Major and above not able to take SOS at Air University

[Eclipse]

This is actually changing. Look at the new online I-Cut course and the online SLS and CLC  courses that are being presented in many wings. There is less and less FTF courses coming.

Let's hope not.

Online SLS/CLC requires pretty hefty approval and a real good excuse, it's not by any means the preferred way.

What online I-Cut?

[SarDragon]

ICUT = Introductory (?) Communications User Training, the long promised replacement for BCUT and ACUT. I'll believe it when I see it. Essentially vaporware for the last 6(?) years.

[Eclipse]

Exactly.

[tonyairplane]

You can hope all you want, that's the way it is going.  SLS, ClC, Safety, SOS, War College.........there's no stopping the online revolution!

Also, show me one place where it says "preferred" in any regulation on training requirements.

[SARDOC]

If the Air University won't allow Majors and above enroll in the Squadron Officer Course then NHQ needs to change the website because it clearly reads Captain (or higher).

[Eclipse]

Also, show me one place where it says "preferred" in any regulation on training requirements.

http://tinyurl.com/3ch7h43

[Ed Bos]

Also, show me one place where it says "preferred" in any regulation on training requirements.

http://tinyurl.com/3ch7h43

HA! That's hilarious.

And inappropriate, to wit, the Air University courses that are equivalent to CAP courses are equally acceptable, and no more preferred by anyone. Except as an opinion.

The decision to pursue SOS, ACSC, and AWC is a decision made by individuals, with the guidance and support of their peers and mentors. You don't get to decide that attending RSC or NSC are preferred for anyone. Your opinion is not "self evident," and saying so may indicate a level of arrogance that I would certainly hope is an inaccurate assessment of your character.

Edit: To be abundantly clear, I respect you and your service, and your comments in this case are what I'm criticizing.  I do not wish to name-call, and I earnestly believe you must be more reasonable in a face-to-face forum than this online one. Again, criticizing your comments, not yourself, Eclipse.

[Eclipse]

As a registered smarty pants, I take what I give...

"equally acceptable" doesn't mean "preferred". 

How many of us know members who were successful military officers who enter CAP with a folder of certificates, and are promoted to advanced grade and attain the majority of their PD levels through outside equivalences, then struggle to serve effectively at their grade level because they
know very little about CAP?

I wouldn't call that "preferred."

The intention of the PD program is to grow effective staff members through direct training and member networking.  Those who choose an equivalence,
especially one wholly unrelated to CAP, are missing the point. 

I've completed Level IV, all without waivers or equivelnces, and served on staff for any number of SLS/CLC/TLC, etc. For the most part, the best part of these seminars was the networking between members and getting a fresh perspective from others in the same trench.  You can't get that online, or from a USAF class that never even mentions CAP.

[Ed Bos]

"equally acceptable" doesn't mean "preferred". 

The intention of the PD program is to grow effective staff members through direct training and member networking.  Those who choose an equivalence, especially one wholly unrelated to CAP, are missing the point. 

I'm not intimating that "equally acceptable" means "preferred." I'm insisting that the preference is individual, and not up to me or anyone else.

If you prefer to see folks go to RSC & NSC, that's fine. I prefer people make an informed decision, evaluate their options, and decide what's best for them without being bullied because of someone's say-so.

Let's not forget that we're the Air Force's Auxiliary, and learning more about how the Air Force works via the same exacting coursework that Air Force members are required to take is a privilege that we are extended. I'd say that's just as important as networking with your peers for a week. Not to mention that you can network at conferences and other venues just as successfully.

And finally, no one should be expected to know their job from attending a week-long seminar. To discourage correspondence courses with a lot of good (IMHO) information for the sake of just getting CAP specific information ignores the fact that personnel are supposed to be getting on-the-job training, and have open lines of communication with their counterparts already.

[N Harmon]

PD courses are tickets you punch to get promoted. It is worth it to attend as many as you can, even if they're not required for your promotion or specialty.  You don't go from being just not ready for Major to suddenly promotable just because you go attend a course for a week.

[Eclipse]

Let's not forget that we're the Air Force's Auxiliary, and learning more about how the Air Force works via the same exacting coursework that Air Force members are required to take is a privilege that we are extended. I'd say that's just as important as networking with your peers for a week. Not to mention that you can network at conferences and other venues just as successfully.

And finally, no one should be expected to know their job from attending a week-long seminar. To discourage correspondence courses with a lot of good (IMHO) information for the sake of just getting CAP specific information ignores the fact that personnel are supposed to be getting on-the-job training, and have open lines of communication with their counterparts already.

