Perhaps we can start a run down here on what happens during the "live" board meeting. (For those of us who can not stay all day at our computers)
;D thank you spike for starting it...i was going to but just did not have the gumption.
Really looking forword to this and really really looking forword to the debates on captalk >:D
I tried the 'live stream' twice in the past few minutes, no joy....anyone getting it?
uh...1330 EST so i don't think its up yet, although i did try and get something but no such luck so far
My mistake...I took the NHQ email as accurate when it said 1300...I should know better
(CAP also means Change All Plans)
Looks like they are all out to lunch...
Something in CAP kick off on time? you sir are a dreamer aren't you? :D
How do you access it? I clicked on the icon several times and nothing comes up
I'm not getting anything either.
Just sent a text to my Wing CC to remind them to turn it on...
Everytime I click on the icon, I get the schedule
Quote from: Al Sayre on February 26, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Looks like they are all out to lunch...
Cruel but true. ::)
I thought it started at 1:00 so I have had the page open for a while. I heard some talking around 12:45, but now all I see is an out of focus ball of light on the screen.
8) Blinded by the light... ;D
Would you post the link you used for the NB meeting?
Quote from: disamuel on February 26, 2010, 06:44:50 PMQuote from: disamuel on February 26, 2010, 06:44:50 PM
I thought it started at 1:00 so I have had the page open for a while. I heard some talking around 12:45, but now all I see is an out of focus ball of light on the screen.
I cant even get that. What am I doing wrong?
wow this is a failboat if i have ever seen one..... sometimes the ball o light is their...sometimes its not.... i don't know just keep clicking refresh is what i did to see the ball of light
I followed the link from the email and on the "ad" on the website and can't get to anything to stream. Anyone have the address they can post?
It streams in the lower left corner of the screen. (That is when it's streaming...)
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/live/index.cfm (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/live/index.cfm)
Houston I think we have a problem!
Wow. and I stayed at home for this?
If it were a green ball, one may confuse it with the Loc-Nar from the epic musical Heavy Metal. >:D
Par for the course...if/when they get it working, they'll either take a break or go into closed session!
Well, again, many of us have jobs that we must do and are taking a risk to try and see what goes on inthe big world of CAP.
QuoteWe apologize. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. We hope to have the live stream on-line shortly.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Wow.....they only had months to prepare. They even had yesterday and this morning to test it out.
Thats very true. Its called rehearsal. Pre planning whatever term you choose. PCI's/PCC's werent done.
Testing is NEVER a guarantee of success.
"We apologize. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. We hope to have the live stream on-line shortly."
I have what appears to be a PPT slide on Cyber Patriot with narration from what sounds like a cartoon chipmunk with a bad stutter.
I'm getting something. I see a cyber-patriot slide and real weird audio.
Now slides about professional development. Still poor audio.
Renovation slides narrated by a chipmonk
Sounds like Alvin
You gotta be kiddin me. I'm going back to work.
Maybe the audio is coming from "Ray" in Florida?
Oh boy now we're gwtting something that sounds like SSB, hams will love it!
OMG The Chipmunks joined CAP! :P
QuoteTesting. Testing. One, two, three
In a normal voice...
(http://www.incountry.us/captalk/nb1002.jpg)
Only 15 more minutes!
Do I have time to run to the lobby and get a soft prezzle with cheese? I don't want to miss any of the previews, either! Ooooo, I think I have to pee too... Nuts!
Audio just came up for a few seconds....sounded like it was in a cave!
awful long break.
Up and running, good quality video. Sound decent, but some interference.
Chaplain Corps report -- Providing abouty 900 cases of direct support to military each year. Problem is that most of it hasn't been done in accordance with the proper procedures to do them as AFAMs.
Really seem to be going full speed revising publications.
As usual, they present a lot of good statistics.
Interesting slogan - Always Vigilant for the Glory of God
beat me to it river :)
Audio is terrible, text sent...
say uniforms and they cut the audio
You'd think they'd have someone monitoring the feed over a regular connection...
New marketing plan is being worked on..... Are we ready for another new slogan and new symbol?
um...did anyone else lose the signal?
I'm down too.
Synch is off, waiting for someone to point and scream "Godzilla!"...
Have had to hit refresh a few times to get it "unstuck".
They built a hickey-doo into the feed that basically listens for words like "uniform" or "new air force mission" and cuts the feed temporarily..
Quote from: SarDragon on February 26, 2010, 07:19:41 PM
Testing is NEVER a guarantee of success.
"There's no test like production!"
- Shawn Stanford (whilst we were creating CadetStuff)
Lost the feed completely
This is why I don't waste my time trying to watch the feed and instead just come here for a re-cap.
They're talking about the uniform board right now- whether or not to approve the new process.
What truly amazes me is that you all act like this Winter Board feed is any different from any others. They have all had severe problems. Why should we expect different??
Interesting... either they're having technical difficulties, or they're cutting the live feed when they vote.
When it was cut they were about to vote on a motion to postpone the uniform board discussion until tomorrow morning.
Feed always seems to cut out when ever they say uniforms I'm waiting for the DVD to be available at blockbuster to see how it ends.
Sounds like they're attempting to address the issue; I'm hearing crystal-clear audio on the feed now, of a guy saying "testing, testing, testing".
;D
So since i lost the feed for long periods of time i cant put it all together so a little help...
Today we got the briefings (same ones we heard last board basically?) then a break....then almost a uniform discusion but then time was up?
Maybe I have the wrong link, Can someone post the correct link? Tried the Icon yesterday and zilch. .
It's on now.
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/live/index.cfm
LOL
What comedy club will Gen Courter be apearing at next?
She's good. I'm glad the board's morale is up like this.
It seems that NHQ will now be providing a report to the NB at each meeting about any regulations that need updating due to changes made by ICL or other regulations and especially with anything wrong with the 6 oldest regs.
Did they postpone the uniform stuff (items 3.XXX)?
4e approved -- electronic records suffice even if an old reg says its supposed to be paper.
All of the agenda items 5a,b,e,f,h,i referred to the Governance Committee. Bylaws and public trust committees will be involved. According to their report, they're looking at a comprehensive reform package.
I got cut out during a great discussion
I lost audio during the discussion of membership action over arrests.
As if they think someone's going to abide by this...
5c referred to Legal and adverse action committees.
This reminds me of a session of congress.
5d - requiring re-fingerprinting of NEC members.
What is the point of this ? We've already confirmed that they are who they are. Why not just run a new background check? What is the need for new fingerprints? We don't send new cards in for CD re-screening.
Amended to apply to all corporate officers and passed.
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 04:55:23 PM
This reminds me of a session of congress.
