Gear Set-up

[Capt M. Sherrod]

I'm fairly certain similar topics may have been introduced before, however, I am looking for more specific information.

In particular, I am looking for suggestions on specifically how fellow "ground pounders" have set up their gear and what they use to do it.

For example, right now, I am using an LC-1 and LC-2 set up, however I am looking to change / upgrade.  What are the setups for the UDF / 24 Hour / 72 Hour gear.  I am asking from a "best-practices" standpoint.  You may have started out with one setup due to cost and then changed later after you got more "seasoned".  Thank you in advance.

Please note, I realize some of the personalized equipment is specific to area of the country and terrain.  What I am more looking for is the type of vest / lbe / lbv / pack and what is grouped in each pocket.  If you have links to where items were purchased, that would also be greatly appreciated.

[Eclipse]

I started with an ELBV (slanted pockets) moved "up" to the blackhawk tactical gear because I got it at a steal price, and miss my ELBV.

The arguments for the tac vests include them having little to know hanging loose items like the A.L.I.C.E. stuff on an LBV or harness. I concur with that, and found the tac vest snags less in deep forest, but I think the ELBV is more comfortable, especially for those of us on the "high-side of medium". Depending on the hydropack, some tac vests make it easier to integrate the hydro into the vest than an LBV, again, depends on the fit.

And the cost is about 1/4 of a new tac vest.  I got my ELBV on ebay for $25, and the accouterments from various sources - probably was about $50 all total, while the tac vest starts at about $100 just for the vest.

Again, if you go LBV, find thhe ELBV, the slanted pockets do make a difference.

Now for UDF, airshows, and low-impact urban DR, the way to go is the SARMED type vests.  They are light, comfortable, inexpensive and hold about the same as a tac vest.  Easy in /out of a vehicle, and meets the orange vest requirement out the door.

Check here for pics of the vests and some comments about visibility, etc.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1071.0

BTW - the tapes now say "US CIVIL AIR PATROL", because I have better things to do than argue about that...

[Trouble]

I have used almost everything under the sun at one time or another. Right now I am using a Molle 2 FLC with various pouches and a hydro-pack for my 24hr gear and a 3 day pack for my 72 hr gear.  The only down side is the tac vest does not double as an orange vest. Other than that is works real well. 

Just like Eclipse, I use to use a LBV, LBV-88 the older straight pocket version, along with a 2 day pack with a hydro-pack inside.  Frankly I miss my LBV and 2 day pack.  It was the most comfortable practical and useful set up I have ever run.  The current FLC is pretty close but I am still working our the pocket placement and finding the balance between what I need and what i want and what is too much.

Instead of boring you with more personal stories, below is my personal evaluation of the different gear I have used.

LCE/Tac Vests

LC1/2 web gear  -  worked great, especially as a cadet.
Pros:

• was free (issued to me by CAP SQ)
  Allowed orange vest to remain very visable
  completely adjustable
  modular
  plenty of pouch options
  Bomb proof

Cons:

• Alice clips (aka slide keepers), they are heavy and when they brake they brake  and then you loose stuff.
  Did not work well with the waist belt of my field pack
  If using a butt pack it got in the way of an external pack frame.
  tended to snag at times in deep woods.
  

US LBV/ELBV
Pros:

• Most of the same as above.
  Much more comfortable and snagged a lot less than LC2 gear
  Worked better with Field Pack waist belt
  

Cons:

• Left the orange vest a little less visible than the LC2 gear but not by much.
  most of the cons of the LC2 gear
  

USAF Aircrew survival Vest
Pros:

• Losts of pockets
  Comfortable
  easy in/out with vehicles

Cons:

• Puts all the weight in the front
  Would have to modify to add a pouch for a CAP Hand held Radio.
  orange vest had to be worn over top making it  hard to get to pockets.
  

British issue PLCE Soldier '95 Webbing (aka Belt order) This is the Second best rig I have ever run.
Pros:

• Lost of room to carry gear (this had huge pouches)
  Waist belt could be adjusted down once on, like a Backpack.
  comfortable
  Bomb Proof X 2
  

Cons:

• Heavier than US issue gear
  Did not work well with external frame packs at all.
  shoulder harness ( Yoke) lacked D-ring attachment points to hang stuff
  

Sabre Industries - Trooper Chest Vest. (I ordered this from "sabre industries" A British based gear manufacture back in 2001.  I believe that company has since gone out of business) This is based on the Prometheus - kayak assault Vest.

