No, it makes us look too much like the Air Force - makes no sense.What does being like the AF have to do with having or not having a CAC card.

I think you need to come up with some better justifications for each case before trying to take a poll.

In the event we are in uniform, such as stops such as dinner before a meeting, and we are asked to show an ID and we show a CAC, wouldn't it make an impression we are in the Air Force?

[Майор Хаткевич]

No? Maybe plan your schedule better so that you aren't seen around town 24/7 in uniform? I know AD folks who wear the uniform less than you want to...

[SAREXinNY]

Mr. ILikePlanes, I strongly suggest you take a page out of my book.  Mouth...shut, ears (or in this case eyes)...open.  You learn a LOT more that way.

[SarDragon]

In the event we are in uniform, such as stops such as dinner before a meeting, and we are asked to show an ID and we show a CAC, wouldn't it make an impression we are in the Air Force?

No. Most civilians don't even know what a CAC card is, anyway. They just look at it as a form of ID, and move on. They know little about its special features, over and above having your name and picture.

And why would you be needing to show an ID at a restaurant? I was rarely asked for any kind of identification as a cadet, and the only time I use my ID as a senior member is to sign in at missions. You're clutching at straws here, and coming up short.

Bottom line, you still haven't come up with any good reasons, pro or con, for having CAC cards.

[ARandomCadet]

Mr. ILikePlanes, I strongly suggest you take a page out of my book.  Mouth...shut, ears (or in this case eyes)...open.  You learn a LOT more that way.

That's not the way I do it at school. I don't listen to the teacher most of the time, and figure it out myself. Then I find errors that the teacher made, and get it correct, and get good grades. Mostly in math and history, I sleep in history and get good grades, while in math I draw throughout the class and get good grades. The other teachers will kill you, except for in science. In science you are given instructions on what to do and then you do it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

...

[ColonelJack]

Mr. ILikePlanes, I strongly suggest you take a page out of my book.  Mouth...shut, ears (or in this case eyes)...open.  You learn a LOT more that way.

That's not the way I do it at school. I don't listen to the teacher most of the time, and figure it out myself. Then I find errors that the teacher made, and get it correct, and get good grades. Mostly in math and history, I sleep in history and get good grades, while in math I draw throughout the class and get good grades. The other teachers will kill you, except for in science. In science you are given instructions on what to do and then you do it.

Wow.  Just ... wow.

Mr. Rainey, as a history teacher, I can assure you of two things:  one, you would not be sleeping in my class; and two, if you were to try and do so, your grades would most certainly show that you did.

Oy.

Jack

[RiverAux]

It is a reasonable question for a poll.  Post your vote and if you want to argue for or against it, thats fine, but there is no need to complain about its mere existence. 

And what is the difference between allowing a new member to start a thread or make a post and starting a poll?  Get over it.

[FlyTiger77]

I am not sure which is more frustrating: (A) That Cadet Rainey/Chuck Norris/ILikePlanes continues to post nonsense about the functioning of life in a world that bears no resemblance to any world with which I am familiar, or (B) That I keep reading and responding to it.

I see no value in CAP having a CAC. The only times I regularly use either of the two CACs that I possess are to gain access to military installations and to log onto NIPRNet computer systems. CAP has a process for entering military installations and CAP has no need to log onto NIPRNet computer systems.

The other use for a CAC (or any military-issued ID) is to identify the Geneva Convention category if the holder is captured. That, too, is of no value to CAP.

[Critical AOA]

CAC stands for Common Access Card, so when you write or say "CAC Card" you are being redundant as you are saying "Common Access Card Card" which is ridiculous.   Grow up, get an education, gain some real life experience and try to change CAP or even the world then.

[lordmonar]

CAC stands for Common Access Card, so when you write or say "CAC Card" you are being redundant as you are saying "Common Access Card Card" which is ridiculous.   Grow up, get an education, gain some real life experience and try to change CAP or even the world then.

That is true.....but it is what those of use with a CAC card call it so you are kind of barking up the wrong tree. 