They are doing a lot "my learned colleague" and "the dignguished gentlemen". I don't recall that much of this sort of thing at prior meetings. Guess they've been watching a lot of C-SPAN lately.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 27, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 04:55:23 PM
This reminds me of a session of congress.
They are doing a lot "my learned colleague" and "the dignguished gentlemen". I don't recall that much of this sort of thing at prior meetings. Guess they've been watching a lot of C-SPAN lately.
Its also the whole thing about getting a vote to pass then a second, then all in favor of. amendmants. I guess I am used to command desicions. But I have never seen thislevel of CAP before so its new to me. I thought we had commanders that just made command desicions. Didnt realize yyou had call for a vote, get a second then vote. Very interesting.
^^^ Think of us as a corporation with board of Directors instead...
So they are up to page 39 of 117 pages.
Quote from: vento on February 27, 2010, 05:11:14 PM
^^^ Think of us as a corporation with board of Directors instead...
Yeah, I guess, but thats not really what I wanted to join. Never really cared for corporate America. ho hum. But it is what it is.
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 05:08:51 PMIts also the whole thing about getting a vote to pass then a second, then all in favor of. amendmants. I guess I am used to command desicions. But I have never seen thislevel of CAP before so its new to me. I thought we had commanders that just made command desicions. Didnt realize yyou had call for a vote, get a second then vote. Very interesting.
Interesting factoid: the only place we teach this kind of leadership in CAP is in the cadet program, specifically the Cadet Advisory Council.
5j SAV closeout. Approved.
Now on to uniform stuff....
What the heck are they talking about? Where is this stuff on the agenda?
There will be an official uniform committee set up.
2 year moratorium on major uniform changes PASSED!
Quote from: RiverAux on February 27, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
There will be an official uniform committee set up.
2 year moratorium on major uniform changes PASSED!
I would have like 5 years...but I will accept this as a start. Female member added to the uniform committee.
Apparently National Commander now has total say over uniform approvals....
A motion to consolidate CAP service Dress Unifrom is being discussed. I will take this one and post its chatter here. A consolidated professional uniform is needed (as opposed to suit to avoid "MALL SECURITY" effect.) An incident was discussed during the 1993 Missouri Floods that showed that a uniformed CAP presence was effective.
Postponement of the phase out date, with a motion to reffer to the committee. This was referred to the Committee on Uniforms set up bay a previous motion. Also agenda items one uniforms are referred to the created committee.
3B - item deleted.
3C -- making 1 single service dress uniform for all CAP members.
Referred to the new uniform committee along with the other uniform items (3d,e,f,g)
Announced: CAP Hawaii Wing Activated to warn of Tsunami as a result fo the Chile Earthquake. Then lost the feed...
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 07:15:47 PM
Announced: CAP Hawaii Wing Activated to warn of Tsunami as a result fo the Chile Earthquake.
WTG HIWG! :clap: :clap: :clap: They have speakers on the aircraft and are flying the coastline warning the public since there are no fixed PA systems on much of the coastline. I've never heard of our aircraft being used in such a way before.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 07:18:53 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 07:15:47 PM
Announced: CAP Hawaii Wing Activated to warn of Tsunami as a result fo the Chile Earthquake.
WTG HIWG! :clap: :clap: :clap: They have speakers on the aircraft and are flying the coastline warning the public since there are no fixed PA systems on much of the coastline. I've never heard of our aircraft being used in such a way before.
I first learned of that watching a documentary on the History Channel some years back.
Quote from: Ned on February 27, 2010, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 05:08:51 PMIts also the whole thing about getting a vote to pass then a second, then all in favor of. amendmants. I guess I am used to command desicions. But I have never seen thislevel of CAP before so its new to me. I thought we had commanders that just made command desicions. Didnt realize yyou had call for a vote, get a second then vote. Very interesting.
Interesting factoid: the only place we teach this kind of leadership in CAP is in the cadet program, specifically the Cadet Advisory Council.
Again. I am new to stepping outside of the cadet program, so please bare with me. But at my squadron, we run it in a military style at the senior member level as well. But then again, 90% of our sm's are prior service.
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 07:22:14 PM
Again. I am new to stepping outside of the cadet program, so please bare with me. But at my squadron, we run it in a military style at the senior member level as well. But then again, 90% of our sm's are prior service.
CAP is, it would seem, not run in an uniform homogenous manner across the nation and even from squadron to squadron. It has its draw backs...differing focus points, differing staffing needs...and its benefits...as in a unit had to adapt to "the cards it is dealt" and the "community it serves."
E-mail notifications on one line safety forms (78 and 79s) is not reaching out to all commands. They recommend a culture of passing information be created in the various Wings to insure that these matters are properly communicated despite the procedures not being present in the regulations.
In form the NOC of major mishap accidents to insure that they have the information for Public Affairs and Letigation issues.
A discussion of "an old candy commercial" was used to describe how the FORM 78 and 79 forms should be used together. More people should be familiar with the process.
Vehicle inspections area have been noticed. Tires are failing due to "dry rot." Old tires on shelves cause these mishaps causing the usual life of the time to be different from that Tire inspections are to be added to the focus.
15 Passenger vans are not to be over loaded or inproperly loaded. The last row of seats are to be removed and and nothing is to be in its space.
CAP Safety culture is reactive, despite all attempts to the contrary. Constant safety concentrations may cause some "tone deafness" to the constant call for safety (like a lifeguard's wistle being ignored for its constant blair)
Can safety be stressed without saying the word safety? A culture of safety is more important a thing to develop. Safety is improved with aholistic view point. A safety management system (SMS) is to be deployed
An SMS for CAP is not mandatory, but makes sense.
CAP operates comprarable numbers of aircraft to major air carrier fleets. SMS will allow senior leadership actionable data. (heh...heee...he said "CAP-YOU-SAFF")
Safety programs have to advance in a two pronged effort 1) analysis of past mishaps, and 2) mitigation of possible mishaps. Safety is not about safety, but about good training and a culture of safe practices.
Safety Briefing concludes to applause... Maj Gen Courter thanks the safety team (heh...heee...she said "CAP-YOU-SAFF")
Invoking the Brady Bunch.... Interesting. :)
so where does the gear go?
Quote from: cap235629 on February 27, 2010, 07:33:27 PM
so where does the gear go?
I was thinking the same thing. In the seating area would seem to be a safety issue as well.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 07:35:58 PM
Quote from: cap235629 on February 27, 2010, 07:33:27 PM
so where does the gear go?
I was thinking the same thing. In the seating area would seem to be a safety issue as well.
Good, you can use the gear when the van flips over.
COl Glenn Atwell, is a life member and is recognized (he's sitting next to Genenal Anderson.)
Item 6 alpha, AE mission awards process...A discrepency exists in the process. Effective immediately that the top Wing in each regions and highest scoring wings be recognized based on the reports. This will help to honor the highest scores.