This vest works great for vehicle ops, and hasty searches but lacks the carry capacity for long term heavy searches. Also worked very well with an Alice pack but not as well with some other internal frame packs.  I still have this in my closet because as I said i think this company is out of business and this is a unique piece of gear and probably the most Bomb proof vest I have ever owned.

Arktis - Noorlose (NL) Vest & Advanced Chest Rig
Pros:

• Comfortable (the advanced Chest Rig is most comfortable)
  A Combination of web gear and Vest
  Lost of room for gear
  holds enough for a 24hr Op.
  the NL vest is completely adjustable, the Adv. Chest Rig not as much.
  Adv. Chest Rig is very comfortable with almost any Pack.
  

Cons:

• not place to add additional pouches
  NL Vest is not as comfortable with a pack as I like, though it is not any worse than LC2 gear.
  Depending on one's size it might snag too much in deep woods.
  the Adv. Chest Rig does not have any attachment points on the sh

oulders.


Molle 1 FLC - This vest sucks!  They re-designed it for a reason.


Molle 2 FLC
Pros:

• Fits like an Aircrew vest and wears like an ELBV.
  Is very comfortable. Works the best with a Field pack.
  Lost of real estate to place pouches were you want / need them.
  Good support straps.
  NO ALICE Clips!
  

Cons:

• Easy to overload by adding too many pouches.
  internal map pockets could be better designed and have better closures
  Pricier than other gear options unless you get a steal of a deal on it. ( which is the only reason I have my current set of it)  though after using it I would find it hard to go back to other set ups.

Hope this is helpful.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Thank you, that was helpful. 

It looks like I am going to have to settle with some of the "free" gear that I have right now.  I am adding a Camelback Ambush to the set up for the 24.  I will be using the Ambush for my strictly UDF missions and adding the LC-1 with butt pack and M-16 pouches for the 24hr.  I still have a large Alice Pack for the 72 hr.  I am not quite sure what the best way to attach everything is going to be if I have to do any long "ruck marches", but I'll figure it out. 

If anyone else has any set-ups that worked well for them, I am still very interested in learning.  I'll probably be adding / changing / upgrading my equipment as I get money and time / experience in the field.

[Michael]

I'm a new GTM 3 and am looking to upgrade my 24 hr gear system. 

Right now I'm using the old style LBE with shoulder harness and pistol belt.  Seriously considering a rugged North Face backpack, this has been reccommended by a Hawk Mt. grad.  Is this worth the money, and will I be able to function properly with it in real situations, such as Hawk?

[_]

I used a backpack for a while and had 2 things that bugged me.  I didn't like having all of the weight concentrated on my back which had the tendency of trying to pull me backwards whenever climbing over fallen trees, rocks, etc.  On a trail the pack worked fine but off trail it sucked.  I also didn't like having limited access to gear.  Whenever I went to get something I'd usually had to pull the pack off.  I eventually went back to the pistol belt and suspenders combo.  Before buying an expensive pack I'd say get a cheep one and try it out.  If you happen to have an REI near you, you may be able to rent the pack and try it out before spending the money.

[Thor]

Set it up however it works best for you. 
I started out with a combination of the LC1/2 Y harness and pistol belt loaded with pouches (free), an SV-2 survival vest, and a backpack from WalMart. This worked pretty good. Then I upgraded to a Blackhawk vest, a 2L Camelbak, and a small backpack. Just keep in mind that you want the weight of your gear distributed somewhat evenly, and that everything should be secure (no loose items that will snag).
I lucked out like Eclipse and got a pretty good Blackhawk vest for an extremely low price. If you can find a deal like that, go for it, but don't spend hundreds on a vest that you will  only use from time to time. Vests are nice because they give you easy access to most of your gear, eliminating the need to take your pack off every time you need to get something.
You can find a lot of good deals on vests and other gear on the net. Some of the popular sites are www.cheaperthandirt.com, www.rangerjoes.com, www.brigadeqm.com. I personally have also bought a lot of my gear from Ebay. If you hunt around, you can find some good deals on gear that would cost a lot more on retail sites.

