Another OPS Quals Problem

[♠SARKID♠]

Help me out here.  I've done my reg reading and it seems to me that there is a glitch in OPS Quals as to when the 101T status is assigned to a members specialty.  I found this while trying to assign trainee status to one of my members for Planning Section Chief.  He has all of the prerequisites completed (GBD and MS) as well as having the appropriate squadron commander approval.  There are no familiarization and prep tasks.  He does not have all of the advanced training completed.  Still, according to CAPR 60-3 he is now at this point ready to receive his 101-T for this specialty; quoting -

CAPR 60-3 2-3. Specialty Rating Requirements and Performance Standards.
For each specialty rating, SQTRs have been developed to train and qualify members in stages. The most current versions of the task guides for all specialties are found on the NHQ CAP/DOS website.

a. First, prerequisites must be completed prior to initiating training requirements.

b. Once trainees have met the prerequisites, they will be required to complete familiarization and preparatory training for the specialty before serving in that position on actual or training missions under supervision. Familiarization and preparatory training is the minimum set of tasks that the member must master prior to acting as a supervised trainee on practice or actual missions. These tasks represent those skills that will keep the member safe and allow the member to function under supervision without jeopardizing the mission. This requirement avoids placing personnel not ready to perform certain jobs or those who work for them at risk.

c. Finally, after completing familiarization and preparatory training, supervised trainees must complete advanced training and participate satisfactorily in two missions before a CAPF 101 is approved and a member is considered "Qualified."...

Despite this, when I attempt to assign him as a trainee it kicks back saying that not all tasks have been completed.  Anecdotally trainee status is automatically assigned when all the advanced training is complete (when the only tasks uncompleted are the two missions) but it would seem this is incorrect and should happen long before then.  The rest of part C of the reg goes on to talk about finishing the advanced training on actual/training missions.  But they can't go on a mission without a 101-T and we arrive at a catch 22.  Am I missing something in the reg or is this just another yet to be fixed flop up in OPS Quals?

[coudano]

It's supposed to assign you as a trainee when you complete all the prereq, f&p
I have members in that status.

Completed Prereq, F&P yes, and they get the qual with a * on their card.
Even with none or partial complete on advanced, and none, some, or all misions.


My suspicion here is that because there are no f&p tasks,
the system never flags the condition that all f&p tasks are complete
...other sqtrs have a checkbox for commander certification that f&p are done, but not PSC...

i'd say there's your trouble.
You print off that sqtr showing partial completion and it should be sufficient to do missions.

[SarDragon]

EACH section of tasks must be validated by the Commander, and, IIRC, Fam & Prep must be completed, and validated, before anything else is done.

There is a Fam & Prep item on the SQTR - Complete NIIMS G193 or equivalent. This is cpmpleted and validated?

MS and GBD are complete, even if the MS is expired?

Don't have any other answers.

[coudano]

EACH section of tasks must be validated by the Commander, and, IIRC, Fam & Prep must be completed, and validated, before anything else is done.

Well, that's the intent of the system, and the instructions for how it's done in 60-3 but ops quals does take inputs outside of those parameters.
Including advanced training that crosses from another qual you already tasked that item off.
But you can enter data for advanced training, even if f&p aren't done.

The intent seems to be that you do the F&P before you go out on a training or actual sortie.
And that you do the advanced training *ON* the training or actual sortie.
However, a lot of SAR Academies, including NESA, teach all, including the advanced tasks in a non "mission sortie" environment, and the system does accommodate this.

There is a Fam & Prep item on the SQTR - Complete NIIMS G193 or equivalent. This is cpmpleted and validated?

Dave, i'm looking at mine right now in e-services and don't see any f&p
nims g193 doesnt show anywhere on the form...

planning section chief, right?

MS and GBD are complete, even if the MS is expired?

Also you only have to have MS -or- GBD (1 of 2 required)
and yes, it doesn't have to be current.




I'd also like to point out that there is no such thing as a 101T anymore...
You have a CAPF 101 that has a training designator on specialties that you are a trainee in...
and the SQTR to record qual training progress...

[Spaceman3750]

However, a lot of SAR Academies, including NESA, teach all, including the advanced tasks in a non "mission sortie" environment, and the system does accommodate this.