How many awards will be given. Currently one Wing will score the highest, the top three highest Wings got the second plaque. The New Process recognizes the "numerically" higher score. There could be 11 awards to 52 Wings.
so if we watched this can we count it as a quarterly safety briefing?
Cadet Unit Award. The Squadron of Merit and Squadron of Distintion awards leaves many squadrons in the shadowed by those that always seem to win. The process currently is rather subjective.
Quality Cadet Unit Award...these are objective criteria. It is an incentive to work toward based on making certain criteria. A long list of the criteria was made based on some already existing items.
This was to replace Squadron of Merit and Squadron of Distintion, but this was withdrawn. It will come with a banner/streamer.
Some discussion of it as a supplemental award...more discussion on the matter and paramenters, perhaps in committee. The banner/streamer, may cause an expense. That too needs to be addressed.
An amendment is been proposed to see if a unifom items could be developed for wear on a uniform. This is going to the committeee for a possible ribbon. This is a change that the higher awards (Squadron of Merit and Squadron of Distintion) does not get a ribbon. It could be a meaningless ribbon.
A motion (on amendment) to send to committee for new ribbon...(waiting)...FAILED
The idea is sound, however, more study is needed...an amendment is made to strike the criteria and approve the concept for this award. Then sent to committee for the next body to vote on the criteria. The motion was seconded to approve the idea with the criteria to be voted on next meeting.
An issue was brought up about 25 cadets per unit...this will go to committee. The Cadet advisor was consulted...agrees there needs to be more study. Thsi si not to undermind achievements. ("You two speak with one voice", said Major General Couter)
Mission Carries.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 07:38:21 PM
Good, you can use the gear when the van flips over.
The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?". Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".
Quality Cadet Unit award....an extension of "everybody gets a trophy" in Little League. ::)
I love how the NCAC Chair and Vice Chair finish each other's sentences...what a cute couple! ;D
Quote from: Mustang on February 27, 2010, 07:59:19 PM
Quality Cadet Unit award....an extension of "everybody gets a trophy" in Little League. ::)
I disagree. This would not be a competition, but rather a true acknowledgement of achievements. I mean, if a Unit begins as a cadet flight in January and works to become a cadet squadron by December, that is worth getting this sort of award. I will agree that the critieria will have to be finely established to avaoid the situation you describe.
Quote from: Mustang on February 27, 2010, 07:59:19 PM
I love how the NCAC Chair and Vice Chair finish each other's sentences...what a cute couple! ;D
Now, if only CAPTALKERs could be that well insync.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?". Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".
The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity. Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance." This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively. And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?". Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".
The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity. Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance." This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively. And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.
"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there.
I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear. Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.
I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 08:08:44 PM
"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there.
I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear. Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.
I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.
A letigimate question. However, a CAP Convoy would be the better answer. I wonder at which speeds that can occur... experience the most trouble. I normally drive the CAP van like someone's elderly grandparent, overly cautious.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 08:10:24 PM
I normally drive the CAP van like someone's elderly grandparent, overly cautious.
I'm that way with the Wing Comm Trailer - mostly because of the way it makes my Jeep handle. Not badly, just... Differently. Requires a lot more concentration than normal driving.
But we digress.
(They are on a break at the WB at the moment...)
Any news on the proposed changes to CAPR 60-1 (Agenda Item 7c, grounding CAP Pilots at age 80, and "O" Pilots at 70)?
And were back...
Limited OPSEC WAIVER- Currently OPSEC is required to all members. The motion excludes other members patrons, cadet sponsors, congressional and legilstive members. Are there members in Legislative Squadrons that are active in OPS? the answer seems to be yes, they are, to some degree, already screened.
Col Smith, of Texas, wants clairity on who the members are. Ms Parker indicates that Cadet Sponsors need Level 1. There is an amendment to exclude Cadet Sponsors as they need Level 1.
Motion Carried.
Legislative people is an issue as in the State Level. Moved to Amend that the National Staff amend o have fexibility.
Motion Carried.
Discussion...none...MOTION CARRIED
Quote from: don736 on February 27, 2010, 08:31:40 PM
Any news on the proposed changes to CAPR 60-1 (Agenda Item 7c, grounding CAP Pilots at age 80, and "O" Pilots at 70)?
On 7a now. I'm wondering where 4, 5, and 6 went. :)
The idea is raised in creating a Single Form from IT, similar to a CAPF 101, that lists all e-services. Motion Carried.
STAN EVAL changes... policy review via conferences. Premit USAF funds to be used by Wing to provide training to privates. Training for Wing Commanders on how to best use STANEVAL. More criteria for O-FLIGHTS STAN EVAL Courses at intervals instead of just once.
New Agenda Item is inserted as be Motion.
Aerospace Education Officer of the year is discussed. Accept nominations for the naming of this award. General Gene M Holm(sp) is suggested. Discussion...none...motion carried. Will be run by the family for approval.
Revision of CAP R 35-7...moved to governance commitee. Agenda 8 bravo to be removed, but will instead go to committee.
Cadet Advisiory term limits...
Info on Mishaps to Pilots...tabled.
Conduct of members using Social Media (hint: myspace, facebook and captalk) A committee will be appointed with a chair. Major Pabon will lead the committee. This is a complex issue being worked though it, there are a number of legal issues and the like. This will be given at the Summer National Board.
Ribbon for referred to Committee. Motion to Reconsidered. Is an Award a uniform issue? The ribbon goes to the Uniform committee.
Membership Applications...an issue existe en re how fingerprint card will be doen with law enforcement involvment.
ID cards for CAP Members. Col Jensen wanted all members to have a photo id card. It is in two parts 1) Can we have a photo id, 2) how about govenrment ID cards.
The proposal is, after looking at costs, that each senior member gets a photo id card every year if that member wants another one they can buy it. The membership dues will entitle them to one card. Cadets will not get an ID Card. At 18 cadets can upgrade.
There is a possible phase in date of the end of 2011. The agenda item will be written an posted and acted on the the NEC meeting.
Questions...two issues, 1) Will everyone get a digital photo and will it be 2)verified by the Wing Commander. There will be a booth at Pacific Region, for example, to photo everyone.
The Intent is to ask the USAF for a staff member to get a photo ID Card. Is there an estimate on cost. it will be a little more expensive, however, per year national prints 85 to 90 thousand cards. With everone getting only one card, will lessen the load. It should, then, Break even.
Col Jensen...will require that all members have a photo in e-services. It is a good practice to have this alread. It should work with a long phase in time.
Why do this if the US government does not accept it. The focus should be to get a govenrment ID card that would allow entry.
Money shoudl be save in that the card will not include the unit. We might be able to go to HLS and have it to where they can help us at TSA check points. The CAP Photo ID can be used at GA airport check points.
