FOUO question on aviation materials.... is CAPR 60-1 FOUO or can I attach it to a potential member on guidance on CAP regs?
I thought the only thing that was FOUO was CAP frequencies (none of which are listed in 60-1)...?
Considering the member can download their own copy of 60-1 on cap.gov, I'm sure it's safe for you to give to them.
good point
Quotecan I attach it to a potential member
A member can download, however, visitors with no ID or login can not get to the pubs and regs IIRC.
Publications and forms are open to the public, no login required. Strange isn't it??
Yes it is Strange. This has been gone over before, but a portal.cap.gov would be great for this kind of thing. I like the USCG one.
Quote from: Tubacap on June 22, 2007, 12:16:50 PM
Yes it is Strange. This has been gone over before, but a portal.cap.gov would be great for this kind of thing. I like the USCG one.
We've also talked about just that type of thing (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1450.0). I think it would be a great improvement to member communications, if implemented properly.
What's the big secret about our regs?
Knowing the procedure a USAF PJ uses to search for and rescue a downed airman behind enemy lines might give advantage to the enemy, but who cares if people know how we run an expanded square search, or how to deactivate an ELT?
Yeah, we have a hard enough time getting our people to read the regs, it's probably not much of a threat that someone else will!
Gentlemen, we must take care, as we have heard that officers from the Navy of the great state of Nebraska have been known to infiltrate our ranks..and I dare say, without fear of redress that our Reg's far surpass their Reg's..I would hate to think of them attempting to duplicate our uniforms for their Navy garb..The public wouldn't know who was who..
Quote from: justin_bailey on June 22, 2007, 11:45:57 AM
I thought the only thing that was FOUO was CAP frequencies (none of which are listed in 60-1)...?
Subordinate Unit Inspection results are FOUO, also
Quote from: captrncap on June 22, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
Subordinate Unit Inspection results are FOUO, also
No, they're not. They may be considered
confidential (not a security classification), but they're not FOUO. CAP does not have the ability to classify ANYTHING as FOUO or otherwise; our frequencies are tagged as FOUO by the Air Force, not CAP.
Quote from: Mustang on June 22, 2007, 05:18:41 PM
Quote from: captrncap on June 22, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
Subordinate Unit Inspection results are FOUO, also
No, they're not. They may be considered confidential, but they're not FOUO. CAP does not have the ability to classify ANYTHING as FOUO; our frequencies are classified FOUO by the Air Force, not CAP.
Then why do they say:
This is a PRIVILEGED DOCUMENT that cannot be released in whole or part to persons or agencies outside the Civil Air Patrol or the USAF, nor can it be republished in whole or part in any publication not containing this statement, including Civil Air Patrol magazines and general use pamphlets, without the express approval of the Executive Director of the Civil Air Patrol and CAP-USAF/CC
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Because whoever wrote that didn't know better? "FOUO" is an official DOD information security thing.
I've seen lots of people in CAP get "FOUO-happy" lately, all playing "I've got a secret" with themselves, but the fact remains that CAP cannot designate ANYTHING as "FOUO", or SECRET, or TOP SECRET or any other actual security designation. CAP-USAF can, but CAP cannot.
Ergo, that last line should read 'FOR OFFICIAL CAP USE ONLY", which doesn't carry the same meaning as a US government designation of FOUO.
SUI results may be privileged documents, but that's due to CAP's lawyers.
They likely don't want them posted in place like this forum.
Whether its FOUO or FOCUO, the ramifications are only internal, likely have about as much teeth as any of our other regs.
In an org that can't even get our grades right in official documents, the nuances of FOUO are going to be lost.
True, I think the spirit of it is that we don't publicize certain things to the world. The more and more I get involved with various aspects of our organization, the more I would like for the world as a hole not to know everything. As was already said, not that anything is really Secret, just... confidential.
If you don't have to have a password or secret handshake to get to it neither does any other www'er on the planet. So go ahead and give the the direct link to the documents, or just send them the docs whatever you want. what's gonna happen someone from nat's will send you a heavy fisted C&D order, delivered by gentlemen in suits and black vans?
Quote from: Tubacap on June 22, 2007, 07:21:34 PM
As was already said, not that anything is really Secret, just... confidential.
That is when you password the documents and only give the password to those who need it, along with a warning that only the recipients are to open it. Not much you can do if they pass it on, along with the password. . .