At NESA all tasks are uploaded in a single shot from PDAs anyways so I don't think OPSQUAL cares.

[SarDragon]

OK, I was referring to the paper SQTR. The Fam & Prep shows up there.

Also you only have to have MS -or- GBD (1 of 2 required)
and yes, it doesn't have to be current.

Pre reqs are: AOBD - Air Operations Branch Director or  GBD - Ground Branch Director

Note:

Personnel applying based on qualification as an Air Operations Branch Director requirement must at one time been qualified as a ground team or Urban DF team member. Personnel applying based on qualification as a Ground Branch Director must also be qualified as a mission scanner (need not be current).

[JeffDG]

OK, I was referring to the paper SQTR. The Fam & Prep shows up there.

Also you only have to have MS -or- GBD (1 of 2 required)
and yes, it doesn't have to be current.

Pre reqs are: AOBD - Air Operations Branch Director or  GBD - Ground Branch Director

Note:

Personnel applying based on qualification as an Air Operations Branch Director requirement must at one time been qualified as a ground team or Urban DF team member. Personnel applying based on qualification as a Ground Branch Director must also be qualified as a mission scanner (need not be current).

So, if you're an AOBD, do you need your UDF/GTM before you become a PSC trainee, or before you complete PSC? 

[Larry Mangum]

However, a lot of SAR Academies, including NESA, teach all, including the advanced tasks in a non "mission sortie" environment, and the system does accommodate this.

At NESA all tasks are uploaded in a single shot from PDAs anyways so I don't think OPSQUAL cares.

That is not true for ICSS. We enter each task individually.

[SarDragon]

OK, I was referring to the paper SQTR. The Fam & Prep shows up there.

Also you only have to have MS -or- GBD (1 of 2 required)
and yes, it doesn't have to be current.

Pre reqs are: AOBD - Air Operations Branch Director or  GBD - Ground Branch Director

Note:

Personnel applying based on qualification as an Air Operations Branch Director requirement must at one time been qualified as a ground team or Urban DF team member. Personnel applying based on qualification as a Ground Branch Director must also be qualified as a mission scanner (need not be current).

So, if you're an AOBD, do you need your UDF/GTM before you become a PSC trainee, or before you complete PSC?

My conservative guess would be the former, as highlighted.

YMMV.

[coudano]

Yep, I agree, it's a pre-requisite.
So you have to

A) Be an AOBD (currently) and be or have been a gt or udf.
or
b) Be a GOBD (currently) and be or have been a ms.

That's before you could do F&P tasks (if there are any)
...completion of which, is what makes you a trainee.



Not sure why G193 is on the printed sqtr, but not online.
My suspicion is that the printed docs are old, and out of date.
Looks to me like G193 is no longer a valid course, and is replaced and superseded by IS200.

IS200 *is* a requirement for PSC, under advanced training.

[♠SARKID♠]

I'd also like to point out that there is no such thing as a 101T anymore...
You have a CAPF 101 that has a training designator on specialties that you are a trainee in...
and the SQTR to record qual training progress...

Old terms die hard I guess 

I've sent a message off to the help desk so we'll see what happens.

[cap235629]

did you make sure that they had ICS300 completed? If it isn't it will keep kicking it back.  ICS 300 is a prereq for the training

[♠SARKID♠]

did you make sure that they had ICS300 completed? If it isn't it will keep kicking it back.  ICS 300 is a prereq for the training

Yep, it was just imputed on Monday.

[EMT-83]

Yep, it was just imputed on Monday.

That must be the problem...

Impute: "to attribute a usually undesirable action or event to somebody".

He was doomed from the start.   

[♠SARKID♠]

*head-desk*

Hookt on foniks workt for mee.

[ßτε]

did you make sure that they had ICS300 completed? If it isn't it will keep kicking it back.  ICS 300 is a prereq for the training

Yep, it was just imputed on Monday.

Was it also validated on Monday?

Also, ICS 300 is required for GBD standard. If ICS 300 was input on Monday, has GBD been approved a wing yet?

[♠SARKID♠]

There's nothing on the pending approvals/validations report for my squadron, and if I'm not mistaken the ICS-300 was inputted by the wing ES officer so it should have been approved right then.  He is also a fully qualified GBD, and has been for some time, so I know that ICS-300 is in and validated for him.