[Michael]

Can anyone comment on the M.U.L.E. camelbak?

[Walkman]

My gear is set around a CFP-90 pack. This was the issue pack between the ALICE and MOLLE.

What I like about it is that the system uses a smaller detachable patrol pack with a larger internal-frame pack. I have all of my basic  24 hour and survival gear in the patrol pack. Great for your basic GTM3 stuff. Then I used the main frame pack for the rest of my 72 hour gear and attach the patrol pack to for a full set. It's a very efficient system IMO.

Both packs have a spot for a hydration bladder, too.

[BigMojo]

Can anyone comment on the M.U.L.E. camelbak?

I have one...great for UDF work, but, it really doesn't fit full 24hr gear, along with the bladder being full. But for carrying the basics, It's very comfortable and practical.

[Stonewall]

A plus to vests is you can wear them while in a vehicle and still use a seatbelt.  However, throwing an orange vest can hamper getting into the pouches unless you wear it under your tac vest.  I still say the CamelBak BFM is the Bee's knees as far as a 24hr pack with more than adequate water supply.  -did this from my cell phone.

[JAFO78]

A plus to vests is you can wear them while in a vehicle and still use a seatbelt.  However, throwing an orange vest can hamper getting into the pouches unless you wear it under your tac vest.  I still say the CamelBak BFM is the Bee's knees as far as a 24hr pack with more than adequate water supply.


  -did this from my cell phone.

Show off............

[brasda91]

A plus to vests is you can wear them while in a vehicle and still use a seatbelt.  However, throwing an orange vest can hamper getting into the pouches unless you wear it under your tac vest.  I still say the CamelBak BFM is the Bee's knees as far as a 24hr pack with more than adequate water supply.  -did this from my cell phone.

I was looking at the BFM.  One of my co-workers has one and I felt like it was too big.  How do you carry it and the 72hr gear?  I'm looking to change my set-up and I think the CFP-90 is what I'm going to go with.

[Michael]

I just used the Camelbak Transformer at the Winter Ranger School.  It fits all the day gear perfectly, and accepts the attachment of a hard hat well.

[SAR-EMT1]

I am currently using the Medium Alice for my base gear and a
buttpack/web harness setup for my 24 hour/UDF gear.
I think it works fine.

However I am going to be upgrading to the CPF 90 for for my gear: base in the ruck, 24/UDF in the ' patrol pack '
( if I can still wear a buttpack with the CPF 90 I'll use it for BLS / first aid items.  )

[brasda91]

I just got home a few minutes ago and there is a big box on the front porch, which I'm guessing is my new (used) CFP-90!!    Gotta go repack.  Don't you just love presents in Feb?!!

[DNall]

Anybody tight with their state director might want to go take a look on DRMS right now. There's a whole ton of "A" class field gear avail at fairly accessible locations. Least there was a few days ago. I put that out around here & hadn't heard of anybody moving on it yet.

[gistek]

For a while I used a fairly large hiking pack that had an internal frame, a clip to hold the straps together, and a hip belt. It was very easy to carry. The weight was well distributed between hips and shoulders. To keep things easily accessed, I used various smaller bags and containers loaded in the order I anticipated needing them. The bag was large enough to hold everything except my tent and foam pad. When I needed to bring them, I tied them to rings available on the back of the pack.

The main disadvantages were the size and the inability to access some items during the drive to the mission.

I have since switched to a regular backpack - with the strap clip, and a fanny-pack. The fanny pack carries everything I need for base work. This means it is easy to keep it close at hand in the van as well. My overnight equipment, including most of my food, is in the backpack. I manage the sleeping bag issue by changing from a "regular" sleeping bag to a bag liner plus space-blanket bag system. The bag liner by itself is perfect for when we have "deluxe" accomodations (like the local fire hall or church fellowship hall) When tent camping, the space-blanket outer bag is good down below freezing. (Yes, I've used it for winter camping, and had to open the top of the space blanket because it was too warm. And it snowed that night.)