The regulations are so secret, anyone can access them. Access through eServices is NOT required. Log on as general public then at the home screen go to Members, and there are all the forms and publications or anything else you want to read or download. I download the zaip regulation file and zip forms file and install them on laptop computers for the CAC. And I'm not currently a member.
Quote from: Mustang on June 22, 2007, 05:18:41 PM
No, they're not. They may be considered confidential (not a security classification), but they're not FOUO. CAP does not have the ability to classify ANYTHING as FOUO...
"Information may be classified at one of the following three levels...: Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. Except as otherwise provided by statute, no other terms shall be used to identify United States classified information." See DoD 5200.1-R and Executive Orders 12958 and 13292. Given CAP's role with the Government, it would be inadvisable for CAP to use the term "confidential" except in regards to classified material.
Who can declare information classified is defined in the above references. Who can decide it's FOUO is not defined. FOUO is not restricted to the DoD. DHS for instance, has its own regulation on declaring documents FOUO. CAP can declare its own documents FOUO.
The Air Force has issued a supplement to the DoD regulation regarding FOUO "Information that has not been given a security classification pursuant to the criteria of an Executive Order, but which may be withheld from the public
because disclosure would cause a foreseeable harm to an interest protected by one or more [of nine] FOIA exemptions...shall be considered as being for official use only (FOUO). No other material shall be considered FOUO and FOUO is not authorized as an anemic form of classification to protect national security interests."
Italics and the phrase about "anemic" are in the USAF supplement but not in the base DoD Reg 5400.7. Both the reg and supplement are silent on who decides info is FOUO.
Three of the FOIA exemptions are:
a. Information that pertains solely to the internal rules and practices of the Agency.
b. Information, the release of which could reasonably be expected to constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of the personal privacy of individuals. This includes personal information, personnel and medical records.
c. Information specifically exempted by a statute establishing particular criteria for withholding. Frequencies probably fall under this exemption.
As for that funky wording from CAP, that's not per reg, but CAP can use any wording it wants if it doesn't follow the reg. If people want to make it FOCUO, make sure not to leave a space between the C and U.
Mike
If you're not sure if you can send something or not, just send them a link to the material; if it turns out to be on a secure site, it won't work for them anyway. Even if something isa ccidentally posted to the public internet, at least it won't be you sending it to them.
Quote from: sardak on June 23, 2007, 06:46:21 AM
Given CAP's role with the Government, it would be inadvisable for CAP to use the term "confidential" except in regards to classified material.
I believe it is acceptable to be labeled "CAP Confidential" however, CAP Proprietary or CAP sensitive is better.
Quote from: sardak on June 23, 2007, 06:46:21 AM
Who can declare information classified is defined in the above references. Who can decide it's FOUO is not defined. FOUO is not restricted to the DoD. DHS for instance, has its own regulation on declaring documents FOUO. CAP can declare its own documents FOUO.
As I understand it, FOUO was a Government designation that came into voque after 9/11 that could be used across the spectrum of government agencies for stuff that was sensitive or that lower level classifications didn't match from agency to agency.....just my interpretation of what I was told.
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Quote from: Mustang on June 22, 2007, 05:26:14 PM
Because whoever wrote that didn't know better? "FOUO" is an official DOD information security thing.
I've seen lots of people in CAP get "FOUO-happy" lately, all playing "I've got a secret" with themselves, but the fact remains that CAP cannot designate ANYTHING as "FOUO", or SECRET, or TOP SECRET or any other actual security designation. CAP-USAF can, but CAP cannot.
Ergo, that last line should read 'FOR OFFICIAL CAP USE ONLY", which doesn't carry the same meaning as a US government designation of FOUO.
SUI results may be privileged documents, but that's due to CAP's lawyers.
FOUO is also an official DOE label. But I agree with your opinion that way to many people in CAP go hog wild with labeling every e-mail they send as FOUO. If I recall correctly, it's a violation of the rules to label non-classified information as being classified, so most CAP folks are in violation of good OPSEC practices by over use of the designation.
Quote from: BillB on June 23, 2007, 12:31:32 AM
The regulations are so secret, anyone can access them. Access through eServices is NOT required. Log on as general public then at the home screen go to Members, and there are all the forms and publications or anything else you want to read or download. I download the zaip regulation file and zip forms file and install them on laptop computers for the CAC. And I'm not currently a member.
In fact, most USAF publications are open access on the internet (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/orgs.asp?type=pubs) as well.
FOUO has been around for a long time. I have Navy training materials with that designation dationg back to the 60s.