Solo aeronautical rating qualification.

[afgeo4]

I have a cadet in my squadron who's soloed 6 times in a Cessna 172 through a private flight school.

Here are the regs:
According to CAPR 35-6:

b. CAP Solo Pilot Rating: Be qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-1.

According to CAPR 60-1:

b. CAP Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP solo pilot in CAP aircraft:
(1) Be an active CAP member at least 16 years of age (for balloon or glider be age 14 or older).
(2) Possess a valid FAA student pilot certificate.
(3) Possess a valid, current medical certificate (not required for gliders or balloons).
(4) Have received the required instruction from an FAA authorized flight instructor (CFI/CFIG), have a written record documenting instruction, for the appropriate aircraft, in accordance with FAR 61.87, and possess a current solo endorsement IAW FARs from a CAP instructor pilot.
(5) CAP glider student pilots will have a minimum of thirty (30) dual instruction training flights and a properly documented logbook/training record ensuring all required areas of FAR 61.87, Solo Requirements for Student Pilots, are met prior to initial solo. First time, wing level or higher, glider encampment/academy students are restricted to CAP cadet pre-solo pilot qualification only.

The cadet is 17 years old. I've got a copy of his FAA Cert, FAA medical, and his log book with each solo flight signed off on. What else do I need for his package? What's an IAW FAR? What does FAR 61.87 say about flight training that I need to make sure of? I have no pilots in my squadron and I need some help.

[KyCAP]

Secret Squirrel Decoder Ring ON

IAW FAR = In Accordance With Federal Aviation Regulation.

I take it from the post that you are not a CFI nor a pilot.   Best advice.  Call the Wing Standards and Evaluation Officer

He's going to need CFI Form 5 to get the Cadet on your pilot roster and Stan Eval should be happy to help guide a young eager pilot through this.

[Flying Pig]

I have a cadet in my squadron who's soloed 6 times in a Cessna 172 through a private flight school.

Here are the regs:
According to CAPR 35-6:

b. CAP Solo Pilot Rating: Be qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-1.

According to CAPR 60-1:

b. CAP Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP solo pilot in CAP aircraft:
(1) Be an active CAP member at least 16 years of age (for balloon or glider be age 14 or older).
(2) Possess a valid FAA student pilot certificate.
(3) Possess a valid, current medical certificate (not required for gliders or balloons).
(4) Have received the required instruction from an FAA authorized flight instructor (CFI/CFIG), have a written record documenting instruction, for the appropriate aircraft, in accordance with FAR 61.87, and possess a current solo endorsement IAW FARs from a CAP instructor pilot.
(5) CAP glider student pilots will have a minimum of thirty (30) dual instruction training flights and a properly documented logbook/training record ensuring all required areas of FAR 61.87, Solo Requirements for Student Pilots, are met prior to initial solo. First time, wing level or higher, glider encampment/academy students are restricted to CAP cadet pre-solo pilot qualification only.

The cadet is 17 years old. I've got a copy of his FAA Cert, FAA medical, and his log book with each solo flight signed off on. What else do I need for his package? What's an IAW FAR? What does FAR 61.87 say about flight training that I need to make sure of? I have no pilots in my squadron and I need some help.

You need a sign off from a CAP instructor for a solo?  Thats only if your soloing CAP aircraft right?  Not many solo students have high performance endorsements.

Otherwise, its just a the CAP form for the award, CAPF 120 I think, and the log book entry, student license and the medical.  There isnt going to be a Form 5 for a solo unless its in a CAP aircraft.

[Pylon]

Otherwise, its just a the CAP form for the award, CAPF 120 I think, and the log book entry, student license and the medical.  There isnt going to be a Form 5 for a solo unless its in a CAP aircraft.

For the wings you mean?  No, same requirement.  You must be a CAP Solo Pilot to wear the solo wings.  It's not good enough to just be somebody with a solo endorsement.  Just like you must be a CAP Pilot to wear the pilot wings, it's not good enough to just be somebody with a pilot's license.

And the Form 120 is for decorations (like the lifesaving medal, CommComms, DSM, MoV, etc.) - not aeronautical badges.

[Camas]

Try this; have the cadet go into e-services then to "My Operations Qualifications/National Reports". Go to the "pilot" link and then to "FAA Requirements". He can fill in the blanks on that page. Later, as the FAA requirements are approved, he can check out the "CAPR35-6" page for various aeronautical ratings.

His unit commander should see some "Approvals Waiting" on his e-services homepage. The commander should also check his "Operations Qualifications" link under "restricted applications" for any validations waiting approval. He can then approve these as he or she wishes.

It's possible that once the unit commander approves any approvals or validations then these go to group or wing for final approval. I hope I've got that right.

