Becoming a pilot

[Raja1020]

Is there anything else you can do in CAP while a cadet, besides Orientation flights to either become a pilot or help train to become a pilot?

[davidsinn]

Is there anything else you can do in CAP while a cadet, besides Orientation flights to either become a pilot or help train to become a pilot?

Not this year. In Dec you can apply to the National flight academy or the Johnson flight academy both held in the same location but a few weeks apart.

[Raja1020]

What are the differences between the two?

[Pylon]

If you have your Mitchell Award, you can pair up with a CAP instructor pilot to receive flight instruction.  The benefit to doing it through CAP is that CAP flight instructors are prohibited from charging you money for their time & services, and you'll get the decent corporate rate for the plane -- definitely cheaper than going to the FBO for flight lessons, if you can find a CAP flight instructor willing, have your Mitchell, get your Squadron and Wing Commanders to approve, et cetera.

[EMT-83]

In addition to flight academies, cadets are allowed to receive primary flight instruction from a CAP CFI.

If there is a program in your area, this is a great opportunity to obtain your solo rating, or even a pilot's license. It's on your dime, but is a lot cheaper than a traditional flight school.

Edit: Pylon beat me to it.

[JeffDG]

In addition to flight academies, cadets are allowed to receive primary flight instruction from a CAP CFI.

If there is a program in your area, this is a great opportunity to obtain your solo rating, or even a pilot's license. It's on your dime, but is a lot cheaper than a traditional flight school.

Edit: Pylon beat me to it.

Some Wings have scholarship programs to either entirely or partially pick up the tab too...kick it up the Chain of Command to see what's available.

[Ed Bos]

If you can't find a CAP CFI willing to help, as a CAP member you're also eligible to join a nearby base Aero Club. Assuming you're close to an AF base that might be an option.

[davidsinn]

What are the differences between the two?

National is an NCSA and you get the ribbon for it. Johnson is an ILWG activity but is open to all so no NCSA ribbon. Other than that I don't think there is much difference.

[tsrup]

If you have your Mitchell Award, you can pair up with a CAP instructor pilot to receive flight instruction.  The benefit to doing it through CAP is that CAP flight instructors are prohibited from charging you money for their time & services, and you'll get the decent corporate rate for the plane -- definitely cheaper than going to the FBO for flight lessons, if you can find a CAP flight instructor willing, have your Mitchell, get your Squadron and Wing Commanders to approve, et cetera.

This must just be a wing policy, as it is not mentioned in CAPR 60-1

[DC]

You must have the Mitchell Award to apply for any of the flight scholarships offered by National, but not to receive the actual training, on your dime.

[Thrashed]

Any cadet can use gliders or aircraft for flight training.  See CAPR 60-1, 2-8, a. You must pay the wing set price for the aircraft. Instruction is free. I've offered it to the cadets in our squadron and not one has taken me up on it. The plane is about 1/2 the price of the local FBO and instruction is free.  They can get their certificate for about 1/2 the normal price.  Still no takers!?

As far as free flight training for cadets: I know of none. Powered camp is $1000 for 10 hours of flying.  That's $100/hour, which is more than the hour rate for a CAP aircraft (C172). Orientation flights are NOT dual flight instruction. They are glorified demo flights.  Even if you are an instructor, you not giving "dual" instruction.  My wing currently has ZERO funds for O-flights too.

Question
  Assuming the pilot giving an Orientation Ride to a cadet is a CAP qualified instructor, can the student log the time and can the instructor sign it off as dual toward a Private Pilot License?
  Answer
  No. Orientation flights may not be credited toward any pilot ratings (solo, private pilot, etc.).See Paragraph 8-5 below from  CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management EFFECTIVE 1 FEBRUARY 2011

8-5. Cadet Orientation Flights. The Cadet Orientation Flight Program's primary goal is to introduce youth to general aviation through hands-on orientation flights in single engine aircraft and gliders.
a. Eligibility. Cadets may fly as much as possible, but normally only five powered flights and five glider flights will be reimbursed. Wing commanders may authorize reimbursements for additional flights. More than one cadet may fly per sortie, depending upon the aircraft's capability. Cadets are authorized an unlimited number of backseat flights; they do not lose any of their syllabus flights by observing another cadet's flight from the backseat. The program is limited to current CAP cadets under 18 years of age. However, cadets aged 18 and older may participate in military orientation flights.
b. Use of Syllabus. A successful orientation flight will fulfill at least 80% of the objectives found in CAPP 52-7, Cadet Orientation Flight Syllabus. Pilots must adhere to the syllabus, and meet the safety guidelines and other requirements found in CAPR 60-1, CAP Flight Management. Orientation flights will not be credited toward any pilot ratings (solo, private pilot, etc.).
c. Reporting & Reimbursement Process.
(1) The pilot, or the person designated by the wing commander, must record the flight in eServices within 10 days of the flight date. Wings have 30 days to validate the data. See CAPP 52-7 or capmembers.com/cadetflying for more details.
(2) Orientation flights are reimbursed according to the rates published in CAPR 173-3, Payment for Civil Air Patrol Support. Cadets will not pay any amount to receive an orientation flight. Flights may be classified as either corporate / private or military, although only corporate / private flights are reimbursable.
d. Orientation Flights in Military Aircraft. Cadets are authorized to participate in orientation flights in military aircraft. See CAPR 76-1, Travel of CAP Members via Military Aircraft and Use of Military Facilities and Vehicles.


