Comm Truck

[Major Lord]

I had an "Airporter" style 24 PX bus given to me by a church. Most of its windows had been shot out, but we replaced the side windows with plexiglass and the windshield with a used one from the auto glass store outside Travis ( Great deals on windows by the way-a typical new Windshield there is less than 175.00 installed) We yanked most of the seats out, and had a cabinet shop build a 9 foot counter-top for a desk. Although it was all done with personal funds from a few S/M's, it was great for doing remote cadet activities as a mobile office and staff bar and grill. As a SAR resource it was pointless, but it was nice to have for activities and transporting lots of gear. We had to get rid of it since there was no place to park it, and it was too old to be accepted by CAP as a formally donated vehicle. The Forest Service has it now......We had a VHF mobile radio, an Inmarsat phone, and a laptop computer and printer, all running from deep cycle marine batteries charging off the vehicle power. Crude, but effective.....

Major Lord

[Spaceman3750]

Couldn't we do the vast majority of what we need for comms on even the most intensive of missions using a small trailer for storage, a generator, and a command tent? In fact, that seems like a preferable option because there's a smaller footprint when not in use and it's way more versatile (you could get it up narrow roads behind a truck that RVs would be way too wide to go up)

[Eclipse]

We use the Albatross for encampment and air shows, etc., it looks pretty nice (from 30 feet0, but also has the downside of giving the
impression that it is a "typical" vehicle in CAP - then a member gets to the "real" squadron and finds they don't even have a radio, let alone an MCP trailer.

Did you have to have a CDL to drive a buss in your state?  Our requires that.

This is the other issue with these vehicles - everyone assumes the "guy" who can drive it will always be around.
A 12-15 pax van with a 12+ foot trailer is not something you average CSM is going to be able to just hop in and drive, same goes for the
RV's and more specialized vehicles.

[Eclipse]

Couldn't we do the vast majority of what we need for comms on even the most intensive of missions using a small trailer for storage, a generator, and a command tent? In fact, that seems like a preferable option because there's a smaller footprint when not in use and it's way more versatile (you could get it up narrow roads behind a truck that RVs would be way too wide to go up)

Yep - even the trailer is unnecessary - just a nice, go-box and an igloo-sized generator, which I have now seen for like $100 (yeah, I know they are junk).

The trouble is that people don't build for the "real one", they build for the "big one", I've done it myself, which results in lots of gear we never use.  The reality is that most small missions, even DR, can be run out of a decent SUV or CAP van, and the bigger ones usually have FEMA or other support and infrastructure onsight.

CAP does not need to bring much in themselves.

[JC004]

Yet another thing that I have to find and get together.  When I did wing comm stuff, the wing DOK was feeling inspired and wanted a proposal for comm vehicles.  I did an outline and collected a set of pictures.  I will try to find it.  I've got a ton of crap that I want to find for people.  I keep thinking that I'll get to it soon and then get caught up in doing something different - mostly for work. 

My philosophy behind this type of vehicle was and would be to make it as multi-purpose as possible so that it could be used as a command vehicle, just for comm, or whatever depending on the mission. 

One resource that I used when I did this was looking at what hams do.  I'd look for some ham projects online and see how they might apply.  The other thing (that I hadn't considered before) would be maybe using Arduino (open source hardware) as a platform to build some cool stuff that could be very useful.  If you have people who are good with homemade electronics, that could be a great way to go.  I also remember looking at Instructables.com for ideas.  I'm not sure if I came up with anything.  I'll try to get cracking on finding all these files so they can actually be useful.

[Spaceman3750]

Couldn't we do the vast majority of what we need for comms on even the most intensive of missions using a small trailer for storage, a generator, and a command tent? In fact, that seems like a preferable option because there's a smaller footprint when not in use and it's way more versatile (you could get it up narrow roads behind a truck that RVs would be way too wide to go up)

Yep - even the trailer is unnecessary - just a nice, go-box and an igloo-sized generator, which I have now seen for like $100 (yeah, I know they are junk).

The trouble is that people don't build for the "real one", they build for the "big one", I've done it myself, which results in lots of gear we never use.  The reality is that most small missions, even DR, can be run out of a decent SUV or CAP van, and the bigger ones usually have FEMA or other support and infrastructure onsight.

CAP does not need to bring much in themselves.

You make a good point. If we're worried about being equipped for "the big one", an MOU with FEMA or a state/local EMA that says "When we have our 'big one', you'll loan us your MCP, and when you have your 'big one', we'll loan you warm bodies, vans, and planes". That doesn't cost us nearly as much as a $500,000 MCP/comm truck and provides the basis for a valuable inter-agency partnership.

[Eclipse]

One resource that I used when I did this was looking at what hams do.

Living in their mom's basement?   

I'd look for some ham projects online and see how they might apply.  The other thing (that I hadn't considered before) would be maybe using Arduino (open source hardware) as a platform to build some cool stuff that could be very useful.  If you have people who are good with homemade electronics, that could be a great way to go.  I also remember looking at Instructables.com for ideas.  I'm not sure if I came up with anything.  I'll try to get cracking on finding all these files so they can actually be useful.

