Red Beret?

[go4spaatz]

I just saw this in the NBB newsletters:
http://www.ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/cms/Volume_10_Issue_2_19C4AD41B2729.pdf (page 3)

Anyone know about the red pancake on the C/Lt. Col? 
It looks like the flash is the St. Alban's cross, but, what's it for?

[jeders]

That's a blue beret, not a red one. The lighting of the photo just makes it look redish.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm pretty sure that CAPM 39-1 states that only blue berets are authorized in CAP. I don't know what this maroon beret means, but it is likely this cadet is out of uniform.

[Storm Chaser]

That's a blue beret, not a red one. The lighting of the photo just makes it look redish.

If that's the case, then the PAO responsible for this shouldn't have used this picture, as it gives the wrong impression.

[Eclipse]

That's a blue beret, not a red one. The lighting of the photo just makes it look redish.

+1 - look close and at different angles on the monitor.

Someone needs to clean the lens on their cell phone.

[Майор Хаткевич]

That's a blue beret, not a red one. The lighting of the photo just makes it look redish.

+1 - look close and at different angles on the monitor.

Someone needs to clean the lens on their cell phone.

I was drinking soda...now it's all over my desk.

[NIN]

Its the angle of the sun in the pic thats causing that. I had to look closely too.

Cuz I would have sworn it was maroon.

Its not.

[NCRblues]

It is a blue beret he has on.

The pin is the small st albuns pin that was discontinued after NBB 2007.

[lordmonar]

That's a blue beret, not a red one. The lighting of the photo just makes it look redish.

If that's the case, then the PAO responsible for this shouldn't have used this picture, as it gives the wrong impression.

Disagree.  But they you go.

[a2capt]

Really? That much of a contrast difference between the two, and even the red on the shoulder patch is, well, perfectly red. The rest of the uniform is the right color. Only the beret turns perfectly .. not blue?

Is it a really old one, that is uniformly reacting to the light? That's just weird.

[Eclipse]

The whole upper left of the photo is skewing into the red because of the sun.  Those pancakes
are all but purple as it is in the right light.

The haze, which is likely caused by "sweaty iphone syndrome" isn't helping.



As long as we're discussing the newsletter, one might wonder if the good people at MouseWorks
approved of the use of their IP.

[lordmonar]

Are we all sitting here contemplating that ONE....ONE cadet at NBlueB was sporting a Red Beret and this is the first we hear about it?

Are we also contemplating that the NBB staff, who are already protective our their berets, would allow someone to step so far outside the regulations that they KNOW it would cause and out roar from the anti beret crowd?

And then be stupid enough to post it in their own newsletter?

No.....this is just a color problem with the photo.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The sun seems to be falling in the same way on the female cadet's beret.

I am at a loss to explain why the color shift on his beret, yet cannot accept the explanation that "the sun is shinning on his beret," when it shines the same way on her. See the shine on both their faces. And cannot accept he was wearing a red beret on purpose also for the reasons Lord posts...

Will a blue beret exposed to sun and elements fade this bad to red...?

Flyer

[jeders]

I am at a loss to explain why the color shift on his beret, yet cannot accept the explanation that "the sun is shinning on his beret," when it shines the same way on her. See the shine on both their faces. And cannot accept he was wearing a red beret on purpose also for the reasons Lord posts...

Because it's not how the sun is falling, it's because the sun is just outside the photo near his head. The picture looks like closing formation, so you're looking at dusk. The sun is low and just out of frame.

[jimmydeanno]

Yep, the camera is messing up the color balance because the bright sky is touching his beret.  The other one is touching the darker colors in the photo. 

Everything in the upper third of the picture is washed out from the overexposure.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The two cadets are so close together that anything affecting him should affect her equally...

Flyer

[Майор Хаткевич]

The two cadets are so close together that anything affecting him should affect her equally...

Flyer

This isn't The Force. It's photography.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Exactly because it is photography I find so hard to accept that explanation. It should affect her beret as well... Even if not entirely, at least partially.

Flyer

[NCRblues]

For real?? Is this really going on...

Considering I was maybe MAYBE 30 foot away from the formation when this was taken, he was wearing a BLUE beret.... The outstanding cadet in question was on staff and did an amazing job...

Anyone who thinks I would allow a cadet at NBB to wear an unauthorized red beret, or anyone on beret staff for that matter, is crazy...

It's a blue beret...

[Eclipse]

The two cadets are so close together that anything affecting him should affect her equally...

Not necessarily.  Depending on the camera, this is pretty common.

The CCD's get overwhelmed and the white balance goes nuts.

