Summer 2011 National Board Agenda

[BillB]

FW is correct he creates smiles. But he BRACES for the conflicts in CAP. and tries to get to the ROOT of the problems. It's something he can sink his teeth into.

[RiverAux]

People still get lost on land, even on islands.  Hurricanes seem to come through there regularly.  Then, of course there is still cadet programs and AE.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm very sorry you feel this way. 

So am I.

I have only served in one squadron which had a chaplain, a Presbyterian minister.

This guy was as GTG as any I've seen.  Not only was he an exceptional "sky pilot" but he also had several ES quals and actively reached out to AFRES and ANG units nearby to see how he could help their Chaplains out.

We were very sorry to lose him when he took a call to a congregation in another state.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

FW is correct he creates smiles. But he BRACES for the conflicts in CAP. and tries to get to the ROOT of the problems. It's something he can sink his teeth into.

While applying his WISDOM, right?

[Capination]

Until 2009 it was the policy of CAP to keep uniform issues to the Winter NB meeting.  That changed in Nov 2009.

Sir, I have been suspicious ever since then what motivated the NEC to believe they had to act with such alacrity in November 2009 on an issue that had not been dealt with in such a fashion until then...with no input from the rank-and-file that I know of.

WRT USVI/Puerto Rico...I have often wondered about the status of not just CAP personnel, but military personnel in general, especially National Guard.  PR has an Army and an Air National Guard, and an SDF, yet they are not a State...I believe the USVI has a nonflying ANG unit.  I'm not sure of the Constitutional authority of this; but I remember the phrase "the National Guard of the several States..." ah, well, what do I know.

I know the PRANG flies C-130s and at one time flew F-16's, A-7's and F-104's...probably as a deterrent to Warsaw Pact operations out of Cuba.

I don't know the geography well enough to know how far apart physically the USVI and PR are, but would there be logistical problems "getting there from here" for personnel from both locales?  What is their mission, since the USCG is well established in Puerto Rico (CGAS Borinquen) and I imagine they have SAR in hand...but again my knowledge of that area is very limited.

U.S.V.I. is around 50 miles east of Puerto Rico. Yes, there are logistics problems because any visit involves a flight and there is not much money for that. Also, there are cultural and language hurdles. I surveyed many members (in P.R.) and they oppose the name change. They told me that, despite "an alleged majority opposition, the CC is going ahead with the name change to secure funding from U.S.V.I." and that is a quote. Same missions as in CONUS: AE, Cadet Programs, SAR/DR both Inland (100%) and over water (assisting USCG), and lots of CD...lots of it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm very sorry you feel this way. 

So am I.

To clarify, I have no issues with most Chaplains, but the write up of reasons to keep (lay?) ministers, etc from CAP chaplain status was just pure bunk. Almost every paragraph had something that in my experience is not true. I have yet to meet a SINGLE CAP Chaplain who did not lead a CHRISTIAN prayer. It's all semantics I suppose, but there are those who believe in monotheism,  polytheism, atheism and some don't even fall under any of those categories.

Character Development aka Moral Leadership, as I remember was even a battle to allow CDI, and even that I think is all bull. There are SO many religious values that it's almost counterproductive to use them for something like character development. We all live by different religious values, but we all live (and are expected to) live by the same social values.

I learned my morals/built my character based on my family and friends, not my once a month session with someone at CAP. Along those lines, since we DON'T claim to prefer any religion, the topics of discussion are not religious but actually related to societal values - something just about everyone can guide and lead cadets in discussing.

[JC004]

FW is correct he creates smiles. But he BRACES for the conflicts in CAP. and tries to get to the ROOT of the problems. It's something he can sink his teeth into.

You're nuts.

[Eclipse]

FW is correct he creates smiles. But he BRACES for the conflicts in CAP. and tries to get to the ROOT of the problems. It's something he can sink his teeth into.

You're nuts.

That's actually hilarious - well played!

[JC004]

Moderator says no talking about teeth cuz his teeth hurt and need work done!   

