Promotion system needs guidelines, dates, and followup

[Eclipse]

Well, yes, you kinda prompted the thread.

Pylon says if a member wants to pursue promotion it should be on them?  It already is.  Anyone not interested in promotion
can simply not pursue PD.  Few, if any duties will be restricted, and they never have to worry about the conversation.

Everyone else who pursues the PD Levels, even in a marginal, disconnected way, should be assumed to be interested, and
the pursing it should be a given.

To further River's point - make senior-member promotions automatic, and require any objections be filed 90 days before
the TIG date.  This allows for people "not ready" to be formally disapproved, with the requisite appeal available, etc.,
and everyone else can just move on.

Simple problem, simple solution.

[Private Investigator]

I agree that this is a Personnel responsibity, but my experience has been that less then 1/3rd of the units in a wing actually have a Personnel officer,
and probably only 1/3rd of those are actually doing it "right".  The other either have triple-tracked members or the CC is doing it.

Based on the SUIs I did as an IG. You are very correct.

I like your proposal   :clap:

[MSG Mac]

There is already a function under "Member reports" which lists everybody who meets the requirements for Duty Performance Promotions. It updates as a person meets the requirements (TIG, Training Level, and age) as recorded at National HQ.

[Eclipse]

There is already a function under "Member reports" which lists everybody who meets the requirements for Duty Performance Promotions. It updates as a person meets the requirements (TIG, Training Level, and age) as recorded at National HQ.

The system sends no alerts or otherwise flags the staffers, and no where does the system indicate the status of promotion requests, especially those
which are not processed fully through eServices. (Wings do things differently).

The entire process is manual, and there is no published expectation that a promotion be processed timely, if at all.

With the new requirement that promotions boards are a "will" instead of a "should", the time to process is likely to extend even more.

A fun fact to consider which pretty much encapsulates where the real emphasis items are in CAP and eServices.
ORMS send emails for anything involving property, including comm equipment.  There's an entire separate system for
processing financial paperwork (Sertify).  Promotions and related actions are still left to be manually noticed with inconsistent timeline expectations,
different processes in every wing, and a general disregard for the negative impact on moral and initiative when you have multiple standards for
something which is one of the few ways to recognize our membership but is ultimately meaningless from a mission perspective.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

A fun fact to consider which pretty much encapsulates where the real emphasis items are in CAP and eServices.
ORMS send emails for anything involving property, including comm equipment.  There's an entire separate system for
processing financial paperwork (Sertify).  Promotions and related actions are still left to be manually noticed with inconsistent timeline expectations,
different processes in every wing, and a general disregard for the negative impact on moral and initiative when you have multiple standards for
something which is one of the few ways to recognize our membership but is ultimately meaningless from a mission perspective.

Missing govt supplied equipment or financial issues will sink a unit / group / wing / CAP quickly. It's no surprise NHQ IT resources were spent on addressing those areas.

Ideally you would be able to go to a screen that showed exactly what you need to qualify for your next grade. To do that correctly you'd need the PD section of e-Services to track the few things it does not (Class Instruction / Director, Conference Attendance, etc) and ideally the pieces of all the Specialty Tracks in there as well.

I don't see this in the near or medium term.

[Eclipse]

Missing govt supplied equipment or financial issues will sink a unit / group / wing / CAP quickly. It's no surprise NHQ IT resources were spent on addressing those areas.

Agreed, but you kinda missed the point.

When things are "important" they are fixed expeditiously.

When they aren't "important" they languish for years, regardless of the effect on the membership.

Yes, units and wings get stood down when there are issues with finances and property.  Those are quick hits which are re mediated just as fast when they are found.

The issue with promotions, decorations, and similar recognition for our membership is a slow death that has cost us more then we will ever know in both initiated and former members.

I don't see this in the near or medium term.

Sadly, I'd have to agree.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The issue with promotions, decorations, and similar recognition for our membership is a slow death that has cost us more then we will ever know in both initiated and former members.

No joke and PM sent.

[CAP_truth]

A report available in esevice has a "Member Promotion Eligibiliity" which show all personnel that re current eligible for promotion. I think it should be the units personnel officer or commander to review this every month.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Why should the Personnel Officer have to initiate a request for the report? I add my voice to Eclipse and others in this. Although I am not ready to have the system automatically promote a member, I think the technology is in place to automate a list sent via email to the Commander, PDO, and Personnel Officer that "so and so TIG is up, meets all requirements for...."

I look regularly at these reports, by the way.

[Eclipse]

I think it should be the units personnel officer or commander to review this every month.

That would already be a typical duty for Personnel.  That presupposes the unit has a Personnel officer, and that he's not an empty shirt.

Also, reviewing a report doesn't put a clock on action, nor does it put a clock on upstream actions.

My issue continues to be members who are looking for the stewardship of their CAP experience that they deserve and which is an inherent responsibility
of commanders at all levels, and which is sorely lacking in the current state of CAP.