[a2capt]

Just like "Automated Teller Machine Machine". As plain as Scotch Tape and Jello, it's well set and the mold is no longer necessary.

[SARDOC]

We do not need a CAC card.  However, I would like to see the Civil Air Patrol move to an identification card in lieu of a membership card that is more compliant with the requirements set forth in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12.

[abdsp51]

Cadet Rainey,

I highly encourage you to stop posting for awhile and learn something.  Your postings are not giving you any credibility at all.  Take the advice given to you by members here. 

To the original topic, there is currently no need for us to have a CAC card in any aspect.  Now if you have NIPR net then you can jump through hoops for a VOLAC card but that's about it. 

[lordmonar]

We do not need a CAC card.  However, I would like to see the Civil Air Patrol move to an identification card in lieu of a membership card that is more compliant with the requirements set forth in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12.

Other then not defining "is strongly resistant to identity fraud, tampering, counterfeiting, and terrorist exploitation" how is our CAP ID cards not meeting with Directive 12?

[NCRblues]

Mr. ILikePlanes, I strongly suggest you take a page out of my book.  Mouth...shut, ears (or in this case eyes)...open.  You learn a LOT more that way.

That's not the way I do it at school. I don't listen to the teacher most of the time, and figure it out myself. Then I find errors that the teacher made, and get it correct, and get good grades. Mostly in math and history, I sleep in history and get good grades, while in math I draw throughout the class and get good grades. The other teachers will kill you, except for in science. In science you are given instructions on what to do and then you do it.

This is a troll. A very good one at that. Just stop responding to him.

[Devil Doc]

Where I Work we have a CAC, there is no Geneva convention, rank etc. Prolly donsnt help that I work for the Govment.

[Critical AOA]

I was not familiar with Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12 so I looked it up.  From what I read it pertains to Federal employees and contractors and we are neither.  So why should our membership card need to conform? 

[Devil Doc]

I was not familiar with Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12 so I looked it up.  From what I read it pertains to Federal employees and contractors and we are neither.  So why should our membership card need to conform?

HSPD 12? I know all about it Anywho, what if we are working with FEMA and AUX ON, then would HSPD 12 Apply

[Eclipse]

CAP is very clear that we are never employees or contractors.

[Shuman 14]

CAC IDs or PIV Cards as civilian agencies call them, are the future.

I've worked as a contractor for a couple of Federal Government agencies and everyone is going to a CAC/PIV type card for ease of identification instead of 40 plus different IDs. As someone pointed out already, there are several Homeland Security Presidential Directives that address this.

Heck even private citizens can get one by applying for a Transportation Workers Identification Credential (TWIC Card) and forking over the $100.

USCGAux's version of a CAC is in the works as we speak, so why must the CAP be different?

BTW, just because you have a CAC/PIV/TWIC card doesn't mean you have instant access to Government systems, it just means IF your Service or Agency wants you to have access to system, it's easier for them to turn you on. Conversely, just as easy to shut you off too. 

[lordmonar]

If and when the Federal Government thinks that we need to conform to Directive 12......they will tell us.

Having said that.   The Gate guards told us a couple of weeks ago that Sept 1 our CAP ID will not be good enough to get onto base.

NOW DON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD........

CAP is already in coordination through the Region Liaison and CAP-USAF to work out this issue.   I have nothing else to contribute to the discussion as we have been told "we are working it....and Y'all don't be running down to Pass and ID to get DBID cards."

[Shuman 14]

We do not need a CAC card.  However, I would like to see the Civil Air Patrol move to an identification card in lieu of a membership card that is more compliant with the requirements set forth in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12.

Other then not defining "is strongly resistant to identity fraud, tampering, counterfeiting, and terrorist exploitation" how is our CAP ID cards not meeting with Directive 12?

Because a gate guard or other Federal security officer can't insert it into a CAC/PIV/TWIC reader and instantaneously tell if its real or fake or valid or expired.