I very much support limiting the uniform stuff - even with Ned's approach.  I do not care to have my money expended for the purpose of sending 66 people from across the country to talk about random uniform changes that get VERY out of control.  We'd probably still be in a horrible situation had we not had the moratorium and I'm glad they placed that.  I pushed that one for a long while.  We have MANY MANY issues and MANY MANY areas where CAP can grow, partner, build, and the like.  That's the stuff we need them to be talking about - not the stupid nameplate changes. 

Silver nameplate with just name, silver nameplate with "Civil Air Patrol," silver nameplate with "U.S. Civil Air Patrol," back to silver nameplate without "U.S.," then back to just the silver nameplate with name.  Round corporate seal FDU patch, USAF Auxiliary shield FDU patch, "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" FDU patch, "Civil Air Patrol" FDU patch... Really, folks?  Important issues, not nameplates and patches.  I REALLY hope that's what happens when that moratorium is done soon.

[RADIOMAN015]

  Important issues, not nameplates and patches.  I REALLY hope that's what happens when that moratorium is done soon.

Well actually a good decision to make would be to continue the moratorium.   I don't think in the uniform area, there's a big drum beating to force any changes at this point.  The way the economy is, don't need forced changes just for the sake of changes.  ALL of our missions are being completed successfully with the current wide variety uniforms we have.
Too much time at all of these board meetings is spent on trivia, when they really need to be focusing on goals, long, medium, and short periods, and ensure the membership is fully aware of these and a mechanism is established so the general membership knows where we stand in relation accomplishing these goals.
RM

[Eclipse]

I don't think in the uniform area, there's a big drum beating to force any changes at this point.

Of course you don't.

However the issues of field uniforms, and the upcoming retirement of the CSU are significant issues that effect a lot of our most active members.

As of 1 Jan, we will no longer have a full set of corporate uniforms that meets mission requirements.

[JC004]

  Important issues, not nameplates and patches.  I REALLY hope that's what happens when that moratorium is done soon.

Well actually a good decision to make would be to continue the moratorium.   I don't think in the uniform area, there's a big drum beating to force any changes at this point.  The way the economy is, don't need forced changes just for the sake of changes.  ALL of our missions are being completed successfully with the current wide variety uniforms we have.
Too much time at all of these board meetings is spent on trivia, when they really need to be focusing on goals, long, medium, and short periods, and ensure the membership is fully aware of these and a mechanism is established so the general membership knows where we stand in relation accomplishing these goals.
RM

How else exactly are we going to get the red nametapes?

[Tim Medeiros]

I don't think in the uniform area, there's a big drum beating to force any changes at this point.

Of course you don't.

However the issues of field uniforms, and the upcoming retirement of the CSU are significant issues that effect a lot of our most active members.

As of 1 Jan, we will no longer have a full set of corporate uniforms that meets mission requirements.

What mission requirements were met by the CSU that couldn't be handled by the original CDU equivalent to the AF Style Blues (short sleeve, long sleeve and Service Dress combinations)?


Short Sleeve blues == White shirt/grey pants
Long Sleeve blues == White shirt/grey pants
Service Dress == White shirt/grey pants/Blazer
Mess Dress/Semi-formal == White shirt/grey pants/Blazer in semi-formal configuration


CSU was a way to add a set of uniforms that did NOT need to be added as we already had a CAP Distinctive equivalent to the AF Style blues.

[Eclipse]

CSU was a way to add a set of uniforms that did NOT need to be added as we already had a CAP Distinctive equivalent to the AF Style blues.

No.  We did not.

The blazer is in no way equivalent in form or function to the CSU or USAF-style service dress jacket(s), especially if you are involved in
activities which interact with the military in formal situations such as encampments, NCSA's, award banquets, etc.

[Chappie]

I'm very sorry you feel this way. 

So am I.

To clarify, I have no issues with most Chaplains, but the write up of reasons to keep (lay?) ministers, etc from CAP chaplain status was just pure bunk. Almost every paragraph had something that in my experience is not true. I have yet to meet a SINGLE CAP Chaplain who did not lead a CHRISTIAN prayer. It's all semantics I suppose, but there are those who believe in monotheism,  polytheism, atheism and some don't even fall under any of those categories.