Wing Commanders do not approve Photo ids, it is the Unit Commander. Unit Commander may need more training.
What happens when a person gets promoted? The can get another one or keep the old one until the year ends. Photos are to be updated every 5 years.
The ID can be addressed at the individual Military Installations commander's will.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 08:43:49 PM
Aerospace Education Officer of the year is discussed. Accept nominations for the naming of this award. General Gene M Holm(sp) is suggested. Discussion...none...motion carried. Will be run by the family for approval.
Wish they would stick with the original reccomendation, naming the award after LTC Zumwalt.
Cadet Advisory Term Limits...
Meetings would be improved by teleportation.
The Proposed agenda items was to remove CAC term limits, they like the terms as they are. The wording could be changed to allow 2 years in each positon. This will generate experience and continuity. (losing feed)
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:09:39 PM
Cadet Advisory Term Limits...
Meetings would be improved by teleportation.
There are a whole ton of things that would be improved by teleportation, but I doubt meetings are one of them, unless you can teleport me out of said meeting...
QuoteThe Proposed agenda items was to remove CAC term limits, they like the terms as they are. The wording could be changed to allow 2 years in each positon. This will generate experience and continuity. (losing feed)
And creating a stagnation effect. How long is your average cadet in the CAP cadet program? 4 years? 5? If you "crank the rank," you can complete the program in 32-34 months, but figure that in the "real word" it takes most cadets 2-ish years to get to the Mitchell, and thence onward to phase III & IV... So 2 years at "each position" in the CAC seems excessive, and does not allow cadets to "move up."
Think about what would happen if your cadet commander stayed in the same position for 2 years. The cadets below are limited in their ability to "move up."
I think the concept is a bad idea altogether.
(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College. NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.
While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted. The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade. National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.
Motion Carried.
NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity. A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded. A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP. Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform. They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire. Motion Carried.
Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc. Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.
Does this include appointments to the National Staff? That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee. For transparency.
Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance. It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level. Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals. Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.
Item goes to vote...Motion Fails
Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly. Discussion? Approved by aclaimation.
New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood. An English Museum has required unit patches. The Wing Commanders will present these awards. There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.
I'm in the middle of teaching a UCC - can I put in my early request for a 1-page coherent summary once this is over?
Quote from: Eclipse on February 27, 2010, 10:17:58 PM
I'm in the middle of teaching a UCC - can I put in my early request for a 1-page coherent summary once this is over?
You may put in anything you'd like. I was typing it as it happened, sorry if it was not "coherent" enough for you.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College. NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.
While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted. The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade. National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.
Motion Carried.
NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity. A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded. A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP. Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform. They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire. Motion Carried.
Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc. Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.
Does this include appointments to the National Staff? That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee. For transparency.
Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance. It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level. Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals. Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.
Item goes to vote...Motion Fails
Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly. Discussion? Approved by aclaimation.
New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood. An English Museum has required unit patches. The Wing Commanders will present these awards. There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.
Life membership was to Lt. Gen. Charles Searock, USAF (Ret.) outgoing BOG member and long time CAP member/supporter
NEC made this call a couple of years ago after receiving a safety briefing with VERY compelling data rearding the CG & high rollover risk of a 15 pax van with the rearmost seat occupied. It was known that the decision would be unpopular, but the safety data presented was really compelling.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 08:08:44 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 27, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
The question was, in effect, "How should gear be properly transported?". Not, "Should we disregard the policy?".
The fact remains that the back area of the van is to remain empty to improve the center of gravity. Not too far a concept from an aircraft "weight and balance." This does, however, call into question the reason for even having 15 passenger vans that only old 11 or so effectively. And there, is I think, the real angnst y'all should be calling into question.
"'Cause we already own them" is the likely answer there.
I suppose that if you do take 11 people to a bivouac, mission, or other activity that requires gear, you will now pretty much need another vehicle (POV, presumably) just for gear. Perhaps that should be feedback sent back upstairs - seems to defeat the purpose.
I wonder (and no, I haven't looked) if it's against the regs to load unused seating in the rear of the van with gear when transporting, say, 5 people.
Quote from: JCJ on February 27, 2010, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
(Missed discussion due to lost feed) NCO at National Staff College. NCOs, such as CMSgt, may know their branch well, however, may not know much about CAP operations and culture.
While we have accepted an NCO and "enlisted" corps, how are they to be promoted. The focus, it is pointed out, is on training as opposed to pinning on grade. National Staff college slots are in question for these NCOs.
Motion Carried.
NEW BUSINESS:
Diversity in Civil Air Patrol- adopt a Resolution on diversity. A committee on diversity is proposed. Motion seconded. A consideration was made by Col Hayden, for the wearing of beards and turbans in CAP. Ms Parker notes there is nothing that prohibits the wear of USAF Style uniform. They would have to request to wear distinctice uniforms with accommodation to religious attire. Motion Carried.
Move to have the Committee on Public Trust develop national team and committee- Terms of appointment, notification of vacancies etc. Giving people the opportunities to serve on these committees.
Does this include appointments to the National Staff? That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee. For transparency.
Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance. It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
Keep National Team members at their level instead of elevated to National Level. Wing Commander and Region Commander have some degree of approvals. Bring subject matter specialists on to work areas and then dismiss them from the team.
Item goes to vote...Motion Fails
Major General Courter and General Chitwood surrender the gavel to move ... Life membership for Lt Gen. Charles C Rock who has served CAP greatly. Discussion? Approved by aclaimation.
New Business...bring Forward Brig Gen Chitwood. An English Museum has required unit patches. The Wing Commanders will present these awards. There is a WWII CAP Coastal Patrol aircraft in their collection.
Life membership was to Lt. Gen. Charles Searock, USAF (Ret.) outgoing BOG member and long time CAP member/supporter
Ooops...that is what happens when you are just typing in a "shorthand" fashion. I tried to be as accurate as possible, however, I am not always perfect. There was little time to correct things as I would have liked. I was only trying to present the information to those that had back reception with the feed.
I was hoping other listeners would help correct such.
Here are the thoughts on the ID card thing:
- As a professional organization, we should have a photo ID of some kind
- Also as a professional organization, we should be able to get a digital photograph of every active member in e-services. Especially since digital photography is a core competency of our organization. This is also very helpful in confirming the identity & status of members who are not based locally at major incidents & events.
- If we cut out the duplicates, etc we can issue the current photo ID instead of the "library card" to all members as a basic membership benefit for about the same budget (if you lose your card, you have to buy a replacement, no card re-issue for unit transfers, etc.) Of course, this depends on requiring a photo in e-services (where the ID card photo comes from). Currently we issue about 90,000 cards per year for 59,000 members. We can fund the photo ID's at about the same budget if we get rid of the extra card issues, which are usually due to unit transfers or lost cards - which we currently replace free).