Using home-grown stuff is dangerous from the standpoint that no one else knows how it works, can repair it, or (usually) replace the function onsite.

Big-button, off-the-shelf stuff is usually better.

I always find it amusing when Comm guys want 12 radios for every spectrum, including HAM equipment, when they know that the odds
of ever speaking to anyone but other CAP radios approaches zero.  Again "just in case".

[JWilson]

Lets get one of these:
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m170.php3
American Made. Military styling. Back country ready. Cool factor that the Comm/Command trailer/buses/campers
don't have.

I have no idea if it is best for technology. But, its cooler by a mile. Even the  black bears would be intimidated. And if they're not  or they are
grizzlies then throw one of these in the mix... an MRAP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MaxxPro_in_Iraq.jpg

We'll need a card with a high credit line to run through the gas in the MRAP.

Do... want MRAP... nothing says "get rescued" like light armor

[JC004]

One resource that I used when I did this was looking at what hams do.

Living in their mom's basement?   

No comment.

I'd look for some ham projects online and see how they might apply.  The other thing (that I hadn't considered before) would be maybe using Arduino (open source hardware) as a platform to build some cool stuff that could be very useful.  If you have people who are good with homemade electronics, that could be a great way to go.  I also remember looking at Instructables.com for ideas.  I'm not sure if I came up with anything.  I'll try to get cracking on finding all these files so they can actually be useful.

Using home-grown stuff is dangerous from the standpoint that no one else knows how it works, can repair it, or (usually) replace the function onsite.

Big-button, off-the-shelf stuff is usually better.

I always find it amusing when Comm guys want 12 radios for every spectrum, including HAM equipment, when they know that the odds
of ever speaking to anyone but other CAP radios approaches zero.  Again "just in case".

Nothing I build for my office and such is ever an issue.  I have about 150 volunteers at my organization - most of them old/retired.  We factor this in and always consider simplicity as one of the core elements of designing technology-based solutions.  Our systems work well and help a lot.  The same issues we have apply directly to CAP - a substantial number of older/retired volunteers, the fact that they are volunteers who spend a limited amount of time with us and have other obligations, the necessity for the systems to be quickly learned and applied in order to get people in and set up as quickly as possible, etc.

w00t!  I found some of the stuff that I did before.  I'm trying to cut/paste it into one document, update a couple things, and I'll post it later.  I thought that I had lost it (and a lot of other stuff) because I plugged in one of my external HDDs to look for it and the computer couldn't read it for some reason.  I had a back-up drive, though.

[Rescue826]

The grant is IECGP  (Interoperable Emergency Communications Grant Program)  Its administered at the State Level.  It has to be used to build interoperability communications systems or training.... I happen to have an inn for my wing to possible get this grant.

90% of federal grants are awarded to the State.  You have to be an active part of the state, and recognized by them to even be considered.

I totally disagree with some who say we don't need such a capability.  First off we try to gain trust and respect from other agencies that we work with.  Who would you prefer to work with, a organization that cobbles radios together in a make shift ammo can, or a real deal professional communications platform that can communicate with all agencies?

What happens after a CAT 4 hurricane and all your CAP facilities are gone?  How do you setup Command and control quickly?

What if you need comm support in the middle of nowhere, were there is no CAP facility?

$300,000 can get us a professional build 24 - 30' command post fully equipped with the comm gear we need.
$100,000 can be reserved for PM and operations.


As a real world - high level public Safety Commo guy, I will say that if we cant talk to the others we work with , we wont have a place in the game for much longer.
We need to be able to talk to our own, plus everyone else. This starts long before the incident.... in a planning and cooperation between agencies.

I will also say that in FL the CAP has on every disaster deployment since '02 had the need to communicate with several different agencies on their freq and systems. 

[Rescue826]

Couldn't we do the vast majority of what we need for comms on even the most intensive of missions using a small trailer for storage, a generator, and a command tent? In fact, that seems like a preferable option because there's a smaller footprint when not in use and it's way more versatile (you could get it up narrow roads behind a truck that RVs would be way too wide to go up)

Yep - even the trailer is unnecessary - just a nice, go-box and an igloo-sized generator, which I have now seen for like $100 (yeah, I know they are junk).

The trouble is that people don't build for the "real one", they build for the "big one", I've done it myself, which results in lots of gear we never use.  The reality is that most small missions, even DR, can be run out of a decent SUV or CAP van, and the bigger ones usually have FEMA or other support and infrastructure onsight.

CAP does not need to bring much in themselves.

Are you kidding me?      "CAP does not need to bring much in themselves."   The problem is we have always "mooched" off other organizations to support us. If we are going to play with the big boys, then we have to be self sufficient!    FEMA only supports themselves.  The MERS detachments WILL NOT support anyone but their own teams...not sure why everybody thinks FEMA is magically going to appear and give us everything we need.  We are continually loosing credability because we have this mindset.  Wake up guys....we have to be totally self sufficient!

[Eclipse]

...we have to be totally self sufficient!