[afgeo4]

Okay, so he'll need a check 5 ride in a 172 with a CAP CFI and then I can submit his paperwork along with an electronic entry into e-services for his aeronautical rating of CAP Solo pilot, right?

[Camas]

That should do it. The approving authority will probably want to see documentation that all appropriate requirements are met prior to final approval. It probably wouldn't hurt to scan all documentation such as a completed CAPF5 along with any other FAA-related requirements such as the medical card and have them available so that you can forward copies to approving authority via email if necessary. Give this a try; I believe this should do the trick. You have no pilots so you'll want to contact your group or wing standards and evaluation officer to keep him or her aware of this cadet's pending qualifications.

[Rob Sherlin]

Just a question out of curiosity.....

  If an FAA rating isn't good enough, and you have to go through a second check ride with an authorized CAP member to be a CAP pilot to wear those wings on your uniform, does the same thing go for glider wings?
 
  What I'm trying to figure out is.....In CAP, there are a few reasons why this rule is in play. I think it's mainly because we need pilots for what we do (rather than just flying for the fun of it). So, I can somewhat understand why a second check from a qualified CAP member might be in order. Then, I tend to think about, who qualifies the qualified people to perform the checking (whole other topic that was mentioned elswhere).

  But, doesn't that make it different with gliders? We don't use gliders in SAR or things of that nature. But, there are CAP wings for it. Do you have to go through a second check with CAP for that? What would institute you to be a CAP glider pilot and be able to wear the wings, other than being a certified instructor through CAP to teach cadets or other members?  So, the only way I can wear "Glider Pilots" wings on my uniform, is to get my rating through the FAA, become a glider CFI through the FAA, then try to find someone who can certify me to be what I've allready earned, than try to get involved with a CAP glider program just to show I'm authorized to fly a glider?

   I know it's a little off the subject, but it is something that does relate to it. that brings up questions.

[Pylon]

CAP wings and badges do not represent members who have certain qualifications.  They represent members with CAP qualifications. 

A member can be a lawyer but is not entitled to wear the legal badge unless he or she becomes qualified and serves as a CAP legal officer.  A member can be a minister, but is not entitled to wear the chaplain badge unless he or she becomes qualified and serves as a CAP chaplain.  A member can be a pilot, but is not entitled to wear pilot wings unless he or she becomes qualified as a CAP pilot.

It has nothing to do with if your outside qualifications are "good enough" as you mention in your post; the badges and wings simply represent those who have chosen to go through the process and get checked out by CAP to contribute those skills for CAP.  Nobody questions if CAP thinks a minister's seminary degree isn't "good enough" when we won't let them wear a chaplains badge unless they choose to go through our qualification and verification processes.

[Rob Sherlin]

  I know you have to be a CAP pilot (not just a pilot through the FAA) and so on. My curiosity was mainly focused on the glider wings, and not intended to question how CAP does things. Since it seems gliders are used as more of a recreation, or sport, doesn't it make it a bit harder to be able to wear glider wings?
 
  You can become a pilot for the CAP for a few reasons, because we use engine powered aircraft in a lot of missions and such, therefore there's more of a call for pilots for them. But, to wear glider pilots wings, you have to be a glider pilot for CAP (I understand all that).To be a glider pilot for CAP, one would first have to get glider pilot rating through FAA (no way around that). But, what happens after that? Since we don't use gliders for missions or anything, isn't the only way you can be a glider pilot for CAP is if you're teaching other CAP members how to fly them? This would mean one would not only have to earn glider rating through FAA, they'd have to have an instructor rating too, wouldn't they? Then actually find a glider program somewhere to teach in, to be flying a glider for CAP ?

   How does one actually get to wear glider wings in CAP ?

   I'm also curious about the "pre solo" wings, but I am looking at possibilities of getting glider training as I found a place that will charge me $200 every three lessons.

[Flying Pig]

Many moons ago when I was a cadet, I was awarded solo wings in gliders just for soloing.  There were no CAP glider pilots around and no CAP gliders to take a CAP checkride in.  So when I brought my student license in, I was awarded my solo wings, which were for gliders.  This was 15 years ago though.....loooooong before e-services or anything like that.

[Rob Sherlin]

  I just read some info on it. You have to get your glider rating through FAA, then go through a CAP checkride to wear the glider wings. It doesn't state anything about having to have that at your specialty track or anything. You just have to keep current (you have to go through a flight check if you havent flown for 180 days (60 days if you're carrying passengers)).
  It just seems that earning glider wings is not as expensive as others, and I know they're equipping a lot of gliders now with ARCHER systems, so, maybe there's a long term goal to start using gliders for more than just recreation or sport.