- Everyone understands that the current photo ID is not a government ID. For this action, we are only trying to get the membership a reasonably professional appearing photo ID (the current one).
- Base access is a separate issue. Our access to military facilities is always at the discretion of the installation commander regardless of what kind of ID we have. With that said, my CAP photo ID gets me on board all of the several miliary bases I go to on a regular basis. This is becasue of the need for access, good relationship wih the base and continued good conduct of the local CAP units on the base and in the community, and not becasue of the type of ID I carry.
- There is also (as a separate issue) still a great deal of effort in progress to secure us a government issued ID which meets the latest standards. However this is a much more complicated issue for many reasons and won't be solved quickly.
-
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 08:43:49 PM
STAN EVAL changes... policy review via conferences. Premit USAF funds to be used by Wing to provide training to privates. Training for Wing Commanders on how to best use STANEVAL. More criteria for O-FLIGHTS STAN EVAL Courses at intervals instead of just once.
New Agenda Item is inserted as be Motion.
Aerospace Education Officer of the year is discussed. Accept nominations for the naming of this award. General Gene M Holm(sp) is suggested. Discussion...none...motion carried. Will be run by the family for approval.
Revision of CAP R 35-7...moved to governance commitee. Agenda 8 bravo to be removed, but will instead go to committee.
Cadet Advisiory term limits...
Info on Mishaps to Pilots...tabled.
Conduct of members using Social Media (hint: myspace, facebook and captalk) A committee will be appointed with a chair. Major Pabon will lead the committee. This is a complex issue being worked though it, there are a number of legal issues and the like. This will be given at the Summer National Board.
Ribbon for referred to Committee. Motion to Reconsidered. Is an Award a uniform issue? The ribbon goes to the Uniform committee.
Membership Applications...an issue existe en re how fingerprint card will be doen with law enforcement involvment.
ID cards for CAP Members. Col Jensen wanted all members to have a photo id card. It is in two parts 1) Can we have a photo id, 2) how about govenrment ID cards.
The proposal is, after looking at costs, that each senior member gets a photo id card every year if that member wants another one they can buy it. The membership dues will entitle them to one card. Cadets will not get an ID Card. At 18 cadets can upgrade.
There is a possible phase in date of the end of 2011. The agenda item will be written an posted and acted on the the NEC meeting.
Questions...two issues, 1) Will everyone get a digital photo and will it be 2)verified by the Wing Commander. There will be a booth at Pacific Region, for example, to photo everyone.
The Intent is to ask the USAF for a staff member to get a photo ID Card. Is there an estimate on cost. it will be a little more expensive, however, per year national prints 85 to 90 thousand cards. With everone getting only one card, will lessen the load. It should, then, Break even.
Col Jensen...will require that all members have a photo in e-services. It is a good practice to have this alread. It should work with a long phase in time.
Why do this if the US government does not accept it. The focus should be to get a govenrment ID card that would allow entry.
Money shoudl be save in that the card will not include the unit. We might be able to go to HLS and have it to where they can help us at TSA check points. The CAP Photo ID can be used at GA airport check points.
Wing Commanders do not approve Photo ids, it is the Unit Commander. Unit Commander may need more training.
What happens when a person gets promoted? The can get another one or keep the old one until the year ends. Photos are to be updated every 5 years.
The ID can be addressed at the individual Military Installations commander's will.
Thanks for the updates, Maj Carrelas.
Why name the Aerospace Officer of the Year Award after MajGen Jeannie Holm? She was never a member of CAP and as far as I know never had any contact with the organization. I'm tired of CAP naming awards after people who never had a connection to CAP, as it stands now only Curry, Spaatz, Wilson, and Feik had any affiliation with the organization.
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on February 27, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 04:55:23 PM
This reminds me of a session of congress.
They are doing a lot "my learned colleague" and "the dignguished gentlemen". I don't recall that much of this sort of thing at prior meetings. Guess they've been watching a lot of C-SPAN lately.
Its also the whole thing about getting a vote to pass then a second, then all in favor of. amendmants. I guess I am used to command desicions. But I have never seen thislevel of CAP before so its new to me. I thought we had commanders that just made command desicions. Didnt realize yyou had call for a vote, get a second then vote. Very interesting.
This is a basic corporate business meeting, complete with "Robert's Rules of Order."
Quote from: SarDragon on February 28, 2010, 05:11:22 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on February 27, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on February 27, 2010, 04:55:23 PM
This reminds me of a session of congress.
They are doing a lot "my learned colleague" and "the dignguished gentlemen". I don't recall that much of this sort of thing at prior meetings. Guess they've been watching a lot of C-SPAN lately.
Its also the whole thing about getting a vote to pass then a second, then all in favor of. amendmants. I guess I am used to command desicions. But I have never seen thislevel of CAP before so its new to me. I thought we had commanders that just made command desicions. Didnt realize yyou had call for a vote, get a second then vote. Very interesting.
This is a basic corporate business meeting, complete with "Robert's Rules of Order."
Now, those that start pointing fingers at the National Commanders for alledged "dogmatism" and "dictatorship," how can that claim be made in "good faith" knowing that not much can be done without the National Board and NEC and BOG?
I will be quick to point that out when the next "conspiracy" theory comes around about how the National Commander is pushing a personal agenda. No one person is ever to blame for policy desicions.
Quote from: Cecil DP on February 28, 2010, 04:33:59 AM
Why name the Aerospace Officer of the Year Award after MajGen Jeannie Holm? She was never a member of CAP and as far as I know never had any contact with the organization. I'm tired of CAP naming awards after people who never had a connection to CAP, as it stands now only Curry, Spaatz, Wilson, and Feik had any affiliation with the organization.
The question was sent to a committee appointed by the National AE Advisor Co. Mike Murrell (now the national senior advisor for operations). This was the recommendation brought forward. Maj. Gen. Holm, who incidentally passed away recently, was a pioneer in aerospace education and professional officer development in the USAF. The National Board received a very impressive presentation regarding Maj. Gen. Holm's life and accomplishments during the board meeting.
Quote from: JCJ on February 28, 2010, 05:16:15 AM
Quote from: Cecil DP on February 28, 2010, 04:33:59 AM
Why name the Aerospace Officer of the Year Award after MajGen Jeannie Holm? She was never a member of CAP and as far as I know never had any contact with the organization. I'm tired of CAP naming awards after people who never had a connection to CAP, as it stands now only Curry, Spaatz, Wilson, and Feik had any affiliation with the organization.
The question was sent to a committee appointed by the National AE Advisor Co. Mike Murrell (now the national senior advisor for operations). This was the recommendation brought forward. Maj. Gen. Holm, who incidentally passed away recently, was a pioneer in aerospace education and professional officer development in the USAF. The National Board received a very impressive presentation regarding Maj. Gen. Holm's life and accomplishments during the board meeting.