It's unfortunate, but CAP does not provide much in the way of flying for kids. A fact parents remind me of weekly.

[EMT-83]

Powered camp is $1000 for 10 hours of flying.  That's $100/hour, which is more than the hour rate for a CAP aircraft (C172).

The powered flight academies also include room and board for a week, along with ground school. It's nowhere near $100/hour for flying, and compared to any summer camp, it's not a bad deal.

[Thrashed]

Yea, I know, but I can offer flying for about $70/hr at the local squadron and they can stay home and save a little.  I can't believe they make kids interview for a camp they pay for. I won't be sending my kids to any flight camps. 

[davidsinn]

Yea, I know, but I can offer flying for about $70/hr at the local squadron and they can stay home and save a little.  I won't be sending my kids to any flight camps. 

Good for you. Honestly, that's not sarcasm.

I wish I could offer that to my cadets but the nearest F5'd CFI I know of is an hour away by air. I think an ILWG bird might actually be closer than an INWG one, but that's still a ways off and I really don't want to open that can 'o worms of crossing wing boundaries like that.

[helper]

As a former cadet who attended both the glider private and the powered solo; there is more to the flight camps than the cost per hour. We toured aviation museums or other places of interest. Also, there are the friendships and shared experiences.  One of my seniors was a former WAC who knew Earhart. I wish that I had talked more with her. I could list other advantages but, I'm not alone in feeling that way as my son attended the NCSA's and had a great time!

For what its worth, my .02, I'd suggest considering the flying NCSA's as a great introduction to becoming a pilot.     

[Elioron]

They can get their certificate for about 1/2 the normal price.  Still no takers!?

As a father I can tell you that even with such a deal, unless I knew I could have the full amount for my son to get his pilot license from you I wouldn't start. The flight academy is cheaper in one shot and provides a lot more than flight instruction. If it were only flight instruction, there would be no point sending him to the academy.

I would hate to start his training only to run out of funds for him to finish. This may be why parents aren't taking advantage of your offer. Believe me, if I knew I could pay for the total cost I would definitely have my son get his license (there are pilots at my squadron willing to do a similar deal). It would kill me to get his hopes up only to have him disappointed in the end.

[Thrashed]

I'm currently teaching a ground school for 9 people.  5 are cadets. 7 Saturdays for free.

[tsrup]

They can get their certificate for about 1/2 the normal price.  Still no takers!?

As a father I can tell you that even with such a deal, unless I knew I could have the full amount for my son to get his pilot license from you I wouldn't start. The flight academy is cheaper in one shot and provides a lot more than flight instruction. If it were only flight instruction, there would be no point sending him to the academy.

I would hate to start his training only to run out of funds for him to finish. This may be why parents aren't taking advantage of your offer. Believe me, if I knew I could pay for the total cost I would definitely have my son get his license (there are pilots at my squadron willing to do a similar deal). It would kill me to get his hopes up only to have him disappointed in the end.

The sad truth of it all is that it is all dependent on a myriad of things that include or not limited to:
     -The quality of your instructor
     -How fast your son learns
     -How motivated your son is to study
     -The weather
     -The airport
     -Gas prices

The norm seems to be around 70 hrs for a PPL, I lucked out when getting mine (I was a c/Tsgt).  I was paying for it myself, I was on my final semester of HS (the easy one ;P ) and I had a rockstar instructor who was available whenever I was.  I passed my checkride with 41 hours.  Paying for it myself kind of had the effect of not wasting lessons and spending all free time studying.  Started in April, ended in first week of August.  I have seen people burn through medicals in the time it took to complete their PPL.  If your son stays with it consistently, and doesn't give himself time to lose proficiency along the way, he should go rather quick.

This goes to anyone seeking advice on flight training, It is better to save up the money and know that you can bust out the training, than trying to trickle along.  You will end up saving money in the long run, not having to waste lessons regaining proficiency and relearning forgotten material.
And please, stay away from "schools" that conveniently have their own money lending practices.  For a lesson on this on the backs of others, just google "Silver State Helicopters".

Aviation is a wonderful world, but unfortunately there are opportunists out there who like to use the dreams of others to make a quick buck, usually to the detriment of the latter.

[tsrup]

I'm currently teaching a ground school for 9 people.  5 are cadets. 7 Saturdays for free.

That is awesome.

[JeffDG]

I'm currently teaching a ground school for 9 people.  5 are cadets. 7 Saturdays for free.

Free?  Man, getting to talk about airplanes with 9 motivated students is better than any paycheque!