G1000

[Flying Pig]

I was just notified by my Group Commander that my Squadron is receiving a brand new 2010 Cessna 182 G-1000.!!!!   YEEEES!  Now the hard work begins.  We have G1000 pilots, but a couple of us need to get trained up.  Cant WAIT!

[Thrashed]

Merry Christmas! 

[Jill]

Robert,

I'm going to take the day off to see this new arrival.  Will bring the digital.

[DG]

I am a CAP CFAI from 4 1/2 years ago.  April 2005.  Attended at Independence for our U206H NAV III.  (And several hundred hours of instructing as CFII in CAP C-18T NAV III.)

My transfer request papers are in the mail.

[blackrain]

Turbocharged?

[Flying Pig]

I am a CAP CFAI from 4 1/2 years ago.  April 2005.  Attended at Independence for our U206H NAV III.  (And several hundred hours of instructing as CFII in CAP C-18T NAV III.)

My transfer request papers are in the mail.

Let me know, Ill approve the transfer in e-services!

[DG]

From what Jill says, Fresno is a great squadron, led by a great squadron commander.

[bosshawk]

Rob: congratulations, I think!!!!  Now your trials and tribulations are just starting.  From other units that have 1000s, I hear that staying current is a bear, given the amount of hours that we get to stay proficient.  All that said, it is a feather in your cap(?) or something like that.

[scooter]

My squadron has had one of these since last August. So far we have put almost 400 hours on it, both training and missions. The best way we have found to train pilots is give them some right seat rides to get familiar with the MFD then transition to the left seat. This works even if they are G1000 qualified in another aircraft. The CAP intercom system is unique to CAP versions of the airplane. Once you get checked out, on a mission you may be solo in the thing even thought there may be two (light weight) bodies in the other seats that may not be familiar with the G1000 system. When this happens, the pilots ability to do the mission things degrades depending on how much time is required to help the help do the programming. Get your crew chief up to speed quickly, lots of things for him to do with the airplane when it arrives. Have fun, fly safe.

[c172drv]

We are alternating with another squaddron and have had a great deal of luck getting our folks trainined by spending serious time training outseide of the plane and with the ground power supply pluggee in.  Doing button pushing with no prop turning seems to help a lot.  Biggest issues always seem to be in programing the system.  This you can do with out ever starting the engine. 

Good luck with everything.

[genejackson]

Ditto to John Jester's comments.   Learn the G1000 and do what you need to do to stay proficient.   Another excellent option is to obtain the training DVD CD-ROM from Garmin.  It's only $25.00.   Be sure you get the current version (9.03au) if you search online from eBay, etc.   Version 9.03au will match the GFC-700 for the current software load in the newer aircraft.   And the new DVD also has the SVT (synthetic vision technology) which is extremely cool.   If you set your screen resolution for 800x600, no SVT.  If you go 1024x768 or higher, you get SVT.   And you can connect a second computer monitor to your laptop and run BOTH the PFD and MFD at the same time for excellent desktop training and practice to stay fresh on the buttons once you complete your scenario based training.  In the menu tree you simply click on "Start Dual Screen Trainer".

This airplane is nothing short of phenominal.   I've recently had several night hard IFR flights with approaches down to minimums and shooting the ILS or a GPS with LNAV-V with the GFC-700 in hard IFR will spoil you such that you'll never want to fly anything else.

Learn the plane by the book, do the scenario based training with a skilled G1000 instructor pilot, use the trainer often to stay on top of your game.  You won't be sorry.

Gene Jackson
VAWG

[Flying Pig]

Does a CFI need to have attended the FACTORY course to instruct in it or will a CAP CFII who is G1000 qualified be sufficient?

[FastAttack]

Does a CFI need to have attended the FACTORY course to instruct in it or will a CAP CFII who is G1000 qualified be sufficient?

the cfi needs to be a FITS certified instructor.

thats why its hard to get IP's in the first place.

thus the problem in most wings on getting training.

[sparks]

One comment, if the CFI isn't a factory trained instructor, he/she will need to be trained by a G1000 instructor designated as such by the wing. That instructor wouldn't need to be a factory trained instructor but would have been trained using the FITS Cessna approved course. Of course a specific CAPF 5 for the G1000 would be required at the completion of training. CAPF 60-1 has the information. Your wing may have a 60-1 supplement on qualifications so be sure to check that, mine doesn't.