I have no issue with correspondence course, per-se, however they are not really appropriate in the CAP paradigm.  When USAF people take them, it is generally because they are already ensconced 24x7 in USAF culture and activity.  When CAP people take them it is generally exactly the opposite, and they don't have time to fit CAP into their schedule, which, to me, is kind of a self-correcting issue and part of the point.  If yo don't have time for CAP, you don't have time, period.

Pamphlet-fodder and buzz words aside, I'd like to really know what you think ACSC, AWC, or even SOS is even relevant to the practical, real-world
universe of the average laterally-mobile CAP member.

[AirDX]

Here's a simple equation for you:

RSC cost for me: $1200 minimum.
SOS cost: $0.

Which do you think was preferred in my book?             

[Ed Bos]

Pamphlet-fodder and buzz words aside, I'd like to really know what you think ACSC, AWC, or even SOS is even relevant to the practical, real-world universe of the average laterally-mobile CAP member.

Real world, it's insight into our sponsoring service and the world they maneuver in.  It's discussions on leadership, management, military programs and global issues that give perspective into how the AF operates in conjunction with her sister services, and by extension, how we must fall into the picture.

If we understand what the AF is trying to accomplish along their assigned missions, we can understand why CAP is supported the way it is.

Buzz-words aside, it's valuable information for anyone who wants it.

Honestly, in serving at unit level, wing level, and now being attached to the NESA schoolhouse unit, I doubt there's anything as valuable to me in the RSC/NSC curriculum that I haven't already gotten from knowing what I know and networking with the personnel I talk to already. So the option to take SOS and ACSC have been a valuable privilege that I was glad to avail myself of.

As with anything else, individuals will benefit from their opportunities according to their perspective and abilities. It doesn't matter which courses you take, at the end of the day, it's all up to individuals to make or break the chances their given with the tools at hand.

[Eclipse]

Real world, it's insight into our sponsoring service and the world they maneuver in.  It's discussions on leadership, management, military programs and global issues that give perspective into how the AF operates in conjunction with her sister services, and by extension, how we must fall into the picture.

If we understand what the AF is trying to accomplish along their assigned missions, we can understand why CAP is supported the way it is.

And how much information regarding USAF-assigned CAP missions is contained in these classes?  The majority of members have no contact with,
or need to understand, the USAF's combat role and taskings beyond the lesser-abstract of the CAP culture.  CAP's USAF-Assigned missions rarely intersect the USAF's broader defense roles except in extremely unusual cases like intercept assistance.

Our leaders are far better served with a ground-level knowledge of eservices and leading in the volunteer paradigm then time spent studying
war-fighting doctrine or the history of Linebacker.

Buzz-words aside, it's valuable information for anyone who wants it.

To whom and for what?  There's lots of valuable information I want, but unless it is directly relevent to a member's CAP service, CAP should not be involved in providing it or giving people credit for it.  We don't have the time or resources to provide generalized education to our members which is not directly relevant to our day-to-day operations and activities.

Honestly, in serving at unit level, wing level, and now being attached to the NESA schoolhouse unit, I doubt there's anything as valuable to me in the RSC/NSC curriculum that I haven't already gotten from knowing what I know and networking with the personnel I talk to already. So the option to take SOS and ACSC have been a valuable privilege that I was glad to avail myself of.

I would sadly have to agree to a point on this as well, although I would hazard our experiences are not necessarily common to all CAP members.
And further, due to program issues, far too many members take the respective classes too late.   SLS is supposed to be taken before you have a significant role in a unit or group, RSC before you have a significant role in a wing or Region, and NSC before you assume major jobs at the national level.

[Short Field]

When USAF people take them, it is generally because they are already ensconced 24x7 in USAF culture and activity.

USAF Officer now only take them if they are not selected to go in-residence.  It is a rack & stack by a selection board and all the non-selects take it by distance learning.  In the Army, you take the the distance learning courses after the rack & stack - and if you get selected for a distance learning course.  Top percent goes in-residence, next group get to complete it by distance learning, and the rest don't get it on their record.

BITD, we took them by distance learning in order to improve our odds of being selected by the in-residence selection board.  I was in a AWC seminar and the Army member had to drop out because he was not selected for in-residence or distance learning.

[AirDX]

And how much information regarding USAF-assigned CAP missions is contained in these classes?  The majority of members have no contact with,
or need to understand, the USAF's combat role and taskings beyond the lesser-abstract of the CAP culture.  CAP's USAF-Assigned missions rarely intersect the USAF's broader defense roles except in extremely unusual cases like intercept assistance.