100% incorrect - no one is self-sufficient anymore, and certainly not self-funded volunteers being called in days after the real "poop".

Katrina - camping in the EOC with meals and infrastructure provided by the military and civilian agencies as part of a coordinated effort.
Kentucky - billeting reimbursed at locak hotels, meals and infrastructure provide by the KYNG.

Every major real-world I have been involved in was supported or directed by another agency, with the ARC usually handing a big piece.

We are not a lead agency, we are a tertiary support resource and therefore have no need for self-sufficiency.

[Rescue826]

Okay, maybe they got their meals provided, but it was worked out before they deployed. We cant go into a situation and expect that we will get everything we need.

[NJMEDIC]

Anybody see the Delaware State Wing Commo Truck. The Delaware State Police donated it WOW

[whatevah]

I helped set up a bit of the DEWG truck. Not a bad setup, but terribly underused. Just didn't really have the need.  It was only used on one actual SAR that I know of, and only because it happened to be in use as a command post for a special event where the IC was also at. Used primarily as a CAP command post for special events and supported the Middle East Region SAR College a couple times.   As I recall, we actually bought it from the state when they finally upgraded, they didn't donate it.

I posted some info on it way back when... http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=82.0   the photos are gone, but I'll post up some tomorrow.

[sarmed1]

I have found both in the CAP world of things and in the civilain fire/ems/LE world a ginormous rolling RV command post is a PITA.  It seems that there is never anywhere close enough to the rest of your operation that is convenient to park it.  Or your incident has so many other players that it is not big enough to use as a useful command post.   You dont have enough free help that is qualified to drive it from point a-b-c. And most importantly if your vehicle takes a crap your entire capability is dead in the water

I think that kind of money potential is better spent on developing a deployable and modular/expandable comm/incident management capability.  That way you can set up as a stand alone facility or move things into a hardened/durable site if available.

Things such as preconfigured radio sets, antrenna towers, tents, generators, tables, chairs, dry errrase boards, heating & air conditioning units, light sets, charger banks, portable radios, computers, cots, field stove etc etc.

A transportable vehicle is also an option (like the small U-haul truck...van or pick up chassis) or small trailers (they are easier to tow for the inexpereinced than one of those giant race type) and you can stage them around your area (ie 3 small C3 functions rather than 1 big one all with the same grant money)

mk

[ammotrucker]

100% incorrect - no one is self-sufficient anymore, and certainly not self-funded volunteers being called in days after the real "poop".

Katrina - camping in the EOC with meals and infrastructure provided by the military and civilian agencies as part of a coordinated effort.
Kentucky - billeting reimbursed at locak hotels, meals and infrastructure provide by the KYNG.

Every major real-world I have been involved in was supported or directed by another agency, with the ARC usually handing a big piece.

We are not a lead agency, we are a tertiary support resource and therefore have no need for self-sufficiency.

While, your state and your way of assistence may proclude any portion of CAP being self-sufficient, YOU can not stand on the fact that we are required in some wings to be self sufficent.  So throw that 100% incorrect out, as YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU  are babbling about.  It is written into many area of my operating agreements with the WING I am invovled with that we MUST BE SELF-Sufficient

[Eclipse]

Cite.

[IceNine]

Self-Sufficient is a great theory but an impractical to execute.

Sure you can pack a tent and bring in some MRE's maybe pack a few bottles of water.  But is that really "self" sufficient or marginally acceptable living conditions.

The reason that these agencies provide the best lodging, food, etc possible is to ensure the morale of the responders.  I've never been to anything including real world SAR that the ARC wasn't giving us food and some other local agency wasn't providing hard shelter.  Hard shelter has been anything from the floor at the park visitors center to hotels just outside the AOR.

You should always go in with the expectation of sleeping on the ground and eating your own meals for the first few days but outside of that self sufficient turns to eating out of the Nat Guard Truck or at the fire station or etc.

[ammotrucker]

Cite.

Not that you can check them.

State of Florida, Standard Operating Procedures for RECON, Page 6, Section III, para C, sub 3 "RECON Teams will be capable of remaining self sufficient for up to 96 hours from deployment time."

Which FLWG is a primary asset partner along with Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission  and Florida National Guard.  As the primary responders.

Secondly the State also supplies training monies and support to accomplish this mission of Self-Sufficiency.  So how I or you would spend that money may differ, It does not mean that we will be housed by, supplied by or transported by any other agency other then ourselfs.  Though there may be other primary asset partners envolved that does not mean that they will also at the location that we are assigned to, so the need for Self-sufficiency is required.

And while you so freq throw out the word "Cite" why don't you Cite anywhere that it states that we "DO not", "WILL NOT" CAN NOT be self-sufficient.

Again, I believe that you operate in a vacuum and may or may not care. Or if you just like to stir out discontent

Yes I believe that it is costly to have utilize and maintain a COMM vehicle, I believe in areas it is be advantagous to have.  Yes to a point I believe that we could accomplish more with limited funds and "GO-pack" 

But, I believe this tread is asking IF you had the money to build, NOT weather it is neccesary to build.