[LGM30GMCC]

You and I just have different views of how to handle that. You seem to want an automated system that takes responsibility off commanders and makes it automatic unless someone says no.

I want to see more training, and expectations of SMs to actually do their jobs and be held accountable if they do not.

[Eclipse]

You and I just have different views of how to handle that. You seem to want an automated system that takes responsibility off commanders and makes it automatic unless someone says no.

No, that's not what I am saying, that was a tangent.

The root here is a system of intrusive automation that forces action, whether denial or approval, so that members are not left hanging with no recourse
or even knowledge of the status of a request for weeks, months, sometimes years.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

The Member Promotion Eligibility Report is good for what it is. A list of people with enough TIG and:
SMs that have Level 1
2nd Lts that have a Tech Rating
1st Lts that have Level 2
Captains that have Level 3
Majors that have Level 4

It does not / can not tell Captain X that if he attend 1 more conference that will complete Level 3 and with TIG make him eligible. Or Tell 2nd Lt Skippy that he needs X to finish his CP Tech Rating.

E-services has a section for What Do I Need for pilot ratings. This the the type of system we need.

If we collected the data required then you could have report that listed each member and has X of Y items completed for Level Z. This would avoid Capt Q from asking about Maj at 2 years and 9 months to then find out he needs CLC, etc to get done in 3 months.

That said a good PD Officer has developed a path for each member in their unit to achieve their PD goals to match their grade goals.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It varies, sometimes wildly, from squadron to squadron as to just what is "required," and too often it is not "quantified."

A member can get told that s/he does not qualify for promotion just by "checking all the boxes," but then it is not stated concretely what is required.

It is so subjective that promotion/advancement can get kiboshed by anyone in the chain, and a reason why does not have to be given...just "you're not ready," "it's not time," and the one I loathe the most, "you don't just get handed promotions."  In large part that is Bravo Sierra because some people, who know the "right" people, DO get "handed promotions."

The Navy Sea Cadet Corps has a much more delineated process for their promotions.  You do not pin on (literal, since they have metal grade) Ensign for at least a year, and that is after taking required, real tests.  They do not normally give grade for equivalent military grade, or for "special skills," the way CAP does.  Of course, they do not go any higher than Lieutenant Commander.

So, some might say, "why do you not join the NSCC?"  I would in a heartbeat if I could find a unit that would have any use for an old, broken-down Ensign who could not get promoted past Captain in CAP.  That is about as likely as me becoming National CC of CAP.

All right, some may say "the military does it the same way...anyone in the chain can stop a promotion."  In some ways that is true, but in the military a reason usually has to be given, based on performance reports, and giving the candidate options for corrective action.

Right now the "process," such as it is, is so subjective and open to whim that it gives me sour stomach just to think of it.

I honestly am beginning to wonder if I am wasting my time in this organisation.  Please do not say "then just quit," because it is not that easy for me.  CAP has been a large part of my life for about 20 years.  That is a hard thing to just slough off, especially since nature abhorrs a vacuum without something to fill that vacuum with.

[Ned]

I honestly am beginning to wonder if I am wasting my time in this organisation. 

Captain,

Without for a moment suggesting that your concerns about commanders's discrections in promotions or the wisdom of providing additional guidance to the field about grade-related leadership standards are not valid, I am not sure I understand about how getting or not getting promoted relates to whether or not you are "wasting your time in CAP."

Mostly because what we do in CAP is so rarely related to getting promoted.  Highly valued volunteers like yourself spend countless thousands of hours volunteering their time to save lives, educate others, and run an outstanding cadet program.  We do not spend thousands of hours trying to get promoted.

From where I sit, job satisfaction in CAP is related to our actual duties, whether that is working as a Testing Officer in a rural cadet unit, or waking folks up at O-Dark Thirty to alert them for ES duties.  Some jobs are more exciting than others, of course, but if you are truly "wasting your time" in CAP, it is time to talk to your boss about a new assignment.

Since becoming a senior member about 40 years ago, I have been promoted exactly 3 times.  I have completed my fair share of CAP PD classes, including SLS, CLC, RSC, and NSC.  I knew I needed to get them done for promotion, of course, but they were also necessary for me to learn how to do my job on the wing, region, and national staff.

I fully understand that it is important to recgognize and reward our members for their selfless service.  And both decororations and promotions are part of the package.

But I'd also like to think that one can have a rewarding CAP career as Capt., Lt, or even a senior member.  As long as the work is meaningful and the member feels valued for their work.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Colonel Lee:

What you say makes sense, and I will try to take it in the spirit in which I am sure you meant it.

