New Hunter Orange Hunting Vest-Pack with CAP 24 HR minimum gear capability.

[Eclipse]

Tim says I should have it tomorrow, here's a few pics of a CG PLB in a radio holster, which is comparable to an EFJ Handheld (i.e. the mortgage payment).  I'm not sure this is how I would set it up - I would probably put nametapes or a flightbadge on the right and a radio holder on the left Velcro, since I'm guessing everything will fit in the pouches.

The hip radio pouch might cause issues getting in and out of vehicles.

We'll see soon.

[Eclipse]

My nice UPS lady just dropped it off, sadly I have to run out the door and then get ready for a unit visit
tonight, so I can't play with it until at least tomorrow.

First impressions are that it is well made and thought out, though it may be a little small for someone as tall as I am (of course I tried it
on right out of the box!).  There should be no issue fitting the full 24+ into the pockets and pack.

I'll take it with me tonight and let the members at the meeting fondle it and get their comments to include in my review.

[Walkman]

...let the members at the meeting fondle it...

Boy, does sure represent us gear hounds vividly, doesn't it?   

[Legion023]

That is a great vest. Now lets see how well it works for SAR use.

[tdepp]

Let's recap:
IDWG finds missing person, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, uniform, backpack, backpack, uniform, uniform, uniform.

Just a reminder.  How about the IDWG finding that person?!  You know, doing what CAP does well?  And saving a life? Well done!

But we'd rather complain about uniforms and hats and colors.  Wearing orange in the woods seems like a good idea to me if you want to be spotted.  So wear a freaking orange vest and talk your squadron CC into allowing orange caps.   

Judas H. Priest people, I can't believe the desire for form over function at times on CT. 

[IceNine]

You are way in the wrong thread

Search this one and find the word Idaho, I'll send you a quarter for each one (excluding your misplaced rant of course)

I'd probably extend that same offer for the word uniform, but we'll see.

How did the fondling go Eclipse?  I can't wait for the big reveal.

[Walkman]

Point taken about the uniform threads, but this is different.

This is gear with a capital G. Gear is fun. Everyone loves getting new toys at Christmas! It's a good thing I have a family with a budget, 'cause if I were single, I'd spend every extra cent I have on cool new GEAR. Have you seen the shot of Stonewall's garage?

All joking aside, though, these gear discussions are truly useful to the mission. Whether we're helping a newer cadet get their first 24 hour pack (for the umteenth time), or helping some learn about a more efficient way to work, it helps the mission. Being uncomfortable on hour 2 of a 4-hour GT sortie is a bad thing. That person will not execute the mission as well as if their gear is tight and comfy. I've saved money and been much more comfortable in the field by learning from others on this forum.

And getting new gear is fun.

[Legion023]

Point taken about the uniform threads, but this is different.

This is gear with a capital G. Gear is fun. Everyone loves getting new toys at Christmas! It's a good thing I have a family with a budget, 'cause if I were single, I'd spend every extra cent I have on cool new GEAR. Have you seen the shot of Stonewall's garage?

All joking aside, though, these gear discussions are truly useful to the mission. Whether we're helping a newer cadet get their first 24 hour pack (for the umteenth time), or helping some learn about a more efficient way to work, it helps the mission. Being uncomfortable on hour 2 of a 4-hour GT sortie is a bad thing. That person will not execute the mission as well as if their gear is tight and comfy. I've saved money and been much more comfortable in the field by learning from others on this forum.

And getting new gear is fun.

Affirmative and Amen!   

[tdepp]

Point taken about the uniform threads, but this is different.

This is gear with a capital G. Gear is fun. Everyone loves getting new toys at Christmas! It's a good thing I have a family with a budget, 'cause if I were single, I'd spend every extra cent I have on cool new GEAR. Have you seen the shot of Stonewall's garage?

All joking aside, though, these gear discussions are truly useful to the mission. Whether we're helping a newer cadet get their first 24 hour pack (for the umteenth time), or helping some learn about a more efficient way to work, it helps the mission. Being uncomfortable on hour 2 of a 4-hour GT sortie is a bad thing. That person will not execute the mission as well as if their gear is tight and comfy. I've saved money and been much more comfortable in the field by learning from others on this forum.

And getting new gear is fun.

Hey, no one likes gear more than me.  Love the army/navy surplus store and all the online places to drool over new ground team and aircrew items.

But I've never heard so much discussion about "what to wear" outside of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and Project Runway.  I think I'll see if I can get a license from NHQ and Conde Nast and start "Vogue: CAP" and feature the latest in "what's in/what's out" (or "auch ya/nicht-nicht") for Civil Air Patrol fashions.  My first issue? "Orange: Trendy Woodsy Life Saver or Fashion Faux Pas?"