I do know she was the first woman to make General Officer, but again that's what she did in the AF. What did she do for CAP? She was not a member. Let's name CAP awards after outstanding CAP members.
Quote from: Cecil DP on February 28, 2010, 06:05:47 AM
Quote from: JCJ on February 28, 2010, 05:16:15 AM
Quote from: Cecil DP on February 28, 2010, 04:33:59 AM
Why name the Aerospace Officer of the Year Award after MajGen Jeannie Holm? She was never a member of CAP and as far as I know never had any contact with the organization. I'm tired of CAP naming awards after people who never had a connection to CAP, as it stands now only Curry, Spaatz, Wilson, and Feik had any affiliation with the organization.
The question was sent to a committee appointed by the National AE Advisor Co. Mike Murrell (now the national senior advisor for operations). This was the recommendation brought forward. Maj. Gen. Holm, who incidentally passed away recently, was a pioneer in aerospace education and professional officer development in the USAF. The National Board received a very impressive presentation regarding Maj. Gen. Holm's life and accomplishments during the board meeting.
I do know she was the first woman to make General Officer, but again that's what she did in the AF. What did she do for CAP? She was not a member. Let's name CAP awards after outstanding CAP members.
LTC Zumwalt, according the the recommendation, was also a pioneer in aerospace education. I think a good job for our historians would to start looking into the contributions of past individual members like LTC Zumwalt.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 27, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
It seems that NHQ will now be providing a report to the NB at each meeting about any regulations that need updating due to changes made by ICL or other regulations and especially with anything wrong with the 6 oldest regs.
Frankly what they need to do is tell CAP's Executive Director what they expect of the paid organization as far as "processing time" goals for any regulation changes. I would think that most of this could be done in 30 days, maybe the max 45 days after a policy decision is made by the various boards. Am I missing something here?
RM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 07:09:20 PM
A motion to consolidate CAP service Dress Unifrom is being discussed. I will take this one and post its chatter here. A consolidated professional uniform is needed (as opposed to suit to avoid "MALL SECURITY" effect.)
Frankly the civilian suit with CAP badge/name tag, tie, etc is fine and offers resonable identification. Even while in the AF while at OHara airport changing planes, we were mistaken for airport employees (we were wearing the AF class B (short sleeve blue shirt, blue pants and jacket with rank).
I think most members aren't intersted in spending more money on uniforms at this point in the economy. Way too much time is spent in this organization on uniforms >:(
RM
They weren't explictly talking about turning ICLs into regs. The situation they were talking about checking every now and again to make sure that an ICL or revision of one regulation didn't require changes to other regulations as well.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
Does this include appointments to the National Staff? That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee. For transparency.
Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance. It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
The National Commander always has the right to pick their staff, as any other commander at the subordinate levels (except for the vice commander).
However, since National Level "governance" is corporate, there are some differences; the National Board must elect the vice commander and, "confirm" the CS, NFO, NLO, NC, IG and Chap. I don't think that will ever change.
The new uniform board, as I understand it, will be selected by the region commanders and national commander. Uniform recommendations will be approved by the commander. This, believe it or not, is a delegation of authority from the National Board to the National Commander. It was also a great compromise between the two major factions on the board. I congratulate the National Board on coming together and making a very tough decision.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
E-mail notifications on one line safety forms (78 and 79s) is not reaching out to all commands. They recommend a culture of passing information be created in the various Wings to insure that these matters are properly communicated despite the procedures not being present in the regulations.
CAP Safety culture is reactive, despite all attempts to the contrary. Constant safety concentrations may cause some "tone deafness" to the constant call for safety (like a lifeguard's wistle being ignored for its constant blair)
Can safety be stressed without saying the word safety? A culture of safety is more important a thing to develop. Safety is improved with aholistic view point. A safety management system (SMS) is to be deployed
An SMS for CAP is not mandatory, but makes sense.
Safety programs have to advance in a two pronged effort 1) analysis of past mishaps, and 2) mitigation of possible mishaps. Safety is not about safety, but about good training and a culture of safe practices.
I must be missing something on this also. For many years CAP has gotten accident reports filed and upchanneled. In the past haven't they (CAP National hq officials) read them and performed an analysis of the types of accidents and possible ways to mitigate :-\
My fear is that this entire safety program is really going to take CAP from an operational mission orientated unit to the term "Swivel Chair Patrol". Members are going to be unwilling to take any operational risks because of the ramifications associated with even the slightest chance of an accident while performing the ORM. It basically has the potential of becoming a paper tiger jungle of CYA by everyone :-[
Of course now we have a full time paid employee at National, and I'm sure that there will be a lot of "innovations" to keep us busy down at the local volunteer level. :angel:
Also as far as reporting goes, members will comply with what the regulation says. Why would anyone expect more reporting if it isn't required 8)
RM
Quote from: Cecil DP on February 28, 2010, 04:33:59 AM
Why name the Aerospace Officer of the Year Award after MajGen Jeannie Holm? She was never a member of CAP and as far as I know never had any contact with the organization. I'm tired of CAP naming awards after people who never had a connection to CAP, as it stands now only Curry, Spaatz, Wilson, and Feik had any affiliation with the organization.
I kinda agree but not for the same reason. why name an aerospace award after someone who was not a pilot or in the aerospace field?
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day. Plus what extra paid staff would be required?
Seems like this is not a thoughtout photo ID card plan.
Several years ago CAP had a photo ID card, and annually a renewal sticker was put on the back of the card. This ends the annual renewal of the photo ID card replacing it with a semi-permrenant card with the annual renewal sticker
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day. Plus what extra paid staff would be required?
If you're typing them on a Selectric, yes. If you use real, business-class equipment or services, you could probably do them all in a week or less. How many do you think the DoD makes in a single day? Most off the shelf ID card systems can make one or more a minute - that's about 500 in a business day.
Also, most members are renewing a year at a time, anyway, so its just this machine instead of that.
Quote from: FW on February 28, 2010, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
The National Commander always has the right to pick their staff, as any other commander at the subordinate levels (except for the vice commander).
However, since National Level "governance" is corporate, there are some differences; the National Board must elect the vice commander and, "confirm" the CS, NFO, NLO, NC, IG and Chap. I don't think that will ever change.
I've noted in the agenda working minutes that there's comments made by the the Commander CAP-USAF, regarding commander's being able to pick their staffs as opposed to (what I would assume) is election of the staff and than discusses the military role of command.
