MOLLE GEAR COLOR - which side is true?

[maverik]

Alright I am probably bringing up an old thread but I wanted to know if we are in fact going to change to the ABU or some other camoflauge within 2-3 years since Iam getting ready to sink some serious cash into a Eagle Maritime CIRAS and need to know what color to get.

[JayT]

Alright I am probably bringing up an old thread but I wanted to know if we are in fact going to change to the ABU or some other camoflauge within 2-3 years since Iam getting ready to sink some serious cash into a Eagle Maritime CIRAS and need to know what color to get.

Not for years, and plenty of guys wear old style gear with new style uniforms. There's no reason to invest in ABU/ACU pattern except to look high speed

[IceNine]

A lot of folks have been buying the foliage green.  It will match the ABU's and doesn't look bad with the BDU's.

It is what I would buy with my hard earned.

But there is also black, which will go with anything... YMMV

[es_g0d]

If you want the latest in SAR gear fashion, you won't worry about fashion.  Find out what works, lasts, and fits your budget.  Utility is its own beauty. 

[NIN]

Alright I am probably bringing up an old thread but I wanted to know if we are in fact going to change to the ABU or some other camoflauge within 2-3 years since Iam getting ready to sink some serious cash into a Eagle Maritime CIRAS and need to know what color to get.

And you need an armor carrier.. why?

[Hawk200]

Alright I am probably bringing up an old thread but I wanted to know if we are in fact going to change to the ABU or some other camoflauge within 2-3 years since Iam getting ready to sink some serious cash into a Eagle Maritime CIRAS and need to know what color to get.

And you need an armor carrier.. why?

I'd have to second that question. CAP members have no use for body armor carriers. Even an empty carrier presents an image that we don't need. SAR is not somthing that normally requires it. (I could see some places, but not many.)

For reference, this article is pretty accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIRAS

If you're trying to conserve cash, I'd suggest a Fighting Load Carrier. They can be had for $40 or less. Yes, it has the term "fighting" in it, but it's a basic MOLLE type carrier. They're comfortable, and as long as you're not putting holsters and ammo on it, no one is really going to think of the assault applications.

[es_g0d]

In one breath you say a body armor carrier is inappropriate, and in the next a combat load carrier is suggested.

I'd recommend a nice pack, preferably of a high visibility color.

That said, of course I've used military gear during ground operations.  I began carrying more and more, then less and less.  Now a well-equipped red camelbak works wonderfully, and serves triple-purposes.

Once again, UTILITY should choose your gear, NOT whether or not it "goes" with your fatigues, BDUs, ACUs, ABUs, or pink TUTUs.

[Hawk200]

In one breath you say a body armor carrier is inappropriate, and in the next a combat load carrier is suggested.

Do you even know what I'm discussing? If not, here's a couple links to FLC's:

Protech Fighting Load Carrier (Got one of these, available in black, green, tan, and ACUPat)

Standard Issue FLC

There are many other sources as well. No reason not to match patterns, but single colors might lessen the martial appearance. Just because it uses the term "combat" or "fighting" doesn't mean it's gonna make the wearer look like some combat ready soldier.

It's far different than wearing a body armor carrier that a CAP member has no need for, and would be a ridiculous and unnecessary expenditure. Plus, the FLC could probably be up to a tenth of the price, and a fifth the weight.

[maverik]

alright well I'll put a cap to the off topiness (not saying it's bad it's good info but I don't want this locked  ) I am getting an Eagle CIRAS MARITIME because after two years of airsoft I like the weight and feel of the tightness of Plate Carriers simple as that.

[Hawk200]

alright well I'll put a cap to the off topiness (not saying it's bad it's good info but I don't want this locked  ) I am getting an Eagle CIRAS MARITIME because after two years of airsoft I like the weight and feel of the tightness of Plate Carriers simple as that.

I can guarantee that a real CIRAS is going to be a lot heavier than an Airsoft replica. And it's going to be hotter. On average, they're gonna start in the $400 range. If you're just looking to get rid of your money, get a simple MOLLE carrier for $40 or less, spend $100 on adding pouches, then donate the rest to your squadron.

We do search, which is gonna be on the ground, walking. Body armor is for hostile environments, combat patrols and doorkicking. You just don't need a CIRAS, and many people are gonna think that you're wearing it just "to look cool". Sorry to be blunt, but you're gonna look foolish, and most likely not going to be taken seriously in any field work.

But on the topic of colors, just about any MOLLE carriers are in tan/khaki, desert camo, woodland camo, green (which are usually sage, "ranger" or foliage), black, ACU pattern, or even Multicam. The new Air Force Defensor Fortis system is in ACU camo pattern, and looks OK with the ABU. However, green(such as the foliage) and khaki look acceptable. But if you're stuck on getting a body armor carrier, it's your money.