I still have to tie my tent and foam mat on the outside of the backpack, but that's no biggie.

The fanny pack helps distribute some of the backpack weight from my shoulders to my hips, and is much better for around the base camp than a full pack.

[N Harmon]

I was looking at the BFM.  [...]  How do you carry it and the 72hr gear?

My BFM is my 72 hour pack, and I attach my 24hr web gear to it using the existing retention straps. During winter I strap my bag, pad, and tent to the outside of the pack, and in the summer I just pack a nice hammock.

Here are some photos of my gear sans my replacement butt pack I'm still waiting for:

[JayT]

I was looking at the BFM.  [...]  How do you carry it and the 72hr gear?

My BFM is my 72 hour pack, and I attach my 24hr web gear to it using the existing retention straps. During winter I strap my bag, pad, and tent to the outside of the pack, and in the summer I just pack a nice hammock.

Here are some photos of my gear sans my replacement butt pack I'm still waiting for:

How do you attach the fartsack and tent and stuff? I brought a BFM years ago, but I've only used it for sort of........lets call it a 36 hour pack.

[davidsinn]

How do you attach the fartsack and tent and stuff? I brought a BFM years ago, but I've only used it for sort of........lets call it a 36 hour pack.

What do you need a tent for? I learned years ago as a Boy Scout to not carry a tent. A tarp, some rope and a couple of stakes are all you need.

[Jolt]

My gear setup consists of whatever I could find in the squadron supply room and a few purchased items (as far as storage devices).  The bulk of my 24 hr gear is in my LBE/buttpack.  I've got all of the essentials on that pack, and then I have a modified ALICE pack (I took the frame completely off) that I threw a few extra 24 hr gear items in and pretty much all of the BLS stuff that the rest of the ground team wanted.

If I'm ever doing training or your basic DFing, I wear just the LBE, but I throw on the ALICE pack any other time.

[N Harmon]

How do you attach the fartsack and tent and stuff? I brought a BFM years ago, but I've only used it for sort of........lets call it a 36 hour pack.

I use the loops that are on the bottom. I roll my pad over my sleeping bag and store all of it in a waterproof sack. That straps to the bottom loops. The tent rolls up and gets strapped to the MOLLE loops right below my cap/name tapes.

In the summer I forgo all of that in favor of a nice hammock.

[AL1EN]

I too am looking to rework my gear, and was wondering if anyone has tried the Blade-Tech pilot's vest - looks like a tac medic vest with a pack attached to the back i/o attachment webbing, but it IS mesh, like a tac vest.  Any opinions on this gear (I know - it's pretty pricey...)?

http://www.blade-tech.com/Pilot-Survival-Vest-pr-987.html

Thanks,
C Julien
2nd Lt. CAP

[maverik]

Iam wanting to know if this is a good set up I have a

for my 24 and a MOLLE 3 day assault vest I was wondering if I should keep it the same set up or if I should stick my 24 and 72 in my 3 day pack the main focuse here is HAWK mountain and mild to severe terrain and DR missions.

[Stonewall]

Iam wanting to know if this is a good set up I have a

for my 24 and a MOLLE 3 day assault vest I was wondering if I should keep it the same set up or if I should stick my 24 and 72 in my 3 day pack the main focuse here is HAWK mountain and mild to severe terrain and DR missions.

Only one way to find out, use it.  What works for me may not work for the next guy.  I know lots of people who carry no LBE or Web Gear; just a 3-day pack.

[Michael]

Iam wanting to know if this is a good set up I have a

for my 24 and a MOLLE 3 day assault vest I was wondering if I should keep it the same set up or if I should stick my 24 and 72 in my 3 day pack the main focuse here is HAWK mountain and mild to severe terrain and DR missions.

Vests are somewhat frowned upon on the Mountain, but it's really all about what's comfortable for you.

  :clap: I used a Camelbak Transformer (very similar to yours) at Winter School, and it worked fine.

[Stonewall]

:clap: I used a Camelbak Transformer (very similar to yours) at Winter School, and it worked fine.

When I went to Winter Hawk my tube froze.

Lesson learned.  Sleep with camelbak to keep it from freezing.