[go4spaatz]

Based on this newsletter: http://www.ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/cms/Volume_10_Issue_6_F08850B171936.pdf
I'm going to guess the guy on Page 2 is the same guy, and it's definitely a Blue Beret. That is an extremely freaky lighting phenomena, though.

[a2capt]

What's the MouseWorks thing? The font/type style used, the "cute" icon?

[Eclipse]

What's the MouseWorks thing? The font/type style used, the "cute" icon?

The patch on the last page.

[lordmonar]

The two cadets are so close together that anything affecting him should affect her equally...

Flyer

Not with today's modern cameras.....each pixel is processed separately.

[PHall]

The C/LtCol is wearing a pin that was last given out in 2007, I'm willing to bet that he got that beret in 2007 too.
It's probably seen a whole lot of UV during it's lifetime. UV that tends to fade colors...

[SarDragon]

The only problem with that theory is that red fades worst, first. Hardly any color fades to red. It's usually red fading to something else.

[Майор Хаткевич]

There's probably no abnormality with his beret. Just bad picture framing.

[abdsp51]

The C/LtCol is wearing a pin that was last given out in 2007, I'm willing to bet that he got that beret in 2007 too.
It's probably seen a whole lot of UV during it's lifetime. UV that tends to fade colors...

True but blue berets tend to go greyish and not red/maroonish.

[Майор Хаткевич]

2013-2007= 6. Don't you need to be 16 for NBB?

[Flying Pig]

For real?? Is this really going on...

Considering I was maybe MAYBE 30 foot away from the formation when this was taken, he was wearing a BLUE beret.... The outstanding cadet in question was on staff and did an amazing job...

Anyone who thinks I would allow a cadet at NBB to wear an unauthorized red beret, or anyone on beret staff for that matter, is crazy...

It's a blue beret...

Im sorry.... did anyone ask for an eye witness account from someone who was there when this photo was taken and who knows this cadet? You are ruining everything.  Please step back and let us tell you what it was that you saw.  You are dismissed. 

[NIN]

The two cadets are so close together that anything affecting him should affect her equally...

thank you, Ansel.

[stillamarine]

For real?? Is this really going on...

Considering I was maybe MAYBE 30 foot away from the formation when this was taken, he was wearing a BLUE beret.... The outstanding cadet in question was on staff and did an amazing job...

Anyone who thinks I would allow a cadet at NBB to wear an unauthorized red beret, or anyone on beret staff for that matter, is crazy...

It's a blue beret...

Im sorry.... did anyone ask for an eye witness account from someone who was there when this photo was taken and who knows this cadet? You are ruining everything.  Please step back and let us tell you what it was that you saw.  You are dismissed. 

Yes because Eye witnesses are not evidence. We had a robbery suspect picked out by 5 individual unrelated witnesses and the DA didn't want to give us a warrant cause he hasn't confessed.

[NIN]

Yes because Eye witnesses are not evidence. We had a robbery suspect picked out by 5 individual unrelated witnesses and the DA didn't want to give us a warrant cause he hasn't confessed.

I think Flying Pig was cracking wise.

Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure.

[stillamarine]

Yes because Eye witnesses are not evidence. We had a robbery suspect picked out by 5 individual unrelated witnesses and the DA didn't want to give us a warrant cause he hasn't confessed.

I think Flying Pig was cracking wise.

Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure.

Oh I know he was. I was just being bitter.

[CAPSGT]

It is a blue beret he has on.

The pin is the small st albuns pin that was discontinued after NBB 2007.

I wonder where he got that    The larger pins first came out around 2005 IIRC.  I could be wrong, but I didn't think that it was an intentional change to the large ones, I think it was just made with the wrong dimensions and ordered in bulk.

[Flying Pig]

Yes because Eye witnesses are not evidence. We had a robbery suspect picked out by 5 individual unrelated witnesses and the DA didn't want to give us a warrant cause he hasn't confessed.

I think Flying Pig was cracking wise.

Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure.

Oh I know he was. I was just being bitter.

Cops are always looking for a reason to vent

[arajca]

It is a blue beret he has on.

The pin is the small st albuns pin that was discontinued after NBB 2007.

I wonder where he got that    The larger pins first came out around 2005 IIRC.  I could be wrong, but I didn't think that it was an intentional change to the large ones, I think it was just made with the wrong dimensions and ordered in bulk.

That could have been when they ran out of small ones.

[RogueLeader]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

[UH60guy]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

Edit based on the noise of the point flying right over my head. You said SM Maj, I saw Sgt Maj. My bad- obviously my eyes are ruined from the squinting you forced upon me.