That's one of the reasons that they did away with the vehicle stickers, so you have to present a scan-able ID.

[lordmonar]

We do not need a CAC card.  However, I would like to see the Civil Air Patrol move to an identification card in lieu of a membership card that is more compliant with the requirements set forth in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12.

Other then not defining "is strongly resistant to identity fraud, tampering, counterfeiting, and terrorist exploitation" how is our CAP ID cards not meeting with Directive 12?

Because a gate guard or other Federal security officer can't insert it into a CAC/PIV/TWIC reader and instantaneously tell if its real or fake or valid or expired.

That's one of the reasons that they did away with the vehicle stickers, so you have to present a scan-able ID.

Actually they did away with the stickers because the DOD got a really really bad bunch of them 6-7 years ago....and then some bright boy in Robbins AFB said "why do we issue these stupid things anyway....we are doing 100% checks".

The Scanable ID thing only came about a couple of years ago.

Currently the USAF is going to DBIDs (or something like that) for all it's base contractors who don't rate CAC cards.  CAP is currently working with CAP-USAF to work a solution.

And yes I would assume that that solution would meet Directive 12 standards.

[dwb]

Also, the car decals made you a target. It's like having a bumper sticker that says "Ask me about the sensitive information I have access to!"

I used to have one of those novelty Area 51 access stickers on my car. The gate guards usually chuckled at that one. That was pre-9/11; I doubt they would laugh now.

[RiverAux]

USCGAux's version of a CAC is in the works as we speak, so why must the CAP be different?

Haven't heard anything about that.  However, there are a decent number of Auxies that need to have access to CG computer systems for various reasons, so it makes some sense that it is available to them.  Don't think most need them though.  Think I've had my Aux ID card checked once in almost 10 years. 

[SarDragon]

Over the years (a whole bunch of them) I've used a DD Form 2N, a DD Form 1173, and a DD Form 2 (Retired) to get on base. My vehicles have also have base stickers. I do not recall any instance where there was any need for the advanced features of a CAC. As noted above, my need to present a CAP ID card has been minimal, and again, not requiring those advanced features.

We have enough budget problems now. Why do we need to add the additional expense of some kool thing that we really don't need? I would guess that fewer than 20% of our membership meets on military bases, and most probably have reasonable arrangements for entry, so I really don't see any advantage to having a CAC.

[Critical AOA]

Over the years (a whole bunch of them) I've used a DD Form 2N, a DD Form 1173, and a DD Form 2 (Retired) to get on base. My vehicles have also have base stickers. I do not recall any instance where there was any need for the advanced features of a CAC. As noted above, my need to present a CAP ID card has been minimal, and again, not requiring those advanced features.

We have enough budget problems now. Why do we need to add the additional expense of some kool thing that we really don't need. I would guess that fewer than 20% of our membership meets on military bases, and most probably have reasonable arrangements for entry, so I really don't see any advantage to having a CAC.

Well perhaps...
because that is what gets some CAP folks excited or...
because Big Blue has them and we want to be like them or..
because they make us look like official gubment folks.

Take your pick.

[Shuman 14]

USCGAux's version of a CAC is in the works as we speak, so why must the CAP be different?

Haven't heard anything about that.  However, there are a decent number of Auxies that need to have access to CG computer systems for various reasons, so it makes some sense that it is available to them.  Don't think most need them though.  Think I've had my Aux ID card checked once in almost 10 years.

Which was nearly the same as the old green/red IDs of the day... except it was blue.

Like I said, a CAC card is just an ID, until you turn on the credentials in the chip.

[Devil Doc]

USCGAux's version of a CAC is in the works as we speak, so why must the CAP be different?

Haven't heard anything about that.  However, there are a decent number of Auxies that need to have access to CG computer systems for various reasons, so it makes some sense that it is available to them.  Don't think most need them though.  Think I've had my Aux ID card checked once in almost 10 years.

Which was nearly the same as the old green/red IDs of the day... except it was blue.

