Civilian Population Confusion with CAP Members Wear of Military Field Uniforms

[RADIOMAN015]

Interestingly, during a recent practice mission we had a team (all in BDU's) performing a mission tasking, when a civilian approached a team member and asked what they were doing.  Apparently thought (and specifically stated to)  the team was the US Army Corps of Engineers checking out that mission's fixed objective.

Now I know all the members on that team had the appropriate correct BDU uniform (with CAP blue/white, etc) and the specific member the civilian approached also has the CAP Emergency Services patch http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html displayed.  Perhaps it is possible that the orange safety vest might have covered the CAP tape and the ES patch

I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform.   Maybe all safety vests need to have Civil Air Patrol distinctively displayed on both the front and back, perhaps just the Emergency Services Patch as above would be the easiest to put on the vests .   Perhaps  all headgear needs to have Civil Air Patrol (with no rank) also on it as adding to "distinctiveness"

I wonder if they all were wearing Blue BDU's what the civilian would have assumed as far as organizational affiliation 

Have we done all we can to ensure our "distinctiveness" as CIVIL AIR PATROL, the official civilian Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, especially on field uniform wear      How will our future branding strategy affect uniforms, if at all    

RM


         

[MSG Mac]

Just because we have CAP written all over our uniforms, doesn't mean that people won't let their assumptions override their literacy.

[lordmonar]

You can't fix stupid....so don't bother.
a.  There is no need to bend over backward to avoid confusion.....someone thinks we are "real military" we correct them and press on.
b.  I guess it is a good thing that civilans saw our people in uniform working professionally....and they just assumed that we were real military.  That's a good thing.
c.  People are going to mistake us for someone else no matter what we wear....the US ARMY has not worn BDU for 5-6 years now.....if we all wore BBDU's they would think we were the cops,  So we lose for winning.

[adamblank]

An answer looking for a problem.  Not a big deal if we are confused.  Sounds like CAP gets a good job for their work. 

[ol'fido]

Interestingly, during a recent practice mission we had a team (all in BDU's) performing a mission tasking, when a civilian approached a team member and asked what they were doing.  Apparently thought (and specifically stated to)  the team was the US Army Corps of Engineers checking out that mission's fixed objective.

Now I know all the members on that team had the appropriate correct BDU uniform (with CAP blue/white, etc) and the specific member the civilian approached also has the CAP Emergency Services patch http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html displayed.  Perhaps it is possible that the orange safety vest might have covered the CAP tape and the ES patch

I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform.   Maybe all safety vests need to have Civil Air Patrol distinctively displayed on both the front and back, perhaps just the Emergency Services Patch as above would be the easiest to put on the vests .   Perhaps  all headgear needs to have Civil Air Patrol (with no rank) also on it as adding to "distinctiveness"

I wonder if they all were wearing Blue BDU's what the civilian would have assumed as far as organizational affiliation 

Have we done all we can to ensure our "distinctiveness" as CIVIL AIR PATROL, the official civilian Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, especially on field uniform wear      How will our future branding strategy affect uniforms, if at all    

RM


       

Well, you had to exhume the dead horse and saddle it up for another ride didn't you.

Who cares(other than you apparently) that we might ocassionally be confused with members of the military? Really, who does? If somebody mistakes you for a member of the military while passing by, so what? They were mistaken and you don't know about it. If they approach you about it, you say, we're with the "Civil Air Patrol". End of story. Why do we need to go to absurd lengths in uniforms or regulations or "branding" to resolve something that can be done with a five(5), that's 1,2,3,4,5 minute conversation and some common sense.

The bigger question is why I am spending this amount of time feeding a troll. Answer: Just in that kind of mood I guess.

[NIN]

The bigger question is why I am spending this amount of time feeding a troll. Answer: Just in that kind of mood I guess.

Hey, you know, occasionally its fun to watch. 

So now its not enough that the membership is a bunch of big fat fakers, but now its CAP's fault because people can't read.

[Flying Pig]

The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff.  I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?".  And these are other pilots at airports I land at.  Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters.   It actually happens a lot.

You can only do so much. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

[BrannG]

I'm new around here on the forums, but I have a long CAP history as well as Air Force Active Duty. RM - I have come to the conclusion that you are very very "CAP is NOT a military ANYTHING" view and your heart set on that view. Let me lay down a few things to your "separative" ideals.

1) CAP is in fact filled with civilian volunteers, TRUE. We are NOT members of the United States Air Force and we are not enlisted or commissioned in the United States Armed Forces in any way. Once again - TRUE.

2) CAP -IS- the official Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, they are our brothers and sisters in blue, as we are their brothers and sisters, we are a single family, and that is how THEY see it as well. Why do I say this? Because I happen to be friends with a Command Chief Master Sergeant, the same one who happens to be the CCMSGT of the 1st Air Force and works with the AOC, oh - that would also make him one of the commanding Air Force personnel who works with CAP on the daily.

3) Being that we are part of the United States Air Force family, we are in fact under the MAJCOM of the 1st Air Force / Air Education Command. They place several PAID as well as Category E Reservists inside the command structure of CAP for this same reason. We report to the whom? Oh yes - The Secretary of the Air Force.

BUT! Before I go on to #4.. yes, your right in the fact that we the civilian auxiliary and I in NO way tell ANYONE I am a member of the Armed Forces. I tell them I am a civilian volunteer in the Civil Air Patrol, when they ask why I wear an Air Force uniform (yep.. they barely notice the differences - NOT our issue, its theirs) I inform them that we are the Official United States Air Force Auxiliary and that we assist our sisters and brothers in the Air Force when ever and how ever we can. So.. on that note..