[Eclipse]

IMHO, your best bet for colors is either black or green, in that order, assuming a set of combat gear is what you think you need.  Either goes with just about anything you wear under it, no matter what direction CAP uniforms take.

If you buy ACU, it will look mis-matched with the ABU, so you lose on whatever cool factor you might be shooting for, and regardless we won't see ABU's for several years, assuming the pattern stays the same by then, anyway.

We're not trying to blend in, we're trying to be seen, so contrasting colors is better, starting with vests and gear in bright colors, not camo patterns.

I still say the best bet for our ops, on or off-road are the SARMed-style vests.  I have a full Black Hawk TAC vest set, including leg bag, and I rarely wear it, (I have it only because I got the whole set, with complete 24 hour gear for $50), and when I do wear the ridiculous thing, I find myself pining for my original, Desert-Storm era E-LBV, which was the best-suited tac-style gear for our ops.

At the end of the day, for our ops and needs, a sturdy hiking bag is all you really need.  Heck, with some creativity most of what we need can be fit in (bulging) uniform pockets.

Body armor?   Come on.

[Hawk200]

IMHO, your best bet for colors is either black or green, in that order, assuming a set of combat gear is what you think you need.  Either goes with just about anything you wear under it, no matter what direction CAP uniforms take.

Green is probably a better bet, doesn't look "SWAT" like black. Even tan doesn't really look bad with ACU or ABU. I've seen a number of soldiers in ACU, and airman in ABU, wearing tan and it looks OK. It's contrasting, but looks acceptable.

If you buy ACU, it will look mis-matched with the ABU, so you lose on whatever cool factor you might be shooting for, ...

You've really got to look to tell the difference. With a vest in ACUPat worn with ABU's it's barely noticeable that it's a different pattern. Now a Goretex in ACUpat worn with an ABU would probably be more easily noteable.

Body armor?   Come on.

I've got to second that one. Justifying body armor with "I like the weight and feel of the tightness" seems pretty transparent. There are other, far cheaper, less combat looking plate carriers that probably have the same "weight and feel".

[NIN]

Guys

My comment earlier was to illustrate that very often we obtain gear more for its "cool factor" than its actual capability.  I have been, and will continue to be, a victim of this.   The "Oh, man, that looks cool as heck!" in the catalog translates to "Gawd, this thing is jabbin' me in the ribs and I can't reach a darn thing on my back without getting totally unlimbered.." and your $200 "Neato!" thing winds up in the closet or on Ebay.

Been there, done that, got the receipts and the storage unit full of funny looking stuff...
(Speaking of, I have these sleeping bags.. oh, forget it, I'll just bring them to my squadron. I got a sleep system this year and I don't need 3 of the old-school mountain bags anymore..)

As for "fighting load carriers," well, remember that the LCE that folks are using right now was originally designed to carry ammo, so before we get all wrapped around the axle about designations, lets think about functions. 

In my other cadet program role, I have an opportunity to be in field situations with Army folks. At Camp Atterbury in '07, I got some really funny looks from the folks who were training there with my decidedly old-school ALICE gear.  (this from folks who were doing the same activity we were, a multi-mile ruck march, with K-pots, IBA, load carriers and weapons.) We had K-pots and weapons, but our TA-50 load out was awfully weird looking to them.  It got me to thinking about what we needed to do so we don't "stick out" so badly.

So in the last year I've picked up a load-carrier that doesn't stick out so much, but its a really simple one with MOLLE capabilities.

I had considered airsoft CIRAS or IBA, but decided that

a) we absolutely don't have a need for body armor unless we're at a range of some sort, and airsoft IBA/CIRAS is useless in those places if its not got real armor in it anyway;

b) if I'm buying CIRAS or IBA to "look cool," thats not a good reason.  And all airsoft CIRAS or IBA is doing at that point is attempting to "look cool," as I would not be using any "armor functionality" at all, but merely using its load carrying functions. And those load carrying functions can be more effectively replicated by other arrangements (Ranger Racks, etc).

c) why blow $200+ on a replica CIRAS when a $35 Ranger Rack will do?

d) any sort of vest-type arrangements are HOT.  Very hot.   I like the idea of having my stuff hung on the MOLLE carrier, but not having to wear a full-on vest thats not doing anything else.  Hanging pouches off my back is stupid anyhow. 

(I once wanted one of those radio pouches that sort of attaches over your shoulder, so I could have a choke mic and it would ride back there out of the way.  Its cool factor was high!  After the 2nd or 3rd time I had to take my LBE off to change frequencies, turn the volume up, whatever, I threw a BS flag and started looking for a chest rig for my radios.  The function did not match the cool factor at all..)

So when I say "What do you need CIRAS for?" its sorta my gentle reminder that there are probably plenty of options out there for load carrying capabilities that do not need "faux armor" and are, in fact, better choices for functionality than "faux armor".......

I could be wrong. Kinda doubt it.

[Hawk200]

c) why blow $200+ on a replica CIRAS when a $35 Ranger Rack will do?