To a certain extent I think that the Commander CAP-USAF may need a bit of a reality check in the management/leadership of a truely "volunteer" organization . CIVIL Air Patrol is not the military. IF you have any Commander (and staff members appointed by the commander) that don't seem to be in tune with what the general membership thinks/wants (supports the membership), basically the general membership will just stop participating ("passive resistence")that is the major challenge of working with unpaid volunteers. Unlike the military there's no UCMJ, threats to promotion, or demotion that can change that.
BTW Having met both our new region & wing commanders, I personally think they have the right attitude towards supporting the unpaid "volunteer" membership. Hopefully this is a positive sign of the future thoughout CAP. At least in the Northeast it is!!! :clap:
RM
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.
Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive. Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos? I suspect they will...
The photo ID would replace the current "library card" of which close to 90,000 are sent out per year. I don't know all the details but the NHQ staff who handle our ID cards now is working closely with the volunteer working group who is handling this. As you point out, it will be critical to ensure the feasability of the plan but it looks like it is do-able.
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day. Plus what extra paid staff would be required?
Seems like this is not a thoughtout photo ID card plan.
Several years ago CAP had a photo ID card, and annually a renewal sticker was put on the back of the card. This ends the annual renewal of the photo ID card replacing it with a semi-permrenant card with the annual renewal sticker
Quote from: FW on February 28, 2010, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 27, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
Does this include appointments to the National Staff? That there be guidelines for, for example, the new uniform committee. For transparency.
Some time ago a proposed pamphlet was brought forward...it created resistance. It is hoped it will be available...It is hoped that the National Commander would have the same rigths to pick their staffs as a local commander would.
The National Commander always has the right to pick their staff, as any other commander at the subordinate levels (except for the vice commander).
However, since National Level "governance" is corporate, there are some differences; the National Board must elect the vice commander and, "confirm" the CS, NFO, NLO, NC, IG and Chap. I don't think that will ever change.
The new uniform board, as I understand it, will be selected by the region commanders and national commander. Uniform recommendations will be approved by the commander. This, believe it or not, is a delegation of authority from the National Board to the National Commander. It was also a great compromise between the two major factions on the board. I congratulate the National Board on coming together and making a very tough decision.
The uniform board will have eight wing commanders on it (one from each region selected by the region commander) - there will also be some other members (I can't remember exactly who & I haven't unpacked yet to check my notes). There is also a provision to ensure that there is at least one female member on the board to provide feedback on women's uniform issues.
Quote from: BlackKnight on February 28, 2010, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.
Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive. Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos? I suspect they will...
That's a detail that remains to be worked, but the vision is "if one is going to be an active member, one must have an appropriate digital photograph uploaded into e-services & validated by a commander..."
Quote from: BlackKnight on February 28, 2010, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.
Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive. Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos? I suspect they will...
Auto-000 or Patron members who don't have a photo uploaded by "X". Inactive members have no need for a photo ID anyway.
Want to reactivate? Upload a photo approved by the CC.
Had Color Guard Competition this weekend, just now trying to get caught up.
Thank you Maj. Caralles, and others, who gave tried to put out the information about the NB.
For those that did see it, was them thoughts and feelings of the membership discussed? And what happened to the uniforms? I saw just a couple of comments about them. I would really like to know what CAP-USAF had to say about them having total control over all "military-style" uniforms. And did I understand that the items regarding the restriction of NEC powers went to committee?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I really missed out at CGC and would like to get caught back up.
Thanks
Quote from: JCJ on February 28, 2010, 08:13:14 PM
The uniform board will have eight wing commanders on it (one from each region selected by the region commander) - there will also be some other members (I can't remember exactly who & I haven't unpacked yet to check my notes). There is also a provision to ensure that there is at least one female member on the board to provide feedback on women's uniform issues.
They should put ME on it. I will ruthlessly attack this uniform issue until we have something that is, well, uniform. I once calculated how many CAP vans we could fill with senior members ALONE (since it was for a uniform class at SLS) wearing authorized uniform combinations, each in a different combination. I don't remember the number, but it was disturbing.
Did you ever look at a room full of members in various combinations and think how ridiculous it looks?
Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on February 28, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
And what happened to the uniforms?
All uniform stuff went to committee and there is a two-year moratorium on any MAJOR uniform changes as well.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 28, 2010, 09:40:02 PM
Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on February 28, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
And what happened to the uniforms?
All uniform stuff went to committee and there is a two-year moratorium on any MAJOR uniform changes as well.
I've been calling for this moratorium for years. I'm glad they finally got the idea. It's time to focus on more important things, stop senselessly costing the members money, and stop wasting our money buying back uniform items from Vanguard due to changes.
Quote from: JCJ on February 28, 2010, 05:16:15 AM
The question was sent to a committee appointed by the National AE Advisor Co. Mike Murrell (now the national senior advisor for operations).
Whoa...so Skiba's out? When did that happen??
On the subject of award names and aerospace pioneers, my yardstick is simple: if your contributions to the field don't rate even a footnote in any of our AE texts, you're probably not an aviation pioneer.
I agree that Holm was a poor choice for this award's namesake. Jule Zumwalt's contributions to CAP's AE mission are legendary--that is, if you've been in CAP for more than a few years; which begs the question of just how long some of these wing commanders have been in CAP. For precedent, one need look only to the Cadet Programs Officer of the Year award, now named for Jack Sorenson--a wholly appropriate namesake for that award, given his monumental contributions to the modern cadet program.
^Col. Skiba had enough. He decided to relax a bit and travel around the world with his wife and fly his new Aeronca Champ around Florida. His Last day as Senior Advisor Ops is today.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 28, 2010, 08:28:01 PM
Quote from: BlackKnight on February 28, 2010, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: BillB on February 28, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
One problem with the proposal requiring the CAP photo ID cards. The mothion was for annual renewal and the photo uploaded every five years. Since there are approximately 60,000 members and there are only about 250 business days this means that National will have to do 240 photo ID card per day The math doesn't work It would be impossible to produce much over 100 cards per day.
Hmmm, methinks this might be a great "backdoor" way to get a handle on how many of our ~57,000 members are active vs. inactive. If a senior officer isn't willing to take the time to upload their photo to e-services during the photo ID phase-in period, we can pretty much assume they've gone inactive. Another question: Once the program is established, will NHQ continue to accept membership renewal payments from members who have not provided photos? I suspect they will...
Auto-000 or Patron members who don't have a photo uploaded by "X". Inactive members have no need for a photo ID anyway.
Want to reactivate? Upload a photo approved by the CC.
Of course we can always put in a time line.....New members has 60 days to upload a photo after their membership is accepted by national (assuming we don't require them to provide a passport type photo with their membership applications...which is not a bad idea). For current members....we give them to say Jan 2011 to get their pictures into the system....anyone with out a current picture gets an automatic suspention.....not a patrol status...or a 000 transfer a suspention.
Then we drop them and flag their records.