Maybe Bruno Gehard is looking for an executive editor position where he can apply his skills.  He did go to boot camp for a bit. 

[Walkman]

In the instance of this particular thread on this particular forum, "what to wear" could make a big difference and is well within the definition of a good thread. I agree that the uniform threads get kinda crazy here, but not all discussions about "things to wear are unproductive".

Case in point: My first GT 24 hour pack was the day pack from a USAF CFP-90 system that I bought here. I found that with the pack's shape that the straps were a bit uncomfortable after a while, which effects how well I'm paying attention on a GT sortie. I also didn't like having to take my pack off and dig through it to get to anything. If the vest/pack in this thread shows to be more comfortable by virtue of it's shape, positioning and adjustments, and allows me to have some of the more important items more accessible, then my mission effectiveness can improve.

If I'm dinking with my pack because it's been digging into my shoulder for an hour and happen to miss the kid's inhaler on the ground...

[SarDragon]

And for the REAL Geardos:

[stillamarine]

If this is the same Blade Tech that maks holsters than I'm sure it will be pretty high quality.  I know a bunch of LEOs with my dept that have duty holsters by them and I've dreamed of one for a long time lol.

[Eclipse]

How did the fondling go Eclipse?  I can't wait for the big reveal.

Very well, in fact better than I expected, and the nice thing was that the perps were active GT's and outside ES people.

I have a couple questions for Tim, and am hoping to get the out-of-box review done today.

And yes, this is the same Bladetech - the vest came wit a catalog of all sorts of things I have no use for but now must have!

[Eclipse]

One more day, promise.

I am putting together a full review including repacking everything, etc., so its somewhat of an undertaking, but
it'll be comprehensive, I promise.

Will have plenty of pics.

[Eclipse]

OK - this was a lot of fun and the more I played with this vest, the better it got.  I kept finding
neat little features that show the thought and care that was put into the design.

First, here it what it would be replacing from my go-box:

For most UDF work, air shows, and poking around base staff, these SARMeds work pretty well.  They are comfortable, fairly inexpensive, and good for for in/out of vehicles.   I know several people who have the full 24-hour kit packed in there, but how they can sit in a vehicle is beyond me, and these vests have nothing built into them to accommodate a hydro-bladder, etc., so its usually a canteen belt or water bottles in the BDU pockets.

I don't generally count the way I wear this as "full-24".

For more rugged situations and full bivouacs, I have a Blackhawk tactical vest:

The combination of the large pockets and added butt-pack leave plenty of room for everything,
and all the Molle loops allow for more stuff to be added.  It's functional, but not coherent, and the black color with the reflective striping is obviously a compromise (out of the box, of course, it is all black). To meet the regs I still have to wear a vest underneath.

Its a taller vest, which on the surface might seem nice, but makes in/out of a vehicle a pain - the pockets stick out so much that driving can be difficult, and of course the butt pack has to come off, which is a hassle because it uses ALICE clips.

It has a bladder pocket, and the belt is nice to hang my leg bag off of, but also causes issues when sitting in a vehicle, especially with the leg back attached.

There's also the issue of its military / swat style, which for some might be a plus, but is really out of place in SAR, especially the kind
of ops CAP is involved in.  When I first started I want full battle-rattle like everyone else, but as I've learned and actually done
things with my gear, I see that there is a reason most SAR guys have what they have, and it generally doesn't include a plate carrier.

Looking more "rescue-y" and less "swat-y" is a plus in my book, especially if you're doing house-to-house door knocking in a DA and
some people might be doing "things" they have no interest in showing Hondo Harrelson.

Now we come to the good parts...

This is what the vest looks like worn empty without the pack.

Note I have removed the velcro shell holders in favor of some nametapes I already had and (later) an ID holder from my Icon motorcycle vest - just one suggestion of many things that could go there.  A filghtbadge, cell phone holder, or any number of other things could fit well there, too.  The shell / pen holder will definitely be reused on the vest somewhere.

The exterior is call "Buck-Suede" and is layered over a tactical-grade woven nylon.  The orange parts are all soft to the touch, but fell substantial.  I have some concern about water repellency of the suede - the gear is protected by the woven nylon, but the suede itself will probably be less repellent - Tim suggests something called "Nik-Wax" waterproofing spray for fleece.

There are available Molle-like loops on the hydro-pouch that could be used for any number of things, and the empty hydro-pouch itself is a good-sized pack on its own.

All the clips, slides, and straps are well-made and feature doubled-over-sewn pull tabs which is a nice feature.  I personally like a snug fit on a tac vest, so I usually pull things tight once its on. I found the larger tabs much easier to find and pull, and you'll also notice on the sides that are retention loops to keep things from flopping around, another nice "extra".  These large pull tabs are featured throughout the vest and pack.