I've never worn a RACK, but I've seen more than a few of them. Now that I think about it, they'd probably be almost ideal.

And, as far as the original topic goes, they can be found in complimentary colors. Color isn't really a matter of trying to look "cool", just avoiding something that clashes and would look stupid.

[maverik]

honestly guys I asked a simple question and I don't need to get jumped with comments like "you're just trying to look cool." don't assume that because we all know what assuming does.  That being said I like PCs because of their feel and their usefullness now you guys say I don't need "body armor" PCs are not body armor they are plate carriers body armor are plates to go in the vests and you don't need plates for our work.  Also I like to stay current with gear because the militar's mission is turning more and more to an urban enviorment, now this includes getting in and out of vehicles which is in our work.  And why is saying I want a late carrier any different then saying I want  a  Fighting Load Carrier? And yes I have tried a RACK before and found that I donb't like how they are set up.Thank you all who gave the information I requested.

[Eclipse]

This is the wrong place to expect direct answers without the opinion filter on.   



What we who have some experience are trying to tell you is that its silly to blow $400+ on something which isn't even going to serve the purpose for which is was designed, when for a 10th of that you can get gear which actually suits the purpose for which you intend it.

For $400 you could outfit the whole team with SARmeds or ELBV's, including gear, and probably still have money left over for pizza (especially when I start thinking about all the pockets you're likely going to add).


^Stolen from a Stonewall post on CS^

[Hawk200]

honestly guys I asked a simple question and I don't need to get jumped with comments like "you're just trying to look cool." don't assume that because we all know what assuming does.

As the old line goes "methinks you doth protest too much". Do you really think that the folks here haven't seen this type of behaviour before? Majority of us have found that when cadets go buy high speed military gear, it's to look cool. You may be completely different, but you're not going to look like it.

That being said I like PCs because of their feel and their usefullness now you guys say I don't need "body armor" PCs are not body armor they are plate carriers body armor are plates to go in the vests and you don't need plates for our work. 

You're obviously not really familiar with combat gear. A large amount of the seniors here are current/prior military; and have been, are in, or going to be in a combat theater.

A CIRAS is a combination body army carrier (which uses a combination of soft panels and hard plates), and a load carrier. The newest body armor system that the military is using is very similar, and even looks much like a CIRAS.

Also I like to stay current with gear because the militar's mission is turning more and more to an urban enviorment, now this includes getting in and out of vehicles which is in our work. 

Staying "current" on gear doesn't really ring true. We have many seniors and cadets here that are using Vietnam era design ALICE gear, and are quite happy with it.

Second, getting out of vehicles with even just a base carrier is a royal pain in the 4th POC. I have direct experience with that. Many people here have direct experience with that. That's not even remotely viable as a justification.

And why is saying I want a late carrier any different then saying I want  a  Fighting Load Carrier?

A fighting load carrier is simply a load carrier. The military likes to add terms like "fighting", "assault", and "battle" to it's equipment. It's fundamentally different from a CIRAS. Don't equate things you aren't familiar with.

If you'd come in asking about an FLC, I doubt anyone would have said anything other than "Here's a few links to some good ones".

And yes I have tried a RACK before and found that I donb't like how they are set up.

You're learning what works for you. That's good. But not everything that works for you is going to be appropriate. The RACK would have been acceptable, it's low profile, and from what I've seen it doesn't present a problem getting out of vehicles as much as armor carriers. But if it doesn't work for you, there are other options.

Thank you all who gave the information I requested.

We all know what that means. "Thanks for your input, but I'm going to do it my own way." You were advised otherwise, but it is your choice to go buying whatever you wish. I'll keep an eye on eBay, I know a few people that wouldn't mind a CIRAS.

Food for thought: You may get to a mission site, and the IC may consider your gear inappropriate for the mission at hand due to it's appearance. The IC can't do much about that. He/she can keep you from going on sorties, or even send you home if he/she feels that there might be PR issues. And there won't be anything you can do about that. You won't stay very current if you're not doing those missions.

[maverik]

"You're learning what works for you. That's good. But not everything that works for you is going to be appropriate. The RACK would have been acceptable, it's low profile, and from what I've seen it doesn't present a problem getting out of vehicles as much as armor carriers. But if it doesn't work for you, there are other options."

Thank you. Oh BTW Bob on the FOB= WIN. BTW  What's a SARMED vest?

[Eclipse]

Thank you. Oh BTW Bob on the FOB= WIN. BTW  What's a SARMED vest?

The orange one in these threads...

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1071.msg13037#msg13037

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4589.msg90545#msg90545

Also, if you search "vests" you'll find about 10 different threads that have a bunch of better options than molle or a plate carrier - ISUHAWKEYE and a few others posted up several different high-vis, flexible solutions.

[maverik]

good for my comms duty but I'm not seeing field applications. (btw way elicpse I like to have extra money for pizza  )