Good Luck 

[DG]

(4) Cessna Nav III G1000 Airplanes – In addition to other requirements:
(a) Complete the CAP Cessna G1000 transition syllabus for VFR operation.
(b) For instrument operating privileges in G1000, complete the CAP Cessna G1000 transition syllabus for Instrument operation. To remain current for instrument privileges in G1000 airplanes, a pilot must take an Instrument Proficiency Check using a G1000 airplane or the pilot must complete three of the approaches required for ongoing FAA Instrument currency in a G1000 airplane.
(c) For flight instructor privileges in G1000, complete the CAP Cessna G1000 transition syllabus for Flight Instructors that is given by a Cessna factory trained instructor.
(d) G1000 check pilots must be Cessna factory trained or have provided a minimum of 15 hours dual instruction in G1000 equipped airplanes.

[Mustang]

I am a CAP CFAI from 4 1/2 years ago.  April 2005.  Attended at Independence for our U206H NAV III. 

CAP has a NAV III U206?  Where?

[DG]

I am a CAP CFAI from 4 1/2 years ago.  April 2005.  Attended at Independence for our U206H NAV III. 

CAP has a NAV III U206?  Where?

PAWG

I picked it up at the factory almost 5 years ago.

[Mustang]

What the hell does a lowland state like PA need a 206 for???  That thing belongs somewhere where the additional HP is needed, i.e., mountainous/high D.A. environs.

[SarDragon]

What the hell does a lowland state like PA need a 206 for???  That thing belongs somewhere where the additional HP is needed, i.e., mountainous/high D.A. environs.

Well, they do have the Appalachians. They get all the way up to 3200 feet. 

[Mustang]

There you go again, Dave, trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. 

[SarDragon]

And just think, all of Colorado is higher than the highest point in PA. By about 100 feet. 

And we mustn't forget Flat Florida, our shortest state, max elev 345 feet. 

[sparks]

That 100' elevation probably doesn't included some of the high garbage land fills

[Thrashed]

People in PA are funny.  I moved to the Poconos Mountains from California. I still have not found any mountains. If it is not at least 8,000'- it is NOT a mountain (my definition).  They talk about mountain flight training here and I laugh.  I tell them the nearest mountain is in Colorado and that's a long flight in a Cessna.

That's ok, people in CA are funny about flying in weather. 

[BillB]

I think the highest point in Central and South Florida is an I-95 overpass

[Thrashed]

Not Space Mountain?

[DG]

What the hell does a lowland state like PA need a 206 for???  That thing belongs somewhere where the additional HP is needed, i.e., mountainous/high D.A. environs.

When you fly extended SDIS missions in the middle of Class B, you learn how important it is to have 4 crew members.  Mission Pilot and Mission Observer in front and Mission Specialist (camera) and Mission Specialist (computer) aft.  And in fact, it is necessary for safety.  When orbiting low and slow doing SDIS directly under the final approach course with airliners going directly over, one after another.

We learned that early on with SDIS in PA.  We were the first (2003).  Initially with N732NS U206G (NER aircraft at the time) and then N5461X U206G (borrowed from National and later transferred to NER).

We got N206CP U206H NAVIII in April 2005.

We found early on that the U206 is the platform of choice for SDIS.  In the 182, crews wanted to land for a break after an hour and 45 minutes, tops.  In the 206, they can fly all day, with a smile.

FLWG knows that and now has N732NS (club seating).

And we just today flew 4 to another wing at the other end of region to pick up 2 aircraft.  2 pilots for receiving aircraft and the Wing Maintenance Officer (Pilot but not current).

Try doing any of that comfortably or efficiently or safely in a 172, MT7, 182 (especially C182 NAVIII), or GA-8 (with ARCHER on board.)

[Mustang]

FOUR crewmembers for an SDIS sortie? (What, no flight attendant?) 

You're kidding, right?

When you fly extended SDIS missions in the middle of Class B, you learn how important it is to have 4 crew members.  Mission Pilot and Mission Observer in front and Mission Specialist (camera) and Mission Specialist (computer) aft.  And in fact, it is necessary for safety.  When orbiting low and slow doing SDIS directly under the final approach course with airliners going directly over, one after another.

When you put it that way, I wonder how on earth I ever managed to fly over 550 hours of aerial mapping photography in a C-172, with a crew of me, myself and I, within some of the country's busiest Class B airspace including San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Dallas, New Orleans and Philadelphia, operating the camera computer system and flying the aircraft to VERY precise tolerances (+/- 5 degrees bank/pitch, desired ground track within 75 feet), for hours on end, day in and day out for months.  Why, that's simply impossible! 