Character Development aka Moral Leadership, as I remember was even a battle to allow CDI, and even that I think is all bull. There are SO many religious values that it's almost counterproductive to use them for something like character development. We all live by different religious values, but we all live (and are expected to) live by the same social values.

I learned my morals/built my character based on my family and friends, not my once a month session with someone at CAP. Along those lines, since we DON'T claim to prefer any religion, the topics of discussion are not religious but actually related to societal values - something just about everyone can guide and lead cadets in discussing.

Having had  previous experience in law enforcement chaplaincy ... the requirements that the agencies that I served with used the same requirements as CAP -- there was a recognized standard approved by the DoD which gave some degree of validation to the person's education and experience.   In that, the CAP Chaplain Corps has served as a model for other organizations/institutions who have volunteer or paid chaplains.  Hence:  "This is one of the uniquely distinctive ways that Civil Air Patrol is known to be an exceptional organization."

One of these days, I trust that you have the opportunity to be in a setting where I pray -- I am very cautious to the audience to whom is there and would not characterize my prayer as "Christian" (if you mean by that the closing before the "Amen").  In my 15 years of serving as a CAP, the content of my prayers has never been an issue.

In the past couple of years, there have significant measures in the training of the Chaplains -- an honest to goodness Specialty Track with requirements for ratings; no waivers for SLS and CLC; etc.  Look for similar changes in the CDI specialty track as well.

[Tim Medeiros]

CSU was a way to add a set of uniforms that did NOT need to be added as we already had a CAP Distinctive equivalent to the AF Style blues.

No.  We did not.

The blazer is in no way equivalent in form or function to the CSU or USAF-style service dress jacket(s), especially if you are involved in
activities which interact with the military in formal situations such as encampments, NCSA's, award banquets, etc.

It worked for years prior to the CSU, what changed?  I see NO problem with a blazer at those types of events, heck that is practically what the USAF Service Dress jacket really is.

[Eclipse]

It worked for years prior to the CSU, what changed?  I see NO problem with a blazer at those types of events, heck that is practically what the USAF Service Dress jacket really is.

The cut of the cloth, nor the color is the issue.  It is the fact that members are not allowed to display their accomplishments
and standing in the same, equal way as everyone else (you knew that, but if you want to pursue this conversation, fine).

Members in blazers look like insurance salesmen next to those in the USAF-style jackets. 

There's nothing wrong with the white / grays.  Just give us a hat, and a proper jacket that allows for everyone to be equal in plumage.

[billford1]

The CSU and TPU would have been fine if left in place with the grey name tag and slides. I know People who spent the money. These are some high value folks.

[flyboy53]

Moderator says no talking about teeth cuz his teeth hurt and need work done!   

I very much support limiting the uniform stuff - even with Ned's approach.  I do not care to have my money expended for the purpose of sending 66 people from across the country to talk about random uniform changes that get VERY out of control.  We'd probably still be in a horrible situation had we not had the moratorium and I'm glad they placed that.  I pushed that one for a long while.  We have MANY MANY issues and MANY MANY areas where CAP can grow, partner, build, and the like.  That's the stuff we need them to be talking about - not the stupid nameplate changes. 

Silver nameplate with just name, silver nameplate with "Civil Air Patrol," silver nameplate with "U.S. Civil Air Patrol," back to silver nameplate without "U.S.," then back to just the silver nameplate with name.  Round corporate seal FDU patch, USAF Auxiliary shield FDU patch, "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" FDU patch, "Civil Air Patrol" FDU patch... Really, folks?  Important issues, not nameplates and patches.  I REALLY hope that's what happens when that moratorium is done soon.

YES!!!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!  Multiply that problem when you have a family of four in the program and two of them are cadets; all with two or more uniforms that have to be changed!!!! That's exactly what I meant by fiscal impact on the member.[/size]

Another question: How many members are in USVI. Are there pilots and GTs there? What is the cadet and AE program like?

[JC004]

I work with non-profits and I do a lot of volunteer things elsewhere.  Many times in answering questions about CAP, I've heard things along the lines of "You pay that much to volunteer?" or "I would do that if it didn't cost so much."