CAP/Police officer members

[Sapper168]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

[FlyTiger77]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

If I recall correctly, civilian police agencies may retain jurisdiction over the geographic area of an installation. As an MP a long time ago, we were told that if the state police wanted to come on the installation, it was their perogative (notwithstanding restricted areas, SCIFs, etc, etc, etc).

[shoresfinest]

those who are flaunting their cap regs over an OFFICER OF THE LAW, have sunk to a new low. There is no showing off, and no cap reg above state or federal law. My uncle died in the line of duty, and was a CAP officer. I hope you see a respect for the uniform they wear, because it has a higher meaning then ours. If they are on duty, then they are right for wearing their uniform.

[EMT-83]

No their uniform does not have a higher meaning than ours, sorry.

Police officers and CAP members have both died in the line of duty, which really has no bearing on the conversation.

Full disclosure, 31 years as dispatcher for the local PD. I'm kinda fond of cops too.

[Eclipse]

Police officers and CAP members have both died in the line of duty, which really has no bearing on the conversation.

None whatsoever.

If they are on duty, then they are right for wearing their uniform.

In the vast majority of cases, if they are on duty, they can't play CAP, and that will be by both our regs and theirs.

[abdsp51]

In the case of squadrons that meet on military instalations, I seem to remember when i was active duty that it was a federal offense to bring a firearm of any kind onto a military base if you were not a member of the armed forces.  Maybe its changed or they give leeway for CAP mambers?

If I recall correctly, civilian police agencies may retain jurisdiction over the geographic area of an installation. As an MP a long time ago, we were told that if the state police wanted to come on the installation, it was their perogative (notwithstanding restricted areas, SCIFs, etc, etc, etc).

This will be entirely based upon the jurisdiction/s on the installation.  If the installation is entirely exclusive jurisdiction local agencies may come on to serve summons and other duties related to civil, family law etc per what is written out in a MOU/MOA.  If there is concurrent or proprietary jurisdiction then the responsibility is shared.  Most installations have a policy that local LEO are not allowed on the installation and to carry unless they are on "Official Business".  This does not apply to federal agencies however and LEOSA does not apply. 

[Private Investigator]

Can a CAP member , that is a police officer, attend squadron meetings in police uniform (with side arm) ? if so are there limitations or special situations where it is allowed?

I never did and I retired after 25+ years as a policeman. It really depends on where you are at.

Because my wife took me to a 'chick flick' and the love interest was a highway patrolman and he was going to all kinds of places in his cruiser and in uniform. I always thought it looked unprofessional for a cop to go bowling in uniform or take the family to Shakeys for a free dinner. JMHO.

Having worked both coasts I can say law enforcement professionalism varies greatly from place to place. BTW, I would like a decaf and a lemon filled donut.   

[Flying Pig]

When I was Deputy Commander for Cadets at Sq 45 at March AFB, I brought my police car on base with all of my weapons, to include all of my SWAT gear and did a 1hr presentation for the cadets.  Department sanctioned and the Deptartment paid me 1hr of overtime to do it because it was a community event.   After my presentation, I stayed and finished out the evening in uniform doing DCC duties.  Afterwards, I drove, unescorted right off base. I made a quick stop and let the gate guard know I was done, he radioed his supervisor to let him know.  He then asked if my department was hiring we talked for about 15 minutes as I gave him some hiring advice, and I was on my way. 

You wont believe this, but I actually allowed cadets to try on my entry vest, hold my M4 (unloaded with a breech block) look through the ACOG and even point the laser at stuff!!!   They even took pictures of each other with the equipment on!

It my unit where I was the SqCC, there were many times I stopped by the unit meeting, in uniform, in a marked patrol car on my way home.  I was "out of service" on the computer.  Not getting paid.  We get take home patrol cars.  Many times I would stay a couple hours AND deal with Sq business!!!  All done with the knowledge of the agency.

So before you start blasting your member, perhaps you should find out the circumstances under which he is attending. 

[Eclipse]

All done with the knowledge of the agency.

The concurrence of the LEA is an issue for the member, but the concurrence of CAP is the issue for CAP.  The fact that the LEA says it's "OK", doesn't make it "OK" with CAP.

The firearms aside, on the CAP side, this is no different than some one at Target expecting to wear their work uniform to CAP activities.

[bflynn]

Is uniform wear required to attend CAP SM meetings?

[Eclipse]

Yes, though some members argue they are not.

Wear ... when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

[bflynn]

I don't think 39-1 dictates that a uniform must be worn at meetings.

I could be wrong, I'm looking now.

[lordmonar]

This is one of those mole hill/mountain "issues".

The world is not going to end if a CAP member does not wear a uniform to a meeting.

It is preferable that you be in a uniform....and sometimes required....but it is better to be there doing your job then not because you don't have time to go home and get your uniform on.

The issue with the gun.

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

[Eclipse]

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

Academically it's a discussion where you have to accept the commander's interpretation of Table 1-1.

Practically speaking this occurs 1000 times a week and the world does not end.

[bflynn]

The table Eclipse referenced in 39-1 is talking about when uniforms may be worn.  It is not a table of requirements.  Otherwise, what would a new member do, not attend until they have a uniform?

I commonly see and understand that there are two times when a SM must wear a uniform - when flying in a CAP airplane and when working with cadets.  But these are mostly squadron or wing level pages, not NHQ pages.

[Eclipse]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

[bflynn]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

Reference?

[Eclipse]

Seriously?

[jeders]

The table says "wear" not "may wear"...

There are far more times then that - any ES activity requires a uniform.

Reference?

CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1. Wearing the CAP Uniform.

The column headings are Wear, Do Not Wear, and Optional. The only time optional is checked is for social functions. That means that from this quote, the uniform WILL be worn.

Wear ... when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

Now as Eclipse has mentioned, in practical reality this particular section is violated regularly. In fact, as a squadron commander I violated it a couple of times myself for purposes of expediency. But we should not accept this as a norm, only as an exception.

The issue with the gun.

An officer in police uniform at a meeting.....I don't see a problem, not really.

This, I think, is the real issue along with the officer being at CAP while "on-duty." If he's there off-duty without his sidearm but in uniform, as long as it's not a regular occurrence, then I don't think anyone will care too much. If, however, he is regularly there acting in a CAP capacity while in his PD uniform and carrying his sidearm, then we have issues. If his schedule places him on duty during CAP meetings, then I would suggest that he take some time off until his schedule changes to where he can attend properly.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah...a cop demo would have been awesome in my blue polo shirt and dockers.