Promotion system needs guidelines, dates, and followup

[Eclipse]

I actually agree with you, but that's not the reality of CAP.

For these types of discussions to actually get anywhere, we need to speak in terms of the real world, not the one we'd like it to be, and this is where they usually get off track.

I've been a staunch advocate of a CAP reboot, especially in regards to the grades, but since that's not likely to happen, we need to accept the fact that grade is essentially a delimiter of longevity, with little room for the subjective "exemplary".

In the military, and most workplaces, "exemplary" would be easy to "see", if harder to define, but in CAP, sadly, the first and last time most members hear the word "expectation" is around promotion time, with little follow-up.  The mantra here and in real life of "we're just volunteers" is proof enough of that.

The truth is that the majority of members, especially those who get past Captain, are deserving of promotion, and the delays are either administrative failings or backhanded disciplinary actions.  Neither is fair or acceptable, especially in the volunteer paradigm.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was just promoted to Captain. If in the next 3 years I ONLY do my assigned jobs, does that mean I don't deserve a promotion because I only volunteered and did my job to the best of my ability, but I didn't do an "above and beyond" job? Then why bother with PD?

[Eclipse]

I was just promoted to Captain. If in the next 3 years I ONLY do my assigned jobs, does that mean I don't deserve a promotion because I only volunteered and did my job to the best of my ability, but I didn't do an "above and beyond" job? Then why bother with PD?

That's the $64k question.

In the military and most corporations, promotions are supposed to be to provide additional authority for a larger scope going forward, not
a reward for past performance.  CAP doesn't work that way.

Also, what if you did your job, but were never asked to do anything but the baseline?  Command failing?  Yes.  Not your fault.

A "successful" is a "successful".

I'm drifting my own thread, so shame, shame. 

The question isn't actually about deserving the promotion, only forcing the requests be acted on timely.  As I said, from a respect for the member perspective, a denial is better then the open-ended situation we have today.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Either way "examplary" sounds like example to me. Example, model, etc. If you do the job, you are exemplary of a good staffer.

[Eclipse]

Either way "examplary" sounds like example to me. Example, model, etc. If you do the job, you are exemplary of a good staffer.

I wouldn't disagree.  And in CAP "examplary" = "Do your job to at least a "SAT" level and don't be a PITA.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I wonder, as I have in the past, what all this says for people like me who are not visibly "excelling" but are just worker bees in the background, doing the best we can with what we have.  I would say that very few people outside of my squadron even know who I am.  Is "doing the best I can with what I have" being "exemplary," or is it just being a "drone?"

[Camas]

I was just promoted to Captain. If in the next 3 years I ONLY do my assigned jobs, does that mean I don't deserve a promotion because I only volunteered and did my job to the best of my ability, but I didn't do an "above and beyond" job? Then why bother with PD?

Good point! My guess is that the "above and beyond" phrase is aimed at the member who is pretty much a "no show" for the most part then shows up just in time for promotion. Is this someone who is deserving of a promotion? Probably not.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So what were really are talking about is PD and "Attend regularly". Mix in the Officer oath with the cadet oath I say!

[oracle471]

With the 27 December 2012 version of CAPR 35-5 now requiring Commanders at all echelons of command to utilize promotion boards I am not sure speedier promotions are the likely outcome.

CAPR 35-5  Section A, Sub-Section 1-10, Para a. "The commander at each echelon will appoint a promotion board to consider all promotion and demotion actions and make recommendations to the promoting authority.  The promotion board will consist of at least three officers as follows:  personnel officer, professional development officer and one additional officer designated by the commander.  The chairman of the promotion board should be equal to or higher than the highest grade being recommended.  Appointment to promotion boards will be reflected by appropriate personnel authorizations.  The
board is responsible for considering all pertinent information pertaining to promotion actions and ensuring that the member being considered for promotion meets the minimum eligibility
requirements.  The  promotion board should meet frequently enough to assure timely consideration of recommendations received.  The action by the promotion board will be in the
form of a recommendation to the approving authority as to whether the promotion or demotion should be approved or disapproved."

Note: Red text indicates change

[arajca]

Boy, I got my last promotion in just before the change. (Lt Col - 17 Dec 2012)

Instead of notifying commanders or personnel officers, the system should notify the member 90 and 30 days out. They can pursue the promotion if they so choose.

[Eclipse]

Why should me members have a choice?

Why should they have to "pursue" it?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Why should they have to "pursue" it?

Maybe there are some in various CAP echelons who think, "hey, if they want it bad enough, they'll have to beat the doors down" (meaning: make a general jerk of yourself and beg and wheedle for something you've already qualified for).

[JeffDG]

Why should me members have a choice?

Why should they have to "pursue" it?