I am sure you are familiar with Abraham Maslow.  I studied him quite extensively in university Sociology and Social Psychology courses.

http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/a/hierarchyneeds.htm

So much of what I do is behind-the-scenes and not very visible outside of the squadron, and even within the squadron.  Very few people at Group or Wing level even know me.  That is just the sort of person I am; though you would not know it from my posts on CT , I tend to be very reserved, if not an extreme introvert.  The character of Lt. Reg Barclay on Star Trek: The Next Generation could have been modelled on me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Barclay

I suppose what is most troublesome to me is the lack of concrete standards.  Hearing something like "you are not ready" is not an incentive to improve.

No, I do not view promotions and ribbons as the be-all and end-all in CAP, but they are part of it, otherwise they would not exist, correct?

Since you say you have been promoted three times, I will assume you came in at a higher grade.  I did not.  I worked my way up from SMWOG.

It may well be that we should derive the greatest satisfaction from our jobs within CAP.  However, if that were to solely be the case, there would not be promotions and awards.

This may sound selfish, but I do not apologise for it.  I do not want to spend the rest of my CAP career, however long that may be, halted at the rank of Captain.

No, I do not feel valued for the work I do, since so much of it goes unnoticed.

[Eclipse]

Ned,

Not everyone has the opportunity to serve at the level that you, I, and others have had the privilege.

The majority of members spent their entire CAP careers at the unit level, with promotions being one of the few tangible acknowledgements
or what they have accomplished.

I agree most members do not spend their time working to get promoted, but that just underscores the reasons why the process should
not be such a fog-shrouded mystery that can take weeks/months/years to accomplish.  When your time is up, you should be promoted, or not,
but never left wondering if anyone has even submitted you.

If we treated Cadet promotions like we do Senior promotions, we'd have a lot more free time since wed have few, if any cadets to worry about.

[SarDragon]

So much of what I do is behind-the-scenes and not very visible outside of the squadron, and even within the squadron.  Very few people at Group or Wing level even know me.  That is just the sort of person I am; though you would not know it from my posts on CT , I tend to be very reserved, if not an extreme introvert.

[redacted]

This may sound selfish, but I do not apologise [sic] for it.  I do not want to spend the rest of my CAP career, however long that may be, halted at the rank of Captain.

No, I do not feel valued for the work I do, since so much of it goes unnoticed.

These two statements run counter to each other. If you are, by nature, reserved and introverted, you need to work to get noticed. It's not an easy thing to do, especially since we have no periodic performance review process in place where you can toot your own horn.

As reprehensible as some think it is, many commanders don't "get it" when it comes to managing and recognizing the folks down in the trenches. The attitude is, "nobody's complaining, so everything must be OK."

Sell yourself. Make your contributions known. Get out to group and wing events so those folks do get to know you.  Hiding in a cave is counterproductive to your goals.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If it were only as easy as you say for me, SarDragon.

PM enroute.

[ProdigalJim]

I can see both sides of this debate. I know from 30+ years of playing corporate political football that nobody is responsible for your career progression other than you.

That said, I think there's a subtle distinction here between those who draw their reward in satisfaction, cadet feedback, etc., and those who seek promotion (or have it sought on their behalf) and inexplicably can't get it through.

While I disagree with the notion of "automatic unless blocked," I think Eclipse is 100% on the right track in asking why we can't have eServices play a more active role in managing the promotions process.

Where I work, every personnel action is handled online...and as an Executive, I'm often at the end of the chain for them. My email gets a message, "HR Service Center: A Personnel Action In Your Mailbox Requires Your Attention."

I can log in to our version of eServices, and there in my Inbox will be something I have do something about; approve someone's raise, approve a grade-level promotion, a bonus, a termination, a retirement, etc. There are three buttons -- Approve, Deny or Return. No matter which button I click, a system-generated email goes to 1) the originator of the request, 2) the most-recent approver (the person just below me who sent it my way) and 3) to the employee it affects.

There's a Comments section where I can say something like, "Mike, you have to attach the such-and-such to justify the bonus" before I hit the Return button. Or I can simply hit Return without a comment.

Even if I ignore the message for awhile, after 10 days the system will automatically escalate the request to my boss. And the subject line will basically tell on me (HR Service Center: A Personnel Action Has Been Escalated). That way my boss knows I didn't do anything about it. And the same business rules apply. The originator, the prior-level approver and the employee all get told that the system escalated the request to the next level because I failed to act on it.

If it escalates too far, it will be Returned all the way back to the originator and the last person who said "Yes."

We could write the business rules so that you have, say, 21 days to act on a request. That's ample time to account for work life obligations, vacations, and all the other "we're just volunteers" reasons why actions are generally untimely in Civil Air Patrol.

Philosophically, however, I think today's system of essentially putting the paperwork in a bottle and having no idea what the disposition is after you've sent it...is highly unprofessional. I don't think it's too much to ask to know WHERE something is in the process.

As to Cyborg's issue, from a professional-development point-of-view, he deserves better answers than "you're not ready."