Like I said, a CAC card is just an ID, until you turn on the credentials in the chip.

Ya trying to do what I do as a job, and my "CREDENTIALS" on my CAC seems to not work, great. Its bad enough I need to remember 5 diff passwords to even get on my work computer and use the programs needed to work. When the credentials expire, its a PITA to redo everything.

[Slim]

Actually they did away with the stickers because the DOD got a really really bad bunch of them 6-7 years ago....and then some bright boy in Robbins AFB said "why do we issue these stupid things anyway....we are doing 100% checks".

The Scanable ID thing only came about a couple of years ago.

Currently the USAF is going to DBIDs (or something like that) for all it's base contractors who don't rate CAC cards.  CAP is currently working with CAP-USAF to work a solution.

And yes I would assume that that solution would meet Directive 12 standards.

Regarding DBIDS, I was speaking with a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago about this.  He's a MSgt in security forces at the local ANG base, and this topic came up.  They haven't fully implemented it there yet, but most of the pieces are pretty much in place.  CAP members with a steady need for base access (wing HQ and the squadron on base) will be able to get DBIDS cards.

What he tells me they've already done for the civilian agencies on base (there is a CBP air wing on base, plus a Border Patrol sector headquarters) is that they've incorporated the DBIDS required info into the bar codes already in place on their agency ID card.  The gate guard scans the bar code, as long as the ID is valid/current, off they go.  He also mentioned that it wouldn't be too hard for NHQ to incorporate the needed DBIDS info into the bar codes they print on our ID cards.  That is, if someone was able to do the legwork to coordinate it.  Shouldn't be too hard on CAP's end as someone-either at NHQ, or probably at the vendor-already has to program our CAPID number into the bar code.

[ARandomCadet]

Actually they did away with the stickers because the DOD got a really really bad bunch of them 6-7 years ago....and then some bright boy in Robbins AFB said "why do we issue these stupid things anyway....we are doing 100% checks".

The Scanable ID thing only came about a couple of years ago.

Currently the USAF is going to DBIDs (or something like that) for all it's base contractors who don't rate CAC cards.  CAP is currently working with CAP-USAF to work a solution.

And yes I would assume that that solution would meet Directive 12 standards.

Regarding DBIDS, I was speaking with a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago about this.  He's a MSgt in security forces at the local ANG base, and this topic came up.  They haven't fully implemented it there yet, but most of the pieces are pretty much in place.  CAP members with a steady need for base access (wing HQ and the squadron on base) will be able to get DBIDS cards.

What he tells me they've already done for the civilian agencies on base (there is a CBP air wing on base, plus a Border Patrol sector headquarters) is that they've incorporated the DBIDS required info into the bar codes already in place on their agency ID card.  The gate guard scans the bar code, as long as the ID is valid/current, off they go.  He also mentioned that it wouldn't be too hard for NHQ to incorporate the needed DBIDS info into the bar codes they print on our ID cards.  That is, if someone was able to do the legwork to coordinate it.  Shouldn't be too hard on CAP's end as someone-either at NHQ, or probably at the vendor-already has to program our CAPID number into the bar code.

DBIDS sounds like a better idea to me than having CACs. I had never heard of DBIDS, as the only thing I heard about IDs here where I live was when they implemented the CACs and then I got to see them and know what they were through a BSA activity that a wing here sponsors every year. But now I think DBIDS would be a better idea. Also where do you make those little figurines that a lot of people have? If it is a website could you PM me the link.

[ARandomCadet]

Actually they did away with the stickers because the DOD got a really really bad bunch of them 6-7 years ago....and then some bright boy in Robbins AFB said "why do we issue these stupid things anyway....we are doing 100% checks".

The Scanable ID thing only came about a couple of years ago.

Currently the USAF is going to DBIDs (or something like that) for all it's base contractors who don't rate CAC cards.  CAP is currently working with CAP-USAF to work a solution.

And yes I would assume that that solution would meet Directive 12 standards.