What if a member doesn't want a promotion?

For example, a Captain who wants to take SOS, a promotion would make him/her ineligible to take the course.

[Eclipse]

There probably are, and that's one of the problems.

[LGM30GMCC]

I do think it is the responsibility of the member to be aware of their own progress; (No one cares about your career as much as you do -- good advice in the USAF and in CAP) however it is also the responsibility of the supervisors to know their people, and unit commanders to...ya know...STEP UP AND LEAD/COMMAND. It is not the responsibility of a group, wing, or region to hold someone's hand and poke them every time. "Hey, are you doing promotions, hey are you doing promotions?"

It's certainly something to ask during inspections and responsibility of the wing commander to make sure the hold-up isn't at their staff. But that's why it's important for wing commanders, group commanders, and squadron commanders to keep talking to each other. Probably on a weekly basis there should be at least an e-mail 'Hey we're good' or 'Hey got a question about...?' That's the avenue to ensure people are getting promoted.

If there is a problem...you do the same thing with any other issue. Poke the appropriate commander a few times and if that isn't working, let them know you are getting really concerned about it, and if that doesn't work...go to the next level commander. That should raise some serious attention on the subject and then the system in the specific weak spot will be addressed.

Again, I think you are facing a localized problem Eclipse that requires a localized command intervention. Not a revamping of the national system.

[Eclipse]

If there is a problem...you do the same thing with any other issue. Poke the appropriate commander a few times and if that isn't working, let them know you are getting really concerned about it, and if that doesn't work...go to the next level commander. That should raise some serious attention on the subject and then the system in the specific weak spot will be addressed.

"Concerned"?
This is the system we have today, and it literally doesn't work, but the nice thing is that technology can actually help the situation, since the
majority of the inertia is based on simply "not bothering".  Any commander who doesn't want to be bothered can act on the promotion,
and make it someone else's problem, or, you know, close the issue.

You have two types of members.
Type A++ - knows the hour and minute his TIG is up, and will hound you until it's done.  Annoying, yes.  But then a published process with reasonable
deadlines and action expectations keeps him at bay.  Lack of action without a good justification beyond "I was too busy / didn't care" will potentially sap this member's initiative and put his membership at risk.  And it unprofessional and unfair.

Type Other - Doesn't know the regs or doesn't want to "make a fuss about himself", so he stews in his own juices until someone else notices.
Lack of action without a good justification beyond "I was too busy / didn't care" will potentially sap this member's initiative and put his membership at risk.  And it unprofessional and unfair.


See the pattern?  80-90%+ of the promotions in CAP fall into one of those two categories.  The responses and delays tell a member far more about their value to CAP then anything else they encounter.

And again, then we wonder why we have retention issues.

Again, I think you are facing a localized problem Eclipse that requires a localized command intervention. Not a revamping of the national system.

Why do you insist on purporting this is somehow local to me?  I promise you, it not.

This is a national phenomena.

[LGM30GMCC]

To quote you on oh so many occasions...

[cite please]

[Eclipse]

To quote you on oh so many occasions...

[cite please]

http://www.captalk.net

Search the word "promotions"

[RiverAux]

In the real world that Ecliplse mentioned, CAP promotions ARE automatic for just about all grades so long as someone rememebers to submit the paperwork.  Lets make the real world match the regulations and just make them automatic, assuming all PD/TIG requirements are met, at least up to Captain.  That takes care of most members with no muss or fuss.

If we really want to somehow make sure that only "worthy" people are in the higher grades, lets focus what little time and attention we give to personnel issues to the field grades.  Heck, make them even tougher to get if you want. 

But, keep in mind that under the current system CAP grade is just a reward for past service and has nothing at all to do with any increased levels of responsibility or authority.  Once you get a grade, its yours for life so long as you don't do something really stupid.  Heck, don't do anything and you can keep it without a problem. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Type Other - Doesn't know the regs or doesn't want to "make a fuss about himself", so he stews in his own juices until someone else notices.
Lack of action without a good justification beyond "I was too busy / didn't care" will potentially sap this member's initiative and put his membership at risk.  And it unprofessional and unfair.

You are talking about me, yes?  That is all right, because in many ways it is very true.  I fall into the category of "not making a fuss about myself," but I am that way in virtually all areas of my life, not just CAP.  I even had a past girlfriend's dad ask me if I spoke words longer than two syllables!

Seriously, a big reason why I am that way with CAP is because of events I have personally observed over many years...someone pushing too hard for a promotion that they were due and ending up having it blocked because someone up the chain in the GOBN got the huff with it.  In one incident a person was told that as long as they remained in CAP they would never see another promotion.

I do not want to end up in that position, and I do not want to let apathy get the better of me, but it is a struggle.