[Flying Pig]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

SM Maj is Senior Member Major.....  Im thinkin  Unless he really was a Sgt Maj

[Garibaldi]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

SM Maj is Senior Member Major.....  Im thinkin  Unless he really was a Sgt Maj

Major Major?

[PHall]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

SM Maj is Senior Member Major.....  Im thinkin  Unless he really was a Sgt Maj

Major Major?

Or a CorperalCaptain!

[RogueLeader]

When I made Major, last November, the paper printed: "Local Man Promoted to Major Captain."

What the heck is a Major captain?

[PHall]

When I made Major, last November, the paper printed: "Local Man Promoted to Major Captain."

What the heck is a Major captain?

One grade up from a Minor Captain!

[ol'fido]

Eh, did he say he was Captain of the Minnow, Marge?

[RogueLeader]

There is a rumor that a SM Maj was known to be wearing a Maroon beret at NBB.


Of course, he was a former army type dude that wore it in the RM, and only used it inside for proper teaching techniques. 

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

SM Maj is Senior Member Major.....  Im thinkin  Unless he really was a Sgt Maj

Nope. He only made PFC if my memory serves correctly.

[NIN]

Careful there... Sergeant Majors have learned to spot uniform deficiencies at 100 paces- tiny text ought to be no problem for them

Edit based on the noise of the point flying right over my head. You said SM Maj, I saw Sgt Maj. My bad- obviously my eyes are ruined from the squinting you forced upon me.

NVM that the plural of "Sergeant Major" is "Sergeants Major"

I'll show myself out.

[Luis R. Ramos]

This thread inspired me to do the following...

I am not trying to be disrespectful to the Green Berets, or the cadets at Oshkosh.

Ballad of the Blue Beret
Sung to the tune of Ballad of the Green Beret by Staff Sergeant Barry Sadler and Robin Moore, copyright 1966, modified by Flyer,

Tireless cadets at Oshkosh
Tireless people who run and walk.
Cadets qualified to do just that
The tireless cadets of the Blue Beret.

St Albans crosses on their berets,   
These are cadets, CAP's best!
One hundred will test today,
And all will get their Blue Beret.

Trained to look for overdue aircraft.
Trained to silence disaster beacons.
Cadets tirelessly looking night and day.
Sweat pours out by the gallon.

St Albans crosses on their berets,   
These are cadets, CAP's best!
One hundred will test today,
And all will get their Blue Beret.

Back at home a sister waits...
Her brother at Oshkosh.
She sees his work, she frowns.

I will have your St Albans cross.
I will be one... of CAP's best.
I will train... I will wear the Blue Beret.

Flyer

[a2capt]

What is the connection with St Albans anyway? A town in the UK. Were they instrumental in mustering and organizing large scale events, was there a flying machine contraption gathering there in the early times? It can't be Firefly, that's too new.

[Flying Pig]

http://www.blueberet.org/blueberetstalbanscross.htm

Ive never been associated with NBB but I asked the same question and was given this.

[arajca]

Back to the original picture...

It has been stated that the cadet in question is actually wearing a blue beret. Fine, they actually are wearing a blue beret. The picture STILL looks like a red/maroon beret.

For the average person looking at the picture they will see a red/maroon beret and make the logical conclusion the cadet is wearing a different hat and is likely from a different unit/activity. As has already been pointed out, whoever used that particular picture made a mistake by either using it or not noting the color issue in a caption. It comes down to perception. This problem is not, unfortunately, limited to NBB, but is endemic throughout CAP.

[a2capt]

So, a man who got the shaft under the cloak of kindness.

I thought I'd read that main page before, but not the sub pages. Quick searching for NBB stuff only brought up the Facebook and NCSA sites.

Ah well.

Reading the bottom of that page sure sounds like someone has swallowed the bitter pill. Don't contact me about it, I know nothing.

[a2capt]

Back to the original picture...

It has been stated that the cadet in question is actually wearing a blue beret. Fine, they actually are wearing a blue beret. The picture STILL looks like a red/maroon beret.

Posted without warning in the midst of a reply .. neato.

Thats where the PAO part in me would say, "wow, here's a really nice shot to use.. if only .." because it portrays the wrong message.

Maybe I can find the two cadets and get the same shot again, maybe a filter will fix the color, maybe in a stretch.. I might add in the caption, "The early morning sun .. "but at the end of the day, they say that a picture is a thousand words.

The very first thing I see there. A cover that stands out, and I think "Why is that?"

To say I'm still quite intrigued that pretty much the only thing that went bad in that photo is the cover. The effect isn't bleeding onto the hemmed rim, the cadets face, the edge of the uniform that is similarly framed by the horizon. None of it. Even the horizon is pretty consistant.

Now to figure out how to use that photography quirk to ones advantage.

