Blue Beret and SAR ribbon

[Cadet David Derasmo]

     I will be going to Blue Beret this year and have several goals I wish to achieve. Two of them being to hopefully gain the requirements needed for the find ribbon and SAR ribbon. From what I hear getting a find is almost a definite however, from any berets, what are the odds of going on 10 sorties? Are there ways to volunteer or ensure you are able to go on multiple SAR missions? Thank you for your time.

(also if Ground Teams are determined based on certs I am a: GTL (T), GTM 3-1, UDF, MRO, MSA, SARTECH 2, First Responder and PJOC grad.)

[lordmonar]

A ground sortie is a depart and return.....or any sortie that is 4 hour in length....so if you work 4.1 hours a day for five days......you get 10 sorties.

The key is to have fun, do a good job, learn some new skills, meet some new people......look at cool air planes.

The ribbons and medals will come when you've earned them.

[LSThiker]

Getting a Find is pretty much guaranteed.  However, the SAR ribbon is dependent on a number of factors.  Do not worry to much about it because it is out of your control.  The ground teams are based depending on your flight (not your qualifications).  When I a flight commander, and later an ES officer, there, the only GTLs were the Senior Members.  Also, as a flight commander, I created my flight's ES rotations. 

Have fun, meet some interesting people, and look at cool planes.

[Archer]

     I will be going to Blue Beret this year and have several goals I wish to achieve. Two of them being to hopefully gain the requirements needed for the find ribbon and SAR ribbon. From what I hear getting a find is almost a definite however, from any berets, what are the odds of going on 10 sorties? Are there ways to volunteer or ensure you are able to go on multiple SAR missions? Thank you for your time.

(also if Ground Teams are determined based on certs I am a: GTL, GTM 3-1, UDF, MRO, MSA, SARTECH 2, First Responder and PJOC grad.)

Cadet, how did you become a GTL when your profile states that you are sixteen years old?

[Cadet David Derasmo]

"The key is to have fun, do a good job, learn some new skills, meet some new people......look at cool air planes.

The ribbons and medals will come when you've earned them."

Absolutely, I agree. I just have a few secondary goals I'm working on. Also, according to this year's FB page, if you are not a returning beret you can still apply as a Flight Commander. Obviously preference goes to returning berets however what are the odds of this happening? Thank you for your time.

[Cadet David Derasmo]

"Cadet, how did you become a GTL when your profile states that you are sixteen years old?"

That was my mistake. I am a GTL (T). I have had all tasks completed for GTL for a little over two years. Just that darn 18 years of age prerequisite. But yes I am not a GTL I am a trainee.

[JeffDG]

"Cadet, how did you become a GTL when your profile states that you are sixteen years old?"

That was my mistake. I am a GTL (T). I have had all tasks completed for GTL for a little over two years. Just that darn 18 years of age prerequisite. But yes I am not a GTL I am a trainee.

Ummmm...prerequisites are required before you become a "Trainee".

The sequence is:  Prerequisites must be completed before Fam & Prem (n/a for GTL as there are no fam/prep), then advanced training.

You're not a GTL Trainee unless you have GTL* on your 101 card.

[Storm Chaser]

A ground sortie is a depart and return.....or any sortie that is 4 hour in length....so if you work 4.1 hours a day for five days......you get 10 sorties.

The key is to have fun, do a good job, learn some new skills, meet some new people......look at cool air planes.

The ribbons and medals will come when you've earned them.

For award of the Air Search and Rescue Ribbon, CAPR 39-3 states the following:

Ground personnel performing hazardous duties such as ground rescue or ground search, may be credited with one sortie for each 4 hours of actual participation, but not to exceed three sorties in any 24-hour period. (emphasis mine)

I read this as a minimum of 4 hours to get credit for one sortie for the ribbon. Where are you getting that 0.1 hours counts as a second sortie? Is there additional guidance on this?

[Luis R. Ramos]

I was looking for ES qualification info on another cadet on eServices when the question of C/Maj Derasmo came up. His 101 says: GES, ICS 100, ICS 700, GTM1, ICUT, *MRO, *MSA, UDF. When I looked at his GTL tasks, eServices states he has not met the GTL age task. He is missing also two other GTL tasks, that is ICS 200 and Commander Approval. However he does have his two missions as GTL!

eServices does not list this cadet as a GTL (T), nor this qual appear on his 101.

How has he been able to get all these tasks signed off?

Can anyone else agree with me he should not call himself a GTL (T)?

[edited for syntaxis]

Flyer

[JeffDG]

I was looking for ES qualification info on another cadet on eServices when the question of C/Maj Derasmo came up. His 101 says: GES, ICS 100, ICS 700, GTM1, ICUT, *MRO, *MSA, UDF. When I looked at his GTL tasks, eServices states he has not met the GTL age task. He is missing also two other GTL tasks, that is ICS 200 and Commander Approval. However he does have his two missions as GTL!

eServices does not list this cadet as a GTL (T), this qual does not appear on his 101.

How has he been able to get all these tasks?

Flyer

As a wing-level approver (not in his Wing), I'll tell you that here, "Missions" before trainee status will get a SQTR disapproved.  Training tasks, I'm less picky about.  But the "Mission Participation" requires that the member be acting in the capacity as a trainee, and to do that legally, and to have the responsibility, you need to have your Prereqs done, and you Fam/Prep done.

Concur, he is not a GTL (T).

[Storm Chaser]

Being 18 is a prerequisite for GTL. No one can be a GTL trainee until all prerequisites and familiarization and preparatory training have been completed and approved. In fact, according to CAPR 60-3, no one can get credit for exercise participation until these have been completed.

Someone hasn't been following the rules with Cadet Derasmo's GTL SQTR. That said, he's not a GTL (T).

[JeffDG]

Someone hasn't been following the rules with Cadet Derasmo's GTL SQTR. That said, he's not a GTL (T).

If neither the SQTR itself, nor the "Prerequisites" section have been processed, that SQTR hasn't been "Approved" by anyone.

[lordmonar]

A ground sortie is a depart and return.....or any sortie that is 4 hour in length....so if you work 4.1 hours a day for five days......you get 10 sorties.

The key is to have fun, do a good job, learn some new skills, meet some new people......look at cool air planes.

The ribbons and medals will come when you've earned them.

For award of the Air Search and Rescue Ribbon, CAPR 39-3 states the following:

Ground personnel performing hazardous duties such as ground rescue or ground search, may be credited with one sortie for each 4 hours of actual participation, but not to exceed three sorties in any 24-hour period. (emphasis mine)

I read this as a minimum of 4 hours to get credit for one sortie for the ribbon. Where are you getting that 0.1 hours counts as a second sortie?

So....any sortie less then 4 hours does not count?

My reading of the regulation is a sortie......is any time you depart on a sortie and return.....(for aircaft that would be a take off and a landing)....or any sortie that lasts longer then 4 hours not to exceed 3.....ergo if you depart mission base at 0600 and return at 1900 hours...that is 13 hours on a single IMU sortie.......but counts at 3 for for the ribbon.

If you depart at 0600 and return at 0645.....that's a sortie.

If you depart at 0600 and return at 1200....that's 6 hours in the field on one IMU sortie....but counts as IMHO as two sorties....one for the first four hours and one for the rest of it. 

If my 0.1 hours don't count....because of the "4 hour" interpretation.....then NO sortie less then 4 hours counts.

[Eclipse]

A sortie is either "wheels up / wheels down" (for aircrew).

Or "go / come back" for Ground Team & UDF.  The time issue only comes into play for extended duration
in the field, and then only as a function for the ribbon.

If you do a full work up and are recalled ten minutes later, that's a +1 on the ribbon.

If you go out and wind up in the field for 12 hours, or overnight, that's a single paperwork sortie and +3 for the ribbon.

[lordmonar]

A sortie is either "wheels up / wheels down" (for aircrew).

Or "go / come back" for Ground Team & UDF.  The time issue only comes into play for extended duration
in the field, and then only as a function for the ribbon.

If you do a full work up and are recalled ten minutes later, that's a +1 on the ribbon.

If you go out and wind up in the field for 12 hours, or overnight, that's a single paperwork sortie and +3 for the ribbon.

I don't think anyone is confused about that.....but what about a 4.1 hour paperwork sortie?

Is that one sortie or two?

[LSThiker]

I was looking for ES qualification info on another cadet on eServices when the question of C/Maj Derasmo came up. His 101 says: GES, ICS 100, ICS 700, GTM1, ICUT, *MRO, *MSA, UDF. When I looked at his GTL tasks, eServices states he has not met the GTL age task. He is missing also two other GTL tasks, that is ICS 200 and Commander Approval. However he does have his two missions as GTL!

eServices does not list this cadet as a GTL (T), nor this qual appear on his 101.

How has he been able to get all these tasks signed off?

Can anyone else agree with me he should not call himself a GTL (T)?

[edited for syntaxis]

Flyer

Careful.  The use of eServices and Member Searches are for official CAP use.  I do not think CAP Legal would agree looking up someone's ES data for the purposes of Captalk would count as FOUO. 

[Eclipse]

This shows another big weakness in the SET system.

Any tasks or missions signed off should be invalid until the pre-reqs are met.
If you aren't minimally qualified and commander approved, you're not allowed to
be evaluated.

There needs to be a conversation here with the SET, who is clearly vague on the term "requirements",
the cadet's commander, and whomever approved all those tasks up to the wing level.

You're supposed to actually >CHECK< what you're clicking.

[Eclipse]

A sortie is either "wheels up / wheels down" (for aircrew).

Or "go / come back" for Ground Team & UDF.  The time issue only comes into play for extended duration
in the field, and then only as a function for the ribbon.

If you do a full work up and are recalled ten minutes later, that's a +1 on the ribbon.

If you go out and wind up in the field for 12 hours, or overnight, that's a single paperwork sortie and +3 for the ribbon.

I don't think anyone is confused about that.....but what about a 4.1 hour paperwork sortie?

Is that one sortie or two?

One.

It's one per 4 hours.  Until you hit "8" it's still one sortie.

Anything else would encourage people to stop for lunch on the way back to game the system.

[lordmonar]

This shows another big weakness in the SET system.

Any tasks or missions signed off should be invalid until the pre-reqs are met.
If you aren't minimally qualified and commander approved, you're not allowed to
be evaluated.

There needs to be a conversation here with the SET, who is clearly vague on the term "requirements",
the cadet's commander, and whomever approved all those tasks up to the wing level.

You're supposed to actually >CHECK< what you're clicking.

You would think......except when GTL and GTM are concerned as there are a lot of over lap.   Also there are lots of cross specialty tasks.....everyone who does O-0004 gets it signed off for ALL specialties that have O-0004 in it.

Remember SETS are not signing off on a specialty.....just on tasks.......WING is the one who signs off the specialty.

[Storm Chaser]

Someone hasn't been following the rules with Cadet Derasmo's GTL SQTR. That said, he's not a GTL (T).

If neither the SQTR itself, nor the "Prerequisites" section have been processed, that SQTR hasn't been "Approved" by anyone.

I never said it was. But since this cadet has both exercise participations signed off in clear contradiction of CAPR 60-3, someone (i.e. the skills evaluator) hasn't been following the rules.