Regarding DBIDS, I was speaking with a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago about this.  He's a MSgt in security forces at the local ANG base, and this topic came up.  They haven't fully implemented it there yet, but most of the pieces are pretty much in place.  CAP members with a steady need for base access (wing HQ and the squadron on base) will be able to get DBIDS cards.

What he tells me they've already done for the civilian agencies on base (there is a CBP air wing on base, plus a Border Patrol sector headquarters) is that they've incorporated the DBIDS required info into the bar codes already in place on their agency ID card.  The gate guard scans the bar code, as long as the ID is valid/current, off they go.  He also mentioned that it wouldn't be too hard for NHQ to incorporate the needed DBIDS info into the bar codes they print on our ID cards.  That is, if someone was able to do the legwork to coordinate it.  Shouldn't be too hard on CAP's end as someone-either at NHQ, or probably at the vendor-already has to program our CAPID number into the bar code.

DBIDS sounds like a better idea to me than having CACs. I had never heard of DBIDS, as the only thing I heard about IDs here where I live was when they implemented the CACs and then I got to see them and know what they were through a BSA activity that a wing here sponsors every year. But now I think DBIDS would be a better idea.

And this was based on what I heard in a comment, and that sounded like that person what suggesting DBIDS.

[SarDragon]

Also where do you make those little figurines that a lot of people have? If it is a website could you PM me the link.

They are no longer available. They were custom made by a forum member who is no longer with us.

[unmlobo]

When I was stationed at Kirtland AFB, all the CAP members w/o military IDs had to have DBIDS cards.  They were used in lieu of CAPID cards for almost everything, except at the BX and MCSS.  It was a hassle at first but turned out to be better in the long run.  I think DBIDS cards would be a good thing for those in CAP w/o mil IDs and a need for base internet access, just my two cents.

[jimmydeanno]

The overwhelming majority of our members spend the overwhelming majority of their time at local unit functions and internal CAP functions where even having a membership card is virtually unnecessary.  The vast majority of our members don't meet or go to military bases often, and outside agencies typically don't care about our card that says we paid our membership dues. 

I'be been in CAP for 17 years now and have only had to show my CAP ID card two or three times, and those were before eservices was around. 

Even units that meet on bases and have DoD provided computer equipment can usually get connected to the base Qualnet which doesn't require credentials or a CAC for access.

Providing a CAC for our members would be extremely expensive, time consuming, and provide no real benefit to 99% of our member who have never had to show their membership card in the first place.

[a2capt]

Where it is quite the opposite here, if a unit is not on an airport, and that's a whole different set of ID issues, it's at a military base and we use ID cards quite often. Just 1 or 2 times it seems that you -don't- use the card.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Saying CAC card is redundant?

People say the Sahara Desert even when told that "Sahara means desert," so you should say The Sahara instead.

I guess CAC card is here to stay...

Flyer

[a2capt]

"Common Access Control" 'card', I've heard some justify the redundancy by calling it that, too.

[FlyTiger77]

People say the Sahara Desert even when told that "Sahara means desert," so you should say The Sahara instead.

Who knew? That wasn't in the list of the word that I learned in Arabic.

You learn something new everyday. (I actually learned two things with this--the other being the definition of "pleonasm.")

[SarDragon]

OK, one more from the Department of Redundancy Department - The La Brea Tar Pits = the the tar tar pits.

[a2capt]

The La Brea Tar Pits = the the tar tar pits.

Where nobody's dream comes true ..

[Critical AOA]

Here are some Wiki articles on redundant phrases.

The first one is about acronyms and phrases such as "ATM machine" &"PIN number". CAC card falls into this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

The second one references other redundant phrases called pleonasms.  "The La Brea tar pits" is referenced and it is actually accepted useage as La Brea is a proper name in this usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm

I learned something today! 

[Private Investigator]

People say the Sahara Desert even when told that "Sahara means desert," so you should say The Sahara instead.

Who knew? That wasn't in the list of the word that I learned in Arabic.