[SJFedor]

  I just read some info on it. You have to get your glider rating through FAA, then go through a CAP checkride to wear the glider wings. It doesn't state anything about having to have that at your specialty track or anything. You just have to keep current (you have to go through a flight check if you havent flown for 180 days (60 days if you're carrying passengers)).
  It just seems that earning glider wings is not as expensive as others, and I know they're equipping a lot of gliders now with ARCHER systems, so, maybe there's a long term goal to start using gliders for more than just recreation or sport.

90 day passenger recurrency/ 2 year flight review.

And our (CAP) gliders are not used for anything other then as part of the AE mission. There's absolutely no way a glider could be equipped with an ARCHER system, and be of any use. ARCHER requires the sortie to be flown at a constant ground speed and altitude above ground level (which changes depending on where you're flying, which then makes YOU change your altitude). Gliders aren't a good platform for anything we do in the Emergency Services/Operations side of the house.

So, essentially, gliders in CAP are used for 1) cadet orientation flights, 2) cadet instruction, 3) senior instruction/proficiency. That's it.

[Rob Sherlin]

 I must have missunderstood about the ARCHER thing.

So, the only way to earn the right to wear glider wings with your uniform is to teach soaring, do orientation flights, and such? Otherwise, I don't see how you can be a glider pilot for CAP, and from what I'm getting from the postings is you can't wear any wings unless you perform that task for CAP. Therefore, you can't just get glider approved through FAA and CAP, you have to also be involved with one of those tasks.

  Or, am I missunderstanding all that too, and you only need to go through (and pass) FAA and CAP check rides to wear the wings?

[Pylon]

I must have missunderstood about the ARCHER thing.

So, the only way to earn the right to wear glider wings with your uniform is to teach soaring, do orientation flights, and such? Otherwise, I don't see how you can be a glider pilot for CAP, and from what I'm getting from the postings is you can't wear any wings unless you perform that task for CAP. Therefore, you can't just get glider approved through FAA and CAP, you have to also be involved with one of those tasks.

  Or, am I missunderstanding all that too, and you only need to go through (and pass) FAA and CAP check rides to wear the wings?

You can get checked out to fly a CAP glider just to fly it, just like a CAP pilot who doesn't have sign-offs or the requisites for TMP, MP or O-Flights can still get Form 5'ed and rent out the CAP plane and fly it.  Still earns you the wings. 

[Eclipse]

...and I know they're equipping a lot of gliders now with ARCHER systems, so, maybe there's a long term goal to start using gliders for more than just recreation or sport.

Cite please - the CAP ARCHER systems I'm aware of wouldn't even fit in the glider, let alone be of any use.  As Pylon says, ARCHER requires low, fairly slow, consistent speed, not something a glider is good at.  There's also the issue of power, which most gliders have little to none of and which Archer needs lots of.

Edit: Rob indicated he misunderstood, so moot point.

In terms of the form 5, you only need to do it once your whole CAP career to be able to wear the wings forever.

I did some checking on a "Glider Form 5" and best I can tell its the same form and process, and I'm guessing here because I couldn't find anything specific in 60-1 or the KB that questions which are not applicable because they are specific to powered operations are simply indicated "N/A" on the form.

This page: https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/DOT/school/NCPSC/GliderNCPSC/CAPR60-1review/Glider_Chapter5_CAPR60-1_Review.cfm has about the most detail I could find.

Otherwise, same deal, complete a Form 5 ride in a glider, to a Wing Glider Stan/Eval pilot's satisfaction, once, and you can wear the wings.

Being a "CAP Pilot" does not mean you are doing anything for CAP, it simply means you met the minimum requirements to fly a respective airframe at one point in time, which then allows you to rent our planes on the cheap to build hours and proficiency towards TMP, MO, and O-Pilot.

[Rob Sherlin]

 OK...That clears up a lot!....Thanks guys!

[SarDragon]

I did some checking on a "Glider Form 5" and best I can tell its the same form and process, and I'm guessing here because I couldn't find anything specific in 60-1 or the KB that questions which are not applicable because they are specific to powered operations are simply indicated "N/A" on the form.

The glider folks use their own form, CAPF 5G.

[Eclipse]

The glider folks use their own form, CAPF 5G.

Well, there you go.

Heh - "assembly"  is one of evals.   Yikes! Flying in a Yugo with a garage door stapled to the roof is bad enough, but at least they come factory assembled! 

[Rob Sherlin]

Well, at least I'm not going this route..................

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Man-Flies-376-Kilometers-With-Lawn-Chair-and-Helium-Party-Balloons-89312.shtml

   I saw this guy in his first attemp in 1982 when I was still living in Ca. At first I thought it was just a bunch of balloons that got away from a car dealership (happens often) untill I noticed the dot underneath them.

  My mistake, it was another guy back in 82 (who was shivering from the cold when they found him and flew by him up there).