[DG]

When you put it that way, I wonder how on earth I ever managed to fly over 550 hours of aerial mapping photography in a C-172, with a crew of me, myself and I, within some of the country's busiest Class B airspace including San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Dallas, New Orleans and Philadelphia, operating the camera computer system and flying the aircraft to VERY precise tolerances (+/- 5 degrees bank/pitch, desired ground track within 75 feet), for hours on end, day in and day out for months.  Why, that's simply impossible! 

I am surprised to hear you are a pilot.  You had made such a big deal over the importance of using the U206 for altitude.  You and the other posters sounded clueless when you made such a big deal over 206's needed only for higher altitudes.  We use our 206 (normally aspirated) to increase useful load and interior space over the 182, not for altitude.

Further, your flying in Class B like that sounds extremely unsafe.

And you come across like a cowboy.

An unsafe cowboy.

[truthseeker]

Yes, the 206 is a great aircraft.  Too bad we don't get to utilize this wonderful airframe for what it was intended, as it is "closely guarded" by a select few.   

[heliodoc]

I do not where CAP folks get of callin other pilots cowboys

Being a former aerial photo interpreter for a major land management agency twenty yrs ago...

It is not uncommon for aerial photo flight profiles to be done in Class B airspace.  You CAP SDIS folks operatin cameras ought to know this by now.

There are various flight profiles at different altitudes per contract requirements so I do not where DG and some other folks start clling others cowboys.  Nest thing you know CAPers are going to call pilots in Alaska,  cowboys.   There are some probably.

Flying in Class B under aerial photo / sketch mapping contracts is NOT unsafe.  Don't know where that come from , either.

As for U206 and my case C182RG's in CAP...well you can sure bet it is only flown by the few with very little opportunities for others to fly.

U206 C206/ C205/ C207 series were and are standard workhorses.  Some Wing are just lucky to have 'em.  But limiting to a certain few while their are others that fly them them for a living and some in CAP wanting to fly them, but can't, is a pure JOKE.

Again there is is NOTHING unsafe or being a cowboy about Mustang's former carrer field.  Whether CAP know its or not, there are guys doing this type of stuff everyday

What's the matter CAPers, forgot to read the new Aerospace text for cadet and seniors?  Different careers are mentioned there, including aerial photography,  Just not the contract requirements.  No cowboys in aerial photo flyin work...probably could teach a few CAPer SDIS and aerial photo folks a few things or two......

Did I enlighten any CAPers here?

[DG]

Years ago, the PA Legislature bought PAWG a Piper Aztek.

Main purpose was to transport DMVA under MOU.

PAWG later traded the Aztek for a Saratoga and eventually later still traded in the Saratoga for N206CP U-206H NAVIII.

[Mustang]

I am surprised to hear you are a pilot.  You had made such a big deal over the importance of using the U206 for altitude.  You and the other posters sounded clueless when you made such a big deal over 206's needed only for higher altitudes.  We use our 206 (normally aspirated) to increase useful load and interior space over the 182, not for altitude.

So let me get this straight: you're actually trying to make the argument that crew comfort is more important than crew safety?  In high density altitude search operations, the extra horsepower is a necessity, not a luxury.

If you NEED four crewmembers to accomplish an SDIS sortie, at least one of those crewmembers is incompetent.

Further, your flying in Class B like that sounds extremely unsafe.

Heliodoc covered this pretty well, but let me just say this: it probably would be unsafe if performed by your average CAP aircrew.  Instead, we're talking about a professional operation, flown by professional pilots who typically fly 80-100 hours a month or more--with all the proficiency benefits flying daily provides. Our mapping operations were probably a lot safer than your average CAP crew out for a grid search in the flatlands.  The average CAP pilot flies MAYBE 4-5 hours a month, most fly a lot less.

I will concede that many of the pilots performing such mapping work are low-timers working to build flight experience for charter or regional airline jobs (I was), and thus may be less experienced than some CAP pilots, but they all hold commercial certificates and instrument ratings.  Many are even CFIs.  Qualifications which most CAP pilots do not possess.  And statistically, pilots so-qualified are safer than pilots who are not.

Moreover, the operations themselves are closely coordinated with ATC, who are provided maps depicting the areas and altitudes to be flown. And when we say where and how high we'll be, that's EXACTLY where we'll be; the navigational tolerances for this sort of flying are so tight that being off course or altitude is simply not an option.  This close coordination allows us to fly virtually anywhere in the US we need to--even the prohibited areas in DC have been flown recently by mapping crews. 

And you come across like a cowboy.

An unsafe cowboy.

People who know and fly with me would suggest otherwise, but thanks for weighing in with your uninformed opinion.