As we have said if they are not active let's let the computers do the work for use and clean up our membership records.
On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active. Lots of organizations are that way. 20% of the members do 80% of the work. Or they may only like to do something once in a while. I think we need to allow for that. If their dues aren't covering the costs to process their membership and provide them with the magazine, then the dues should be raised. But if the dues are covering these costs, it's extra money for CAP and the local squadron if they have a membership fee.
Perhaps more importantly, WHY are these members not active? Has anyone talked to them lately and tried to get them to a meeting? Have they asked them if they are upset at CAP or if something has happened in their life where they can't participate any more? Is your squadron, group, or wing having meaningful activities and are you giving members meaningful training and duties?
Many CAP members are gung-ho and don't have to be asked. Other people are more shy and need a little coaxing.
Don't go crazy before purging the membership roles. And a practical political issue: If we did a purge and we went from ~58,000 members to ~34,000 members (just a WAG), what would Congress and the USAF think? That we are no longer viable? That we are losing members?
I'm just sayin'.
Quote from: JC004 on February 28, 2010, 09:37:57 PM
Quote from: JCJ on February 28, 2010, 08:13:14 PM
The uniform board will have eight wing commanders on it (one from each region selected by the region commander) - there will also be some other members (I can't remember exactly who & I haven't unpacked yet to check my notes). There is also a provision to ensure that there is at least one female member on the board to provide feedback on women's uniform issues.
They should put ME on it. I will ruthlessly attack this uniform issue until we have something that is, well, uniform. I once calculated how many CAP vans we could fill with senior members ALONE (since it was for a uniform class at SLS) wearing authorized uniform combinations, each in a different combination. I don't remember the number, but it was disturbing.
Did you ever look at a room full of members in various combinations and think how ridiculous it looks?
You've got my vote!
Room full of members and how ridiculous it looks....
I would say that is a CAP NHQ problem for allowing it to get out of hand in the first place.
Place the blame SQUARELY on those who deserve it.......yep right there in Alabama...THAT is what is disturbing
The members wearing them...disturbing? Rooms full of members in different combos...That is what their parent organization has told them to wear. Maybe they ought to come in jeans wearing fezzes??
Doesn't seem to disturb me....
Quote from: heliodoc on March 01, 2010, 03:38:55 AM
Place the blame SQUARELY on those who deserve it.......yep right there in Alabama...THAT is what is disturbing
Forgive the gentle reminder on CAP governance, but only one or perhaps two members of the nearly 70-member NB live in Alabama.
It simply isn't fair to place responsiblity for any uniform issues on the Alabama Wing Commander alone.
Sorry Ned
SQUARELY on the upper leadership of CAP ..... Never specified THE Wing CC alone
I should have been more specific on the numbers of 70
But again....these uni changes are all approved at the NHQ level last time I was in CAP 1974-1981 and again 2005 to present
During my "hiatus" abd upon my return..... CAP still seems to function in silliness (read smurfsuit and yesthe CSU)
CAP needs one uniform and preferably for the dress unis...OUT of AF blues all together
These problems won't going away EVEN after a 2 yr moratorium..... someone will still come up and waste valuable time about "What a CAP uniform" should look like
Being from the RM......IT IS time for CAP to adopt an entirely new uniform...even if the hard liners in CAP do not agree
IT is still a leadership problem...as I was always reminded about in the RM about uniform issues
CAP INCLUDED
^^ No worries. It sounds like we agree that our volunteer leaders make uniform policy, not the hardworking professional Corporate Team.
Quote from: heliodoc on March 01, 2010, 03:58:15 AM
CAP needs one uniform and preferably for the dress unis
Strange, not one of the RM services has only one uniform (plus a dress uniform). In fact, I think they each have about as many uniform combinations as we do. But I'll let you and others argue about that in the countless future "uniform threads."
I propose a "no uniform" month in CAP. Every first week in March each year members must not wear anything to the meetings. We will then take a poll on CAPTALK whether we should just stick with what we have now or forbid clothes to be worn to meetings. Not wearing clothes eliminates this heated debate about Fat and Fuzzies versus slim and slick, and will finally put to bed the debate on who, when and where AF-Style or Corporate style must be worn.
So, here is to being totally weirded out at all of our meetings this week! Can't wait for my 80 year old Lt Col member to walk through the door with nothing but a grin on his face :o
^^^
Agreed but they are the military that supply the proverbial military industrial complex...I lived that life like many on this forum again CAPers can drive off the bridge with the criticism of the RM....again I say to CAP......look at your own house before casting stones at the RM
WEEE (CAP) on the other hand, ARE volunteers to the tune of 57-58 K
Think that small -o- number ought to have all these poor, lame decisions?
That is why I hear the jokes about CAP
Quote from: tdepp on March 01, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active. Lots of organizations are that way.
These are referred to as "patron members". If you aren't active enough to be able to get in front of a digital camera in 60 days,
you aren't an asset to the corporation because you can't be bothered.
Quote from: Ned on March 01, 2010, 04:06:14 AM
Strange, not one of the RM services has only one uniform (plus a dress uniform). In fact, I think they each have about as many uniform combinations as we do. But I'll let you and others argue about that in the countless future "uniform threads."
Correct - we've already show here that we are about equal to the USAF, and other services have more combos than we do - with that said, however, the combos generally serve a real purpose, and do not treat some members as "different" in terms of plumage.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 01, 2010, 04:32:18 AM
Quote from: tdepp on March 01, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active. Lots of organizations are that way.
These are referred to as "patron members". If you aren't active enough to be able to get in front of a digital camera in 60 days,
you aren't an asset to the corporation because you can't be bothered.
When NHQ issues a digital camera to each squadron then we can make it mandatory. I have a difficult enough time trying to get all members to take ORM, I can't imagine if I asked them to take their won picture and upload it. I would hate to have to waste an entire meeting night to taking and uploading pictures.
However, if we phase in the "mandatory" picture as part of the initial application process, that is fine by me.
Quote from: Spike on March 01, 2010, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 01, 2010, 04:32:18 AM
Quote from: tdepp on March 01, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
On the other hand, some people just like to pay their dues and not be real active. Lots of organizations are that way.
These are referred to as "patron members". If you aren't active enough to be able to get in front of a digital camera in 60 days,
you aren't an asset to the corporation because you can't be bothered.
When NHQ issues a digital camera to each squadron then we can make it mandatory. I have a difficult enough time trying to get all members to take ORM, I can't imagine if I asked them to take their won picture and upload it. I would hate to have to waste an entire meeting night to taking and uploading pictures.
However, if we phase in the "mandatory" picture as part of the initial application process, that is fine by me.
That is easy enough to do. Wing can buy (if they have not already done so) a few digital cameras and then pass them out to the squadrons for a week or two to get it done.