2010 Winter National Board

[Mustang]

Quality Cadet Unit award....an extension of "everybody gets a trophy" in Little League. 

I love how the NCAC Chair and Vice Chair finish each other's sentences...what a cute couple!   

[Major Carrales]

Quality Cadet Unit award....an extension of "everybody gets a trophy" in Little League. 

I disagree.  This would not be a competition, but rather a true acknowledgement of achievements.  I mean, if a Unit begins as a cadet flight in January and works to become a cadet squadron by December, that is worth getting this sort of award.  I will agree that the critieria will have to be finely established to avaoid the situation you describe.

I love how the NCAC Chair and Vice Chair finish each other's sentences...what a cute couple!   

Now, if only CAPTALKERs could be that well insync.

[Major Carrales]

The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?".   Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".

The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity.  Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance."  This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively.  And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.

[JoeTomasone]

The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?".   Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".

The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity.  Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance."  This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively.  And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.

"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there. 

I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear.    Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.

I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.

[Major Carrales]

"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there. 

I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear.    Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.

I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.

A letigimate question. However, a CAP Convoy would be the better answer.  I wonder at which speeds that can occur... experience the most trouble.  I normally drive the CAP van like someone's elderly grandparent, overly cautious.

[JoeTomasone]

  I normally drive the CAP van like someone's elderly grandparent, overly cautious.

I'm that way with the Wing Comm Trailer - mostly because of the way it makes my Jeep handle.  Not badly, just... Differently.  Requires a lot more concentration than normal driving.

But we digress.

(They are on a break at the WB at the moment...)

[don736]

Any news on the proposed changes to CAPR 60-1 (Agenda Item 7c, grounding CAP Pilots at age 80, and "O" Pilots at 70)?

[Major Carrales]

And were back...
Limited OPSEC WAIVER- Currently OPSEC is required to all members. The motion excludes other members patrons, cadet sponsors, congressional and legilstive members.  Are there members in Legislative Squadrons that are active in OPS?  the answer seems to be yes, they are, to some degree, already screened.

Col Smith, of Texas, wants clairity on who the members are.  Ms Parker indicates that Cadet Sponsors need Level 1.  There is an amendment to exclude Cadet Sponsors as they need Level 1. 

Motion Carried.

Legislative people is an issue as in the State Level.  Moved to Amend that the National Staff amend o have fexibility. 

Motion Carried.

Discussion...none...MOTION CARRIED

[JoeTomasone]

Any news on the proposed changes to CAPR 60-1 (Agenda Item 7c, grounding CAP Pilots at age 80, and "O" Pilots at 70)?

On 7a now.   I'm wondering where 4, 5, and 6 went.   

[Major Carrales]

The idea is raised in creating a Single Form from IT, similar to a CAPF 101, that lists all e-services.  Motion Carried.

[Major Carrales]

STAN EVAL changes... policy review via conferences.  Premit USAF funds to be used by Wing to provide training to privates.  Training for Wing Commanders on how to best use STANEVAL.  More criteria for O-FLIGHTS STAN EVAL Courses at intervals instead of just once.

New Agenda Item is inserted as be Motion.

Aerospace Education Officer of the year is discussed.  Accept nominations for the naming of this award.  General Gene M Holm(sp) is suggested.  Discussion...none...motion carried.  Will be run by the family for approval.

Revision of CAP R 35-7...moved to governance commitee.  Agenda 8 bravo to be removed, but will instead go to committee.

Cadet Advisiory term limits...

Info on Mishaps to Pilots...tabled.

Conduct of members using Social Media (hint: myspace, facebook and captalk)  A committee will be appointed with a chair.  Major Pabon will lead the committee.  This is a complex issue being worked though it,  there are a number of legal issues and the like.   This will be given at the Summer National Board.

Ribbon for referred to Committee.  Motion to Reconsidered. Is an Award a uniform issue?  The ribbon goes to the Uniform committee.

Membership Applications...an issue existe en re how fingerprint card will be doen with law enforcement involvment.

ID cards for CAP Members.  Col Jensen wanted all members to have a photo id card.  It is in two parts 1) Can we have a photo id, 2) how about govenrment ID cards.

The proposal is, after looking at costs, that each senior member gets a photo id card every year if that member wants another one they can buy it.  The membership dues will entitle them to one card.  Cadets will not get an ID Card.  At 18 cadets can upgrade.

There is a possible phase in date of the end of 2011.  The agenda item will be written an posted and acted on the the NEC meeting.

Questions...two issues, 1) Will everyone get a digital photo and will it be 2)verified by the Wing Commander.   There will be a booth at Pacific Region, for example, to photo everyone.

The Intent is to ask the USAF for a staff member to get a photo ID Card.  Is there an estimate on cost.  it will be a little more expensive, however, per year national prints 85 to 90 thousand cards.  With everone getting only one card, will lessen the load.  It should, then, Break even.