4) We were given the right to wear the USAF Uniform with changes they approve. They select the level of distinction (remember the maroon fiasco anyone? Who did that - oh yes.. the USAF..) and they are the ones who would like us represent them in a positive light with honor and loyalty. We should do that also. BUT - since we are civilians, we are not required to observe their regulations, it is a choice we have. By choosing the wear the USAF Uniform, I choose to HONOR the United States Air Force. Thus I wear the AF Blues mostly, and BDU or Flight Suit when required of me. Everything I do while wearing that uniform reflects on them. They think so highly of their brothers and sisters, that they gave us the HONOR of wearing their uniforms and being a member of their family. 

Please stop bashing the CAP members who choose to wear the USAF Uniform, they gave us that option as a way to honor us as we honor them. Take that honor and be PROUD. Correctly representing yourself while in uniform is the responsibility of the cadet and more importantly, senior member that wears it. As CAP creates more public awareness (hopefully) I believe the confusion will not be as noticeable as it is today. If you are upset that citizens don't know CAP from Active Duty, then educate them don't bring down CAP, boost it up.

I think I have made my view clear. And I can tell you, its pretty [darn] close to the view of USAF personnel that I know. Have a wonderful weekend and fly safe!

[RADIOMAN015]

The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff.  I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?".  And these are other pilots at airports I land at.  Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters.   It actually happens a lot.

You can only do so much.

I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.

Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)).  In the very distant past (mid 1960's) the CAP uniform did have a Baseball type hat that had the smaller Emergency Services patch on it that could be worn as a uniform item (at least what I saw the senior members wearing at that time).

Although I joke here on the list about it, I definitely wouldn't want to see anything done extreme with the field uniforms, and since the vests are pretty much a requirement in the field this seems like an easy thing to implement.
Surely the debate of having all of us in a single utility uniform for ES will probably continue :angel:

RM

[Extremepredjudice]

Sir, empirically prove civilians are confused as to what we are. Your evidence is anecdotal. Please come back when you have empirical evidence.

[FlyTiger77]

The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff.  I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?".  And these are other pilots at airports I land at.  Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters.   It actually happens a lot.

You can only do so much.

I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.

Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)).

Why not just require a vest that states: "WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY"? That should resolve any doubt and totally remove any possible "Wanna Bee" [sic] ambitions from the CIVILIAN members of our organization.

On a slightly more serious note, if our uniforms say "Civil Air Patrol," I don't think we have a responsibility to read it to the public. Something about leading a horse to water and such.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I find myself in agreement with the Lieutenant Colonel.

Even before we got the blue epaulettes and hard rank taken away, there were still significant identifiers on our uniforms that said who we were.









If someone gets anything other than CIVIL AIR PATROL out of that, it's not our problem.

[AngelWings]

This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.

[Nathan]

I think I got mistaken for a military guy once.

Yet, I woke up today, and the world appears to still be spinning.

How crazy is that?

[That Anonymous Guy]

I think I got mistaken for a military guy once.

Yet, I woke up today, and the world appears to still be spinning.

How crazy is that?

You know what's even crazier? I walked into Rite-Aid in BDUs and a guy actually recognized us as CAP!

[Eclipse]

I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attentionto any distinctive markings on the uniform.

What someone mistakes us for, because they can't be bothered, doesn't change our missions or operations an iota.
Whether they think we are military or not is irrelevant.

Anything else?

[krnlpanick]

That is quite possibly the best use of quoting I have ever seen Eclipse.  :clap:

[RADIOMAN015]

The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff.  I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?".  And these are other pilots at airports I land at.  Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters.   It actually happens a lot.

You can only do so much.

I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.

Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)).

Why not just require a vest that states: "WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY"? That should resolve any doubt and totally remove any possible "Wanna Bee" [sic] ambitions from the CIVILIAN members of our organization.

On a slightly more serious note, if our uniforms say "Civil Air Patrol," I don't think we have a responsibility to read it to the public. Something about leading a horse to water and such.

Please note AGAIN If one is wearing the safety vest it does cover up  much one's front shirt area & of course back, so Civil Air Patrol tape normally can't be seen on the uniform.    The ES patch is relatively small and conservative and puts a visible  CAP as an organization on that vest.  Simple, easy, inexpensive -- what more could one ask for   Than if they still don't get it, it's on them not on us :angel: (but of course there's some that just relish in the chance of being thought they are "real" military anyways    )
RM             

[Pylon]

Everyone could wear field uniforms distinctive from anything any military branch, police force, or other organization has ever worn along with giant, reflective "CAP" lettering across the back and chest and people would still mistake us for something else.  It's not a distinctiveness issue.  A lot of the general population just has no interest in or knowledge of government agencies, military services, and various organizations' uniforms out there.  And sometimes people just don't bother to read.

I've been wearing Marine Corps uniforms, as distinctive as they are, and still been called "soldier", "Army guy" and even asked by a guy "What branch of the military are you?" and by some lady "Wait, are you in the real military?"  And the Marines do a lot more advertising and branding than CAP does.  Heck, most of our uniforms haven't even changed since WWII.

So in this instance it's not at all a distinctiveness issue, it's not a failure to do proper public awareness or branding.  Being mistaken for something else is going to occassionally happen no matter what we do or what we wear.