You learn something new everyday. (I actually learned two things with this--the other being the definition of "pleonasm.")

In Swahili, Latifah means Queen so Queen Latifah is Queen Queen. You guys want to know what Isuzu means in Swahili?   

[ARandomCadet]

Here are some Wiki articles on redundant phrases.

The first one is about acronyms and phrases such as "ATM machine" &"PIN number". CAC card falls into this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

The second one references other redundant phrases called pleonasms.  "The La Brea tar pits" is referenced and it is actually accepted useage as La Brea is a proper name in this usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm

I learned something today!

I hear bankers use the words PIN number. I heard it when I got my debit card. And yes you heard the second sentence right, I am 12 and have a debit card.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Cool. I was 12 and worked on holidays for 5/hour. Made like 300+ over winter break!  Still didn't need a debit card. Where are you going to use it if you can't get anywhere?

[SarDragon]

When I was 12, I got my first DD Form 1173. That had a much higher kool factor than a debit card would have had. Still got one!

[ARandomCadet]

Cool. I was 12 and worked on holidays for 5/hour. Made like 300+ over winter break!  Still didn't need a debit card. Where are you going to use it if you can't get anywhere?

I'm traveling a lot now, I'm gone to three activities for a whole month in a row. I get access to my mom's bank account so I can buy stuff while gone. And for my brother to buy lunch with when my mom is at work.

[ARandomCadet]

When I was 12, I got my first DD Form 1173. That had a much higher kool factor than a debit card would have had. Still got one!

At my school, kids carry DD Form 1173s around like a pilot carrying their pilots license. I live near an AFB, so most kids dads come to the school in flight suits. We are home to the ENJJPT program, so it is pretty interesting hearing where people get stationed. We have kids from all the countries that come here for pilot training.

[NCRblues]

Cool. I was 12 and worked on holidays for 5/hour. Made like 300+ over winter break!  Still didn't need a debit card. Where are you going to use it if you can't get anywhere?

I'm traveling a lot now, I'm gone to three activities for a whole month in a row. I get access to my mom's bank account so I can buy stuff while gone. And for my brother to buy lunch with when my mom is at work.

Troll alert.

What 12 year old is up past midnight on a weekday?

What no stripe cadet is gone for an entire month at activities?

This is trolling.

[ARandomCadet]

Cool. I was 12 and worked on holidays for 5/hour. Made like 300+ over winter break!  Still didn't need a debit card. Where are you going to use it if you can't get anywhere?

I'm traveling a lot now, I'm gone to three activities for a whole month in a row. I get access to my mom's bank account so I can buy stuff while gone. And for my brother to buy lunch with when my mom is at work.

Troll alert.

What 12 year old is up past midnight on a weekday?

What no stripe cadet is gone for an entire month at activities?

This is trolling.

1. School is out, I stay up til' 2 in the morning. Also right now I don't have anything to do, so I can stay up late and sleep til' 10:30 in the morning,
2. Not CAP activities, two week in West Virginia for a national Boy Scout event, then the morning after I get back from that I leave on another Boy Scout trip to Southern Texas, then when I get back from that I immediatly leave on family vacation to Colorado. Btw, if anyone needs updates on the CO fires, like this page:www.facebook.com/westforkfirecolorado

[a2capt]

Nothing to do, you say?
Read your modules, or your boyscout stuff.
Tell your parents you have nothing to do.

[ARandomCadet]

Nothing to do, you say?
Read your modules, or your boyscout stuff.
Tell your parents you have nothing to do.

I already read my modules, already did my Boy Scout stuff for rank. Almost to C/Amn, if it weren't for my schedule and when we do PT, missed it this month along with a couple others because we were on a church trip, and so I can't do it til' July. Otherwise I would be a C/Amn, but I am still a C/AB right now and won't actually promote in the squadron (I will be a C/Amn according to eServices in July) til' August, because of my trips.

[jeders]

Tell your parents you have nothing to do.