The clips for the pack and the hydro-pouch cover are made of a very thick plastic and feel very substantial.  Its takes some finger strength to open them, and they are much heftier than what you would normally find on a backpack or similar vest.

The inside is padded and lined with a breathable mesh, which also looks and feels to be very high quality materials.

All zippers are smooth, large-toothed, and hefty, and feature corded pulls for easy use with gloves.  The front vest pockets, and main pack flap, have double zippers to allow opening up or down, which is a welcome, secure, change from most vests which use velcro.  All zippers were smooth and quiet, which is owed, I'm sure, to this vest's hunting origins.

Now the detachable pack:

As I was showing it to another member this afternoon, we noticed that the pack had the same padded and breathable material as the vest's interior, and low and behold if we didn't find a pair of high-quality shoulder straps hidden down the corners of the pack - so the pack can be used as a very nice backpack in and of itself - a really nice value-add feature.
Note to Bladetech, while this is a nice-to-have, this might be one of the places to save some money as you look to bring the cost down.  While the detachable compartment is a key feature of this vest, I don't personally foresee where I would use the pack alone as just a backpack.  Removing the extra straps, as well as the padding and breathable material would also shed a small amount of bulk in that area.


So what's gotta go in here?

I dumped both vests, which had a lot of duplicate toys and came up with this as my full 24-hour(+):

So, we start from the inside and work out:

The inside pockets make a great place for the GT manual, map holder, and other important documents.  The pockets themselves feature velcro strips across the whole inside area, and a removable loop can be fastened in place and sized to fit various handguns - another nice feature shown in Tim's photos above - since we don't normally carry concealed weapons, I just removed the loop, but was thinking the shell holders could be velcro'd into one side to hold pens, etc.

The pack and the pockets just ate up my gear and kept asking for more!  With the full 24 I am not even close to filling this thing up!  The pack features an outside pocket with a separate front zipper.  I put stuff in there that I didn't need at finger's reach, but that might be needed more often than meals and shelter (wipes, kleenex, glo-gloves, poncho, etc.).   The vertical zipper makes putting in even larger items easy without feeling like you're forcing the opening.

Once the front part was full, I moved to the main pack compartment for my shelter and meal stuff, which I don't use all that often.  I really like how the pack will open full-length when laid flat - anyone who has every had to dump a whole butt-pack to get to something at the bottom will appreciate this.

Here's the pack fully-loaded and ready to go - not even close to full - I could cram a lot more "stuff" in here before it started to strain things.  In a pinch you could fit a netbook or even a D-Series notebook in there without too much concern for its safety.

Full and closed.  Kudos to whomever suggest using the rifle loops for an L-Per - fits nice and snug.  Note the handle on the top
to carry the pack or the combo (when attached).

The top two front pockets have interior mesh separators to keep a few things straight - I have a compass on one side, signal mirror on the other for now.  I tried to keep the top left pocket fairly clear for a cell phone.

The vest pockets eat gear like no tomorrow as well!  The double zippers insure nothing can fall out (unlike the velcro over-flaps), and as mentioned have the cord-pulls for use with gloves.  Having a "back" to the pocket means you can push little things like whistles deep into the pocket so they won't get snagged on other items, with no fear of losing them.  I have always been wary about some key piece of kit falling out the sides of either of my vests.

This is the rig fully-loaded with CAP 24-hour gear:

As you can see, its not really working too hard to hold everything - lots of room left for snacks, or extra toys.

I don't have a bladder in it, which would obviously add some bulk to the back, but not anything
significant.

The L-Per is very secure in the side loops, and everything was sitting nice and comfortable - like any rig with this
much "stuff" in a back-pack, its a little back-heavy, but adjustments of the various straps and pulling it forward
and down helps that.

Four quick "clicks" and the pack detaches to allow easy access into a vehicle.  As I mentioned earlier, I originally
thought that the vest was a little short, especially for someone tall like me, but I see now that this makes for much
more comfortable vehicle access, and the pouches do not stick out or distract the driver as many full-on military-style
tac vests do.  Without the pack on a normal seating posture in my truck was very comfortable, and I had no
issues getting in or out.

As you see I did not try to do anything with my EJF HT - Tim's ideas are certainly viable, and I need to spend some time noodling -
I think a back rig of some kind is preferable, but might cause issues with in/out of vehicles.  Mine may well wind up where his was
on the left shoulder, just a little lower, and move the ID pouch to one of the pockets.  Velcro on the top two pockets, or a
generously-sized ID holder on one of them, would be a nice upgrade.

Below are some hands-on comments or questions made by other members who have had the opportunity to fondle it:

"I would use this."

"I really like this."

"Negates the need for a separate visibility vest.

"Perfect, fits everything we need."

"I really like this, but would like it in "ANSI Green".  Can he do that?"