Col Jensen...will require that all members have a photo in e-services.  It is a good practice to have this alread. It should work with a long phase in time.

Why do this if the US government does not accept it.  The focus should be to get a govenrment ID card that would allow entry.

Money shoudl be save in that the card will not include the unit.  We might be able to go to HLS and have it to where they can help us at TSA check points.  The CAP Photo ID can be used at GA airport check points.

Wing Commanders do not approve Photo ids, it is the Unit Commander.  Unit Commander may need more training.

What happens when a person gets promoted?  The can get another one or keep the old one until the year ends. Photos are to be updated every 5 years.

The ID can be addressed at the individual Military Installations commander's will.

[FARRIER]

Aerospace Education Officer of the year is discussed.  Accept nominations for the naming of this award.  General Gene M Holm(sp) is suggested.  Discussion...none...motion carried.  Will be run by the family for approval.

Wish they would stick with the original reccomendation, naming the award after LTC Zumwalt.

[Major Carrales]

Cadet Advisory Term Limits...
Meetings would be improved by teleportation.

The Proposed agenda items was to remove CAC term limits, they like the terms as they are.  The wording could be changed to allow 2 years in each positon.  This will generate experience and continuity. (losing feed)

[NIN]

Cadet Advisory Term Limits...
Meetings would be improved by teleportation.

There are a whole ton of things that would be improved by teleportation, but I doubt meetings are one of them, unless you can teleport me out of said meeting...

The Proposed agenda items was to remove CAC term limits, they like the terms as they are.  The wording could be changed to allow 2 years in each positon.  This will generate experience and continuity. (losing feed)

And creating a stagnation effect.  How long is your average cadet in the CAP cadet program?  4 years? 5?  If you "crank the rank," you can complete the program in 32-34 months, but figure that in the "real word" it takes most cadets 2-ish years to get to the Mitchell, and thence onward to phase III & IV... So 2 years at "each position" in the CAC seems excessive, and does not allow cadets to "move up."

Think about what would happen if your cadet commander stayed in the same position for 2 years.  The cadets below are limited in their ability to "move up."

I think the concept is a bad idea altogether.

[Major Carrales]

(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College.  NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.

While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted.  The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade.  National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.

Motion Carried.

NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity.  A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded.  A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP.  Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform.  They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire.  Motion Carried.

Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc.  Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.   

Does this include appointments to the National Staff?  That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee.  For transparency.

Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance.  It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.

Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level.  Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals.  Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.

Item goes to vote...Motion Fails

Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly.  Discussion?  Approved by aclaimation.

New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood.  An English Museum has required unit patches.  The Wing Commanders will present these awards.  There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.

[Eclipse]

I'm in the middle of teaching a UCC - can I put in my early request for a 1-page coherent summary once this is over?

[Major Carrales]

I'm in the middle of teaching a UCC - can I put in my early request for a 1-page coherent summary once this is over?

You may put in anything you'd like.  I was typing it as it happened, sorry if it was not "coherent" enough for you.

[JCJ]

(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College.  NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.

While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted.  The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade.  National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.

Motion Carried.

NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity.  A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded.  A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP.  Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform.  They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire.  Motion Carried.

Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc.  Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.   

Does this include appointments to the National Staff?  That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee.  For transparency.

Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance.  It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.

Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level.  Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals.  Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.

Item goes to vote...Motion Fails

Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly.  Discussion?  Approved by aclaimation.

New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood.  An English Museum has required unit patches.  The Wing Commanders will present these awards.  There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.

Life membership was to Lt. Gen. Charles Searock, USAF (Ret.) outgoing BOG member and long time CAP member/supporter

[JCJ]

NEC made this call a couple of years ago after receiving a safety briefing with VERY compelling data rearding the CG & high rollover risk of a 15 pax van with the rearmost seat occupied.  It was known that the decision would be unpopular, but the safety data presented was really compelling.

The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?".   Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".

The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity.  Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance."  This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively.  And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.

"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there. 

I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear.    Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.

I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.

[Major Carrales]

(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College.  NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.

While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted.  The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade.  National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.

Motion Carried.

NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity.  A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded.  A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP.  Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform.  They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire.  Motion Carried.

Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc.  Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.   

Does this include appointments to the National Staff?  That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee.  For transparency.

Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance.  It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.

Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level.  Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals.  Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.

Item goes to vote...Motion Fails

Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly.  Discussion?  Approved by aclaimation.

New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood.  An English Museum has required unit patches.  The Wing Commanders will present these awards.  There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.

Life membership was to Lt. Gen. Charles Searock, USAF (Ret.) outgoing BOG member and long time CAP member/supporter

Ooops...that is what happens when you are just typing in a "shorthand" fashion.  I tried to be as accurate as possible, however, I am not always perfect.  There was little time to correct things as I would have liked.  I was only trying to present the information to those that had back reception with the feed.

I was hoping other listeners would help correct such.