I made that mistake once. That's how I got my first paying job at 9.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

If you put CAC after CAP the first thing I think of is Cadet Advisory Council. 

[JoeTomasone]

Anyway, back on topic:

I actually could get behind the issuance of CACs for CAP (say that five times fast!), the main reason being that our ID cards serve more to confuse the heck out of the folks at the gate than they do to identify us.    At the base I go to regularly, CAP has an agreement coordinated through CAP-USAF for access with the Base CC.   Supposedly, this has been promulgated down through SF, but we still have problems securing access because our cards are 1) Non-professional looking and 2) Unknown to the gate folks and 3) Are unscannable.   I was actually turned away at the gate once and made to get a DBIDS card (which, despite having no arrangement to receive said card was issued within minutes).   

While I was in Iraq as a contractor, I had a CAC.   Essentially, I had to show it all over the base to get access to pretty much anything.  It identified me as a civilian contractor, and was unmistakable by everyone.   

Consider this: We could be issued civilian CACs identifying us as CAP (with no mention of grade, etc, so no confusion with AD and all the potential issues).   The cards would be scannable, allowing access only at designated facilities, but would not generate the confusion that our CAP ID cards do.   That way, we'd have a "universally" accepted ID that is more in line with our parent service, and can instantly facilitate whatever access to/on base a member might require (even for special activities or Encampments) that the USG would control and could limit/revoke.    If you don't need a CAC on a regular basis, that's fine, it stays in your wallet.  If you do happen to go somewhere that it's required, you have it, and don't have to risk being turned away at the gate.

One other anecdote: The front gate of the base is about 90% reliably accepting CAP ID cards, but the gate through which we have to bring large vehicles (like our Comms trailer), it's closer to 5%.   I've had to wait close to an extra 30 minutes just for someone to confirm that the CAP ID was valid for entry.   It's not the end of the world, but an example of something that a CAC would likely have cleared up almost immediately.   What I do NOT know is how far they might have explored the possibility that I was trying to gain ILLEGITIMATE access to the base, and what COULD have transpired if they hadn't gotten the right answer.    Or maybe I'm watching too much Burn Notice lately?

[lordmonar]

The main issue of the CAC card is the cost and time.

Who foots the bill?

But as I said before.......CAP and CAP-USAF are working the issue right now.  I expect some info on it shortly.

[JoeTomasone]

I doubt that the cost of 67,00ish CAC (cards!) would amount to much more than a rounding error to USAF's bean counters.   

To be fiscally prudent, however, I would simply advocate that CAP be issued CAC-"like" cards that look like a normal CAC but that aren't smartcards.   A CAC-imitating DBIDS, essentially.  CAP should also re-introduce multi-year membership options so that the cost of the cards would drop (i.e. they don't all require re-issuance yearly).   

[a2capt]

The multi-year memberships were not used much, apparently. I managed to get two 3-year renewals in, and was probably one of the last thorns in their books.

The claim for dumping it was that the new accounting package could not handle dues on account past the fiscal year. It's a liability until it's earned.

Probably the same kind of bonehead content management software they use on the NHQ site, that makes a freaking mess of file names.

[JackFrost3k]

People say the Sahara Desert even when told that "Sahara means desert," so you should say The Sahara instead.

Who knew? That wasn't in the list of the word that I learned in Arabic.

You learn something new everyday. (I actually learned two things with this--the other being the definition of "pleonasm.")

In Swahili, Latifah means Queen so Queen Latifah is Queen Queen. You guys want to know what Isuzu means in Swahili?   

Mind-blowned

[Luis R. Ramos]

More:

FSR radio and ISR radio. FSR is Family Service Radio, ISR is Inter-Squad Radio, so you are really saying Family Service Radio radio, and Inter-Squad Radio radio.

Flyer

[EMT-83]

FRS

[/] drift

[Luis R. Ramos]

My post re FRS drift off-topic? Not really. It is related to the topic in as some stated that Saying "CAC card is repetition," and others made the point it is not the only such combination. I am adding other examples...

Flyer