"Pricing under $150 would get my attention."

"Could retro-reflective panels or striping be added?"

Conclusion:
A fine piece of work and design, with much attention to detail and quality.  Considering it was not purpose-built for SAR work, it sure
seems like it was - a CAP member designing a vest-rig would be hard-pressed to add many features it doesn't already have.
You will not be disappointed by the quality or functionality if you choose to add this to your kit.

Pros:
Plenty of room.
Detachable pack makes for easy in/out of vehicle, and allows use of vest for multi-roles without repacking.
High-vis orange color fills CAP requirement for vest without additional layers.
Large double-sized tabs, and cord-pulls on zippers allow for easy adjustments and access, even with gloves.
Zippered compartments hold everything securely.

Cons:
Buck-suede may need treatment for use in wet conditions.
Lack of retro-reflective panels or stripes.
Price may be out of reach for cadets and less-active members.

For those looking for a 1-shot solution for most CAP ground ops (as well as other outdoor activities), this vest is a winner.
I will be recommending it to those I work with, and continue to show it around for further comments and suggestions over
the coming months. 

I'm dying to get outside now and actually try this thing in the field!

[LTC Don]

I really like this part:

"Negates the need for a separate visibility vest."


I have some orange gear now, from gear911 specialties, but it doesn't extend around to the front so technically I still need a vest to meet requirements.

And, I continue to find it beyond stupid that we require orange vests, only to have folks put on their high-speed camo gear and cover up the vest. 

This set of gear meets and exceeds all requirements which is fantastic.

Definitely on the 'want to have' list.

I like the idea of doing away with the backpack straps as it will most likely always be with the vest and not worn as a separate piece of equipment.

Well done and excellent review.

BTW, where did you get your orange nametapes done?  They go well with the gear.

PS: One note about the rifle strapping being used for the L-Per.  It looks like it was tailor made for carrying the old-style L-Per which is quite cool, but what about the new digital L-Per, are the straps too far apart to adequately hold it or would a middle or third strap be needed or the two original straps be moved closer together?


Cheers,

[Bobble]

Eclipse -

Thanks for the write-up, I would definitely be interested in acquiring this item when available.  I just have a few questions:

1)  Even though the inside of the vest is covered with a "breathable mesh", it still seems like it would be quite warm in hot/humid weather conditions.  I do like that the vest portion that rides over the shoulders seems relatively narrow in comparison to some of the other vests out there.  Perhaps Mr. Wegner might consider making the base vest out of a purely mesh material, with just some padding in the shoulder area, also for those of us living in sometimes hot/humid Atlantic Seaboard states?  Don't know if that's possible.

2)  Some packs/bags (I have one) have the inside material made of a light color.  Even though it can show dirt, it can make things a lot easier to find and pull out in low-light conditions.  Since the pictures you attached show the packs outside as safety orange and the inside as OD green, I am thinking it could be done for this also.  If yellow or orange is too bright, maybe foliage green or light gray?

3)  I'm guessing that "ANSI green" referes to the ANSI-approved lime green used in high-visibility apparel, is that correct?

4)  Sorry, I may have missed it, but can the pack be detached from the vest by the wearer while being worn?  Or does the Fastex buckle placement make that not possible?

5)  Water-repellency is big issue for me.  To spend the bucks on this item and then have to buy and spray on a water-repellent coating?  There's got to be a better way (or material).  Also, a built-in raincover (in safety orange, of course) for the pack that can be pulled out as needed would be a nice feature. 

6)  Re the Blackhawk! vest -

To meet the regs I still have to wear a vest underneath.

Best.

[Eclipse]

I'll leave questions that move more into redesign for Tim...

Yes - the ANSI green I mention is the Lime-green now worn by the DOT in many states, and required in many if working on a federally-funded roadway.  Tim has asked me for a spec, but volume would be an issue as those wanting the green would be a smaller subset again of the potential customers.

I don't have a cheese-block L-PER, but if someone can send me the dimensions I can mock-up a piece of wood or something and see how it fits - I'm thinking in that case that perhaps a tube-case of some kind might do the trick.

I would not want to try and detach the pack without taking off the vest first, or having a buddy unhook it.

I had the nametapes done at at 1800nametapes.com under the color / law enforcement area, they now offer the option of velcro on most tapes.

[Eclipse]

In regards to the new "cheese-block" LL-16 L-Per,


L-Tronics says it's 13.4" L x by 3.34"H x 3.1"D.  The side straps are about 11" apart, so it would seem to be a very good fit - I'm hoping to be able to test one soon.



I picked up a nice hydro-bladder from Tactical Tailor (along with some morale goodies and a new instructor hat for my bike teaching) for ~ $12.

[IceNine]

I'll see if I can borrow a cheese-block and bring it up in a couple weeks.