Our leaders are far better served with a ground-level knowledge of eservices and leading in the volunteer paradigm then time spent studying
war-fighting doctrine or the history of Linebacker.

And by this you are demonstrating your lack of knowledge of the actual content of the current SOS course 20.  The 3 course modules are concerned with ethical leadership, building teams, and decision making.  There are articles discussing and giving examples of all the subjects in the context of the major military operations of the last 25 years, but no warfighting doctrine or "Linebacker" history.  I think CAP has seen plenty of instances where ethical leadership has failed; I think team building is universal, though you will trumpet how it's somehow different with CAP, and decision making is universally applicable.

I could no doubt make a case for ethics training in SOS being better than what's given in RSC (if it's even touched on there; I don't know) but at least in SOS I had to study the material, and pass a test on it, not sit in a room full of doughnut and coffee suckers and be lectured for an hour about it.  How many fail the final exam in RSC?

I have a wing job among my various hats; I talk to my peers and the folks at region, I get all the institutional knowledge I need in real time.  And what, you want me to take a course in how to use e-services?  Don't waste my time.

Now I'm not slamming RSC, even though I sound like it a bit.  Our region RSC (PCR) is supposed to be awesome, I'm sure it's every bit as good as I've been told.  I, however, don't see it as an absolute need for me (though I would love to actually go), and as I mention up topic, I have a lot better things to use the money it would cost me to go to RSC for.  I think you are just getting on your high horse, my-way-or-the-highway, and don't want to admit that there are aspects to both that fit different people's needs perfectly adequately.

More importantly, it's in the reg, has been for a long time, powerful and influential people have put it in and left it in, so complaining is moot.  Do what you think is right.  Say FIDO.   

[SAR-EMT1]

One could also spin this as the AF saying that CAP Majors are equivalent to AF Majors   

In terms of the Air University paperwork system , we are... Which as I explained in an earlier post on another thread  is why for many years the Air Force assumed all who enrolled in AFIADL courses (SOS, ACSC, AWC had already completed a BS/BA)
Because they thought that CAP required it for Officer Ranks.

[SAR-EMT1]

You have another option. ACSC will also count for RSC and is available to CAP majors.

Negative. AFIADL requires ACSC applicants to be SOS grads or a grad of a sister service program: Army Advanced Officer's course etc...

AWC applicants must show proof of ACSC attendance or equivalent as well as proof of time served as a Commander at the squadron level or higher. ( Or command of a naval vessel - for Navy/CG applicants)
( CAP Squadron CC time counts - or at least it did- )

[ELTHunter]

I enrolled in SOS as a Major a couple of years ago but dropped due to time constraints.  Anybody who believes SOS was a "short cut" to LtCol promotion has never seen the curriculum requirements of SOS.  There are several modules, all of which require a seperate test to be administered by a test admin (whom I believe has to be CAP-USAF or USAF).  It is a very reading intensive course and isn't simply sitting at home "checking the box". 

On the other hand, how many people that have attended an RSC have been sent home or otherwise not completed it?  As a degreed professional with over 20 years management experience, I couldn't imagine what benefit I could get out of attending an in-residence CAP class other than losing a week of my life to CAP that I will never get back.  I would much rather spend my PTO at a cadet encampment, NESA or some other CAP activity and actually accomplish something.  I viewed SOS as a way to be more aligned with the USAF requirements and actually learn something I might not otherwise have to learn.

[SARDOC]

On the other hand, how many people that have attended an RSC have been sent home or otherwise not completed it?  As a degreed professional with over 20 years management experience, I couldn't imagine what benefit I could get out of attending an in-residence CAP class other than losing a week of my life to CAP that I will never get back.  I would much rather spend my PTO at a cadet encampment, NESA or some other CAP activity and actually accomplish something.  I viewed SOS as a way to be more aligned with the USAF requirements and actually learn something I might not otherwise have to learn.

I recently attended the Middle Eastern Region Staff College.  I highly recommend attending this school.  It was actually a very challenging and rewarding experience.  I can't really explain it because their curriculum was actually very well thought out and planned.  I went into it thinking the whole CAP professional Development program was weak and not really worth the effort other than to check the block.  That was not the case with the MER RSC.  Developed Friends and fellow CAP professionals from around the Country.  I liked it so much that I'd like to go back as staff if they would ever invite me.  I wish they'd push this curriculum out to the other RSC's and you'd see people change their tune about CAP PD.