[lordmonar]

Back to the original picture...

It has been stated that the cadet in question is actually wearing a blue beret. Fine, they actually are wearing a blue beret. The picture STILL looks like a red/maroon beret.

For the average person looking at the picture they will see a red/maroon beret and make the logical conclusion the cadet is wearing a different hat and is likely from a different unit/activity. As has already been pointed out, whoever used that particular picture made a mistake by either using it or not noting the color issue in a caption. It comes down to perception. This problem is not, unfortunately, limited to NBB, but is endemic throughout CAP.

Define the "average person" and then define what are the consequences if they came to the wrong conclusion that the individual was "likely from a different unit/activity"?

The ONLY people who have heart burn with this are those who a) hate berets in general, b) hate NBB specifically or c) are so strung out on the uniform regs that they need to take a break from CAP Talk.

This whole issue came about because someone wanted to jump on NBB for violating the regs and doing some rouge hat thing at NBB.

The were wrong.....and now you all are trying say "Someone is at fault because I jumped to conclusions".

[NMeyers93]

Being the C/Lt Col in question, I have a few comments.

I was the Cadet Executive Officer this year at NBB.  That was evening formation, with the sun setting in the west.  You would know that if you have been to NBB or have been on compound at the activity (or another activity held there).  I was standing in front of the ENTIRE activity, including the Activity Director.  Considering how much 39-1 is stressed, especially by the PAO staff, I'm sure I would have known had I put on a red or maroon beret.

Anyone who knows anything at all about photography would know that the fading or redness is caused by the setting sun.  It in fact does apply to the cadet in the foreground, however, not to the same degree.  You can see it happening on the edge of hers.

I myself am a uniform Nazi, anybody who knows me knows that.

The small St. Alban's pin I received from NBB's '03 Cadet Commander, who happens to hail from Maryland Wing as do I.  He already made an appearance on this thread (CAPSGT I'm looking at you).  The beret I am wearing in the picture is the beret I earned at NBB '12.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen for your concern, but I was, in fact, wearing a Blue Beret.

[ol'fido]

Now that we've heard from the cadet in question and got a real good "no bull" answer from lordmonar about the whole mess, let's get on to something that real people will actually care about.

[Mitchell 1969]

http://www.blueberet.org/blueberetstalbanscross.htm

Ive never been associated with NBB but I asked the same question and was given this.

Agghhh! Why do they call it a "crest?"  It is obviously a shield!  (The crest is the thing that goes on top of the helm or on top of the shield, depending on how depicted).

[Mitchell 1969]

Being the C/Lt Col in question, I have a few comments.

I was the Cadet Executive Officer this year at NBB.  That was evening formation, with the sun setting in the west.  You would know that if you have been to NBB or have been on compound at the activity (or another activity held there).

I've never been to NBB. Nevertheless, I already knew that the sun sets in the West.

[jeders]

Now that we've heard from the cadet in question and got a real good "no bull" answer from lordmonar about the whole mess, let's get on to something that real people will actually care about.

Yes, like when we're going to get the ABU beret.

[NIN]

I've never been to NBB. Nevertheless, I already knew that the sun sets in the West.

Bernie, warn a brother, willya? I had a mouthful of coffee when I read that, and about a quarter of it went out my nose.

[NIN]

Back to the original picture...

It has been stated that the cadet in question is actually wearing a blue beret. Fine, they actually are wearing a blue beret. The picture STILL looks like a red/maroon beret.

For the average person looking at the picture they will see a red/maroon beret and make the logical conclusion the cadet is wearing a different hat and is likely from a different unit/activity. As has already been pointed out, whoever used that particular picture made a mistake by either using it or not noting the color issue in a caption. It comes down to perception. This problem is not, unfortunately, limited to NBB, but is endemic throughout CAP.

I took a picture of a C-130 flying past once. You could only see one engine due to the angle, parallax, angle of bank, etc.

Could you rightly conclude from that ONE photo that the C-130 is a single-engined transport?

Let it go. It was a decent photo that had a weird trick of lighting in the instant in which it was snapped. Stuff happens.  Sometimes PAOs don't have exactly a wide range of professionally taken photos from which to base their editorial decisions and have to "run what they brung" so to speak.

If you'd like, I can photoshop a little JJ Abrams-style lens flare to help enhance idea that the sun was there?

[Mitchell 1969]

I've never been to NBB. Nevertheless, I already knew that the sun sets in the West.

Bernie, warn a brother, willya? I had a mouthful of coffee when I read that, and about a quarter of it went out my nose.

Next time you see your doctor, you can take pride in saying "I've cut down on my caffeine intake."