[Duke Dillio]

I've had a lot of gear over the years.  I've done the LBE and the LBV thing a couple of times but the pockets were so deep, I couldn't really access anything.  Then I found this thing:

http://www.labsafety.com/store/Public_Safety/EMS/Gear_Bags_-_Cases/38178/

It's $71.00 plus shipping and handling which is fairly cheap for this type of gear.  Add a $35 backpack from Wal-mart with a pocket for your hydration bladder and you are all set.  This makes up my 24 hour gear.  I carry all the standard stuff they want you to carry and added a couple items.

First, for shelter, I have two military style ponchos.  I also got two sets of the bungee cords from Ranger Joe's and a couple of stakes (bright orange).  I added a VS-17 panel to the pack and carry about 15 chem lights of various colors.  I tend to hit up the dollar stores for most of my disposable gear which keeps the costs low.  Wal-mart, Ranger Joe's, and eBay are probably your best sources for cheap gear, although certain things that I carry I can only find at Ranger Joe's, like the Staedler alcohol markers I carry for map work.  I'll post some pics of my gear in a little bit.  Gotta find my digital camera....

[DNall]

• Alice clips (aka slide keepers), they are heavy and when they brake they brake  and then you loose stuff.

Just wanted to note on this point...

1) Taking them on/off a lot, being rough w/ gear, and getting really old can wear out clips, but otherwise they are very good & not heavy.

2) You're rigging your gear wrong. You are supposed to secure the item with 550 cord. Insert thru the ring at top of the clip, and around back of the pistol belt to form a keeper. It should hold the clip closed & lengthen its life for one thing, and if it does break then your item will remain affixed and usable by the cord.

Likewise, you canteens should have a just shorter than leg length of 550 cord attached to the belt & looped around the mouth of the canteen. This allows you to drink from it, but not lose if it falls out & won't drag the ground on the dangle.

Also, ALL lose adjustment straps should be rolled up & taped securely.

I'm going to have to find my camera & go thru my gear with a less on this stuff at some point. This is one of those things that isn't in the book but everyone is expected to do.

[JayT]

How do you attach the fartsack and tent and stuff? I brought a BFM years ago, but I've only used it for sort of........lets call it a 36 hour pack.

I use the loops that are on the bottom. I roll my pad over my sleeping bag and store all of it in a waterproof sack. That straps to the bottom loops. The tent rolls up and gets strapped to the MOLLE loops right below my cap/name tapes.

In the summer I forgo all of that in favor of a nice hammock.

Pics?

[ka8yiu]

I know this is an old thread, but  SDS (Specialty Defense Systems), the maker of the MOLLE FLC system, have a Super FLC that is way better then the FLC 1 or 2. Check out their website www.specialtydefense.com if you like the FLC system.  I have one for GT use, but haven't taken the step yet. I am still a hardcore aircrew member. I just can't keep my feet on the ground!

Molle 1 FLC - This vest sucks!  They re-designed it for a reason.


Molle 2 FLC
Pros:

• Fits like an Aircrew vest and wears like an ELBV.
  Is very comfortable. Works the best with a Field pack.
  Lost of real estate to place pouches were you want / need them.
  Good support straps.
  NO ALICE Clips!
  

Cons:

• Easy to overload by adding too many pouches.
  internal map pockets could be better designed and have better closures
  Pricier than other gear options unless you get a steal of a deal on it. ( which is the only reason I have my current set of it)  though after using it I would find it hard to go back to other set ups.

Hope this is helpful.
[/quote]

[RC007]

My current setup is as follows

24hr Gear- Enhanced LBV with buttpack and 2 ALICE M16 mag pouches on the pistol belt. Walmart knockoff "Outdoor Adventures" Camelbak.
72hr Gear- Medium ALICE with somewhat new frame, LC2 woodland straps, and waist pad with QR buckle. My sleeping bag attaches to the bottom of the pack. and my sleeping pad/tent fit on top of the pack flap.

[Noble Six]

Check out http://www.botachtactical.com/ its where i get all my gear in coyote tan.  Sometimes there is a bit  of a wait to receive your items